ScoobySport or HKS Down pipe
29 January 2001, 02:12 PM
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As the title says
Which down pipe is best ??
ScoobySport or HKS ??
I currently have the full HKS Hiper Drain pipe exhaust system and want to get a good down pipe.
Cheers in advance.
Barge.
Which down pipe is best ??
ScoobySport or HKS ??
I currently have the full HKS Hiper Drain pipe exhaust system and want to get a good down pipe.
Cheers in advance.
Barge.
29 January 2001, 05:22 PM
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Hi barge,
Although I have no experience with HKS stuff, I run a full ScoobySport system and downpipe.
They are both great systems but SS is designed for mid range torque and HKS, I believe, top end.
One thing you need to remember. Scooby Sport will have built their system to compliment the downpipe as have HKS.
Unless you can rolling road the two it may be better to stick to one manufacturer.
Although I have no experience with HKS stuff, I run a full ScoobySport system and downpipe.
They are both great systems but SS is designed for mid range torque and HKS, I believe, top end.
One thing you need to remember. Scooby Sport will have built their system to compliment the downpipe as have HKS.
Unless you can rolling road the two it may be better to stick to one manufacturer.
29 January 2001, 08:29 PM
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i had ss backbox on my uk my00. today i had hks downpipe and magnex centre fitted. the difference is brilliant! fantastic noise, and the car feels MUCH quicker! i read a lot of posts before i went ahead, and everyone seems to have conflicting views as to how diameters affect low down torque etc etc. personally, the stuff i had put on today is top notch quality, fitted by a great local firm ( dragon autos, colchester) highly recommended!
30 January 2001, 10:10 PM
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HKS donwpipe does nothing else but eliminates the cat and is very loud indeed. ScoobySport downpipe eliminates the car and also improves the spooling of the turbo and a number of other aspects of your turbo's and engine's performance. Another advantage: it is not too expensive.
Depending on how far the tuning expedition on your car has gone, there are other, more expensive and superior in performance solutions, but SS downpipe is, in my view, by far the best allround product of the kind.
q.
Depending on how far the tuning expedition on your car has gone, there are other, more expensive and superior in performance solutions, but SS downpipe is, in my view, by far the best allround product of the kind.
q.
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31 January 2001, 09:28 PM
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quattro
i cant compare ss downpipe with mine because i've never had a ss downpipe before. however, the people who work on my car said i could have had any downpipe i liked, but strongly recommended hks because they genuinely believe nothing compares in terms of quality for the price.
as for noise, hell yeah!! sounds brilliant, and my car feels a LOT quicker.
i dont know enough about mechanics to get into a "my exhaust is better than yours" argument, but the guy was asking about hks stuff, so i can only give my experience. i do have a ss backbox, with a magnex centre, and it all fits fine.
hope u find the exhaust u like..good luck
i cant compare ss downpipe with mine because i've never had a ss downpipe before. however, the people who work on my car said i could have had any downpipe i liked, but strongly recommended hks because they genuinely believe nothing compares in terms of quality for the price.
as for noise, hell yeah!! sounds brilliant, and my car feels a LOT quicker.
i dont know enough about mechanics to get into a "my exhaust is better than yours" argument, but the guy was asking about hks stuff, so i can only give my experience. i do have a ss backbox, with a magnex centre, and it all fits fine.
hope u find the exhaust u like..good luck
01 February 2001, 07:37 PM
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I have had the PE T75 downpipe with SS backbox I now have SS downpipe with HKS Hiper center and rear end. Can I tell the differance to be honest, No. But as the SS downpipe was much much cheaper I would go for that.
01 February 2001, 10:22 PM
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spudgun
Thanks for your good luck wishes, but I have already found the exhaust which works as I (and a number of similar souls) feel does the job almost ideally. Incidentally, it does not use either the HKS or SS downpipe.
I wish people working on your car would be right and life around downpipes and other parts of the exhaust system would be as simple.
good luck to you - you still need to choose something
regards
q.
Thanks for your good luck wishes, but I have already found the exhaust which works as I (and a number of similar souls) feel does the job almost ideally. Incidentally, it does not use either the HKS or SS downpipe.
I wish people working on your car would be right and life around downpipes and other parts of the exhaust system would be as simple.
good luck to you - you still need to choose something
regards
q.
02 February 2001, 08:42 PM
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i meant good luck to the guy asking the question, not you. i dont think i'm an expert at anything mechanical, hence i spend a lot of time on this bbs trying to learn. i can only reiterate my point in that i was guided by people who work on performance cars for a living, who have always guided me in the right direction. only a few days before my hks downpipe was installed, another scooby owner had the ss downpipe removed from her car and replaced with a hks one, at the same place i get my work done. i dont know why, but she didnt like the ss one.it is not the first time this place has done this, but each to their own. 
[This message has been edited by spudgun (edited 02 February 2001).]
[This message has been edited by spudgun (edited 02 February 2001).]
02 February 2001, 08:59 PM
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...and BTW running full SS system from cat back - first thing everybody non-Scooby owning says is "your exhaust is really loud"; first thing every Scoob owner (and EVO6 owners) say is "that's the best sounding Impreza exhaust I have heard" 
02 February 2001, 09:56 PM
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Ok, here is what you wanted to know:
1)Why SS downpipe? Simply because it is cheap and the most versatile and rewarding product of the kind for all those who do NOT want to move boundaries of their tuning further than some basic useful things. So, for as long as you keep the original turbo, ecu, air filter and the rest of the exhaust ( or similar to standard - which most are anyway) this pipe will bring noticeable improvements in spooling of the turbo, low and mid torque and sensitivity of the throttle response.
2)Let's make sure we remember we are talking about the downpipes, NOT the whole exhaust. So, do not expect any real improvements (apart from struggle of the engine and noise) if big bore midsections and backboxes are fitted to the standard engine, ecu, air flow system. It is simply not possible! Deleting the cat and bending the pipe a little bit differently helps,but cannot transform a car!!
3) Whether you like it or not, for any further games around downpipes and exhaust, as well as air intake part of the system, you need to bring the engine/turbo assembly to a level where there will actually be some REAL benefit from bigger pipes and more noise. The main and most important step here is that your engine needs to be re-mapped with one of the many available solutions for that process (chips, piggybacks, fully programmable ecus - I am listing them all simply to avoid being called biased, but everyone knows which is the ONLY proper solution here). Without a re-mapped engine, it is a total waste of time and money to use better (bigger) turbos, exhausts, intercoolers, induction kits, etc. etc. Not to mention "internal games".
3) If you, however, decide to embark on the tuning trip seriously, more sophisticated and more performance-yielding parts can be considered. But, that costs money and real performance does not come either cheap or for free. This is why I think it is crucial that once and for all we all understand that unless tuning products are put into the context of what can objectively be achieved and a PROPER BALANCE of applied components is applied, the whole system (i.e. your precious car with its components) will only be as good as the weakest link of that system. That means hundreds and thousands of pounds wasted for close to nothing.
Finally, it is a shame that the dialogue has (again) reached the point of "superior vs inferior beings syndrome". Incidentally, only those who have voluntarily decided to feel inferior notice the "presence of the superior" - no one else, really. Further, my exhaust system is not "dogs bollocks" (it is actually made out of mild steel with high performance ceramic coating) and costs a little bit more than £5. I don't really think my own car's specification is of much interest here because I have been silly enough to push it much further than any sensible person would do.
I hope this horribly long story might generate some healthy thinking. If not, my profound apologies for wasting everyone's time. Always try to help.
regards
q.
PS "Muppets" - what is that? Must be something I am doing?
PPS. No need for anyon to agree with my thoughts, of course.
[This message has been edited by quattro (edited 02 February 2001).]
1)Why SS downpipe? Simply because it is cheap and the most versatile and rewarding product of the kind for all those who do NOT want to move boundaries of their tuning further than some basic useful things. So, for as long as you keep the original turbo, ecu, air filter and the rest of the exhaust ( or similar to standard - which most are anyway) this pipe will bring noticeable improvements in spooling of the turbo, low and mid torque and sensitivity of the throttle response.
2)Let's make sure we remember we are talking about the downpipes, NOT the whole exhaust. So, do not expect any real improvements (apart from struggle of the engine and noise) if big bore midsections and backboxes are fitted to the standard engine, ecu, air flow system. It is simply not possible! Deleting the cat and bending the pipe a little bit differently helps,but cannot transform a car!!
3) Whether you like it or not, for any further games around downpipes and exhaust, as well as air intake part of the system, you need to bring the engine/turbo assembly to a level where there will actually be some REAL benefit from bigger pipes and more noise. The main and most important step here is that your engine needs to be re-mapped with one of the many available solutions for that process (chips, piggybacks, fully programmable ecus - I am listing them all simply to avoid being called biased, but everyone knows which is the ONLY proper solution here). Without a re-mapped engine, it is a total waste of time and money to use better (bigger) turbos, exhausts, intercoolers, induction kits, etc. etc. Not to mention "internal games".
3) If you, however, decide to embark on the tuning trip seriously, more sophisticated and more performance-yielding parts can be considered. But, that costs money and real performance does not come either cheap or for free. This is why I think it is crucial that once and for all we all understand that unless tuning products are put into the context of what can objectively be achieved and a PROPER BALANCE of applied components is applied, the whole system (i.e. your precious car with its components) will only be as good as the weakest link of that system. That means hundreds and thousands of pounds wasted for close to nothing.
Finally, it is a shame that the dialogue has (again) reached the point of "superior vs inferior beings syndrome". Incidentally, only those who have voluntarily decided to feel inferior notice the "presence of the superior" - no one else, really. Further, my exhaust system is not "dogs bollocks" (it is actually made out of mild steel with high performance ceramic coating) and costs a little bit more than £5. I don't really think my own car's specification is of much interest here because I have been silly enough to push it much further than any sensible person would do.
I hope this horribly long story might generate some healthy thinking. If not, my profound apologies for wasting everyone's time. Always try to help.
regards
q.
PS "Muppets" - what is that? Must be something I am doing?
PPS. No need for anyon to agree with my thoughts, of course.
[This message has been edited by quattro (edited 02 February 2001).]
02 February 2001, 10:32 PM
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May I humbly disagree on one point.I've recently removed a HKS SuperDrager from my car(because the noise was too loud for me) and now realise how much difference it made.This is especially true at top end.At 60 mph I'm having to drop down to 4th to get mental acceleration whereas before the extra torque meant I did'nt have to.I'm probably going to refit the exhaust and try one of these 'bungs' to make it quieter.It's also interesting that the the benefit of this part was easier to appreciate in retrospect than when I actually had it fitted.(SS downpipe remained throughout)
02 February 2001, 10:40 PM
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quattro
firstly, i edited my previous post because i felt it was a little unfair, perhaps i misinterpreted your post/ comments.
secondly, in the technical knowledge department, i am a novice, ive never claimed to be anything else. thats why i spend so much time on this bbs, i'm trying to learn.
i can afford any downpipe i like, but the workshop who did my downpipe strongly recommended hks, as they GENUINELY believe nothing compares at that price. obviously there are many different products offered by various companies, but it was hks they recommended. as a say, i wouldnt know a downpipe from a drainpipe, so when people i trust, and who i regard as being knowledgeable in this field ( unlike me) recommend a certain product, then i will go with that advice. i'm interested in getting a ppp, but my dealer tells me it isnt worth the money...yet i read posts all the time from people who are overjoyed with it, others who rate link etc etc. who is a novice to believe? especially when theres hard earned cash involved. dealers/workshops or owners, who may not be fully knowledgeable ( and no, i dont mean you, i mean me)
we have people all the time on this bbs telling us one thing, others the opposite. who is the novice to believe? and if a novice goes with something that you wouldnt choose, does it make it a wrong decision?
all i can say, as someone trying to learn all he can about this great car, is my hks downpipe is loud, but has definately improved the all round performance of the car, and its good quality.
firstly, i edited my previous post because i felt it was a little unfair, perhaps i misinterpreted your post/ comments.
secondly, in the technical knowledge department, i am a novice, ive never claimed to be anything else. thats why i spend so much time on this bbs, i'm trying to learn.
i can afford any downpipe i like, but the workshop who did my downpipe strongly recommended hks, as they GENUINELY believe nothing compares at that price. obviously there are many different products offered by various companies, but it was hks they recommended. as a say, i wouldnt know a downpipe from a drainpipe, so when people i trust, and who i regard as being knowledgeable in this field ( unlike me) recommend a certain product, then i will go with that advice. i'm interested in getting a ppp, but my dealer tells me it isnt worth the money...yet i read posts all the time from people who are overjoyed with it, others who rate link etc etc. who is a novice to believe? especially when theres hard earned cash involved. dealers/workshops or owners, who may not be fully knowledgeable ( and no, i dont mean you, i mean me)
we have people all the time on this bbs telling us one thing, others the opposite. who is the novice to believe? and if a novice goes with something that you wouldnt choose, does it make it a wrong decision?
all i can say, as someone trying to learn all he can about this great car, is my hks downpipe is loud, but has definately improved the all round performance of the car, and its good quality.
02 February 2001, 10:41 PM
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Ecellent points indeed!
What Deep Singh mentions is exactly what happens when larger bore exhaust is used - TOP END benefits and everything else suffers. I am happy to accept some people live at the top end of the scale. Also, I would like to add that UK/Euro cars suffer from large bore exhausts and liberated airways at low and mid parts of the rpm band much more than WRXs and STIs due to higher gearing and much less power.
spudgun
all points taken and there is nothing wrong with themn at all. I hope that my long post and constructive opinions to follow will be of some help to you and some others. There will always be "some people saying this and some that". Given time is not too difficult to judge who makes more or less sense. We all learn from occasional mistakes. Thankfully, what we are discussing here is far from as complicated as it can get.
q.
[This message has been edited by quattro (edited 02 February 2001).]
What Deep Singh mentions is exactly what happens when larger bore exhaust is used - TOP END benefits and everything else suffers. I am happy to accept some people live at the top end of the scale. Also, I would like to add that UK/Euro cars suffer from large bore exhausts and liberated airways at low and mid parts of the rpm band much more than WRXs and STIs due to higher gearing and much less power.
spudgun
all points taken and there is nothing wrong with themn at all. I hope that my long post and constructive opinions to follow will be of some help to you and some others. There will always be "some people saying this and some that". Given time is not too difficult to judge who makes more or less sense. We all learn from occasional mistakes. Thankfully, what we are discussing here is far from as complicated as it can get.
q.
[This message has been edited by quattro (edited 02 February 2001).]
02 February 2001, 11:06 PM
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here we go again....
if an expert advises you to fit an hks downpipe...is this a mistake??this may be a relatively simple subject to someone with a modicum of technical knowledge, but if they don't ( like me)then it can be baffling with so many conflicting opinions. barge had responses from people who had ss downpipe, and most people seem to have one, so i thought i may help by letting him know what my car was like after getting the hks downpipe was fitted, even if i dont have the benefit of having both systems fitted at some point on my car.as i say, and i aint gonna rubbish someones product on this bbs, the workshop STRONGLY recommended hks.
if an expert advises you to fit an hks downpipe...is this a mistake??this may be a relatively simple subject to someone with a modicum of technical knowledge, but if they don't ( like me)then it can be baffling with so many conflicting opinions. barge had responses from people who had ss downpipe, and most people seem to have one, so i thought i may help by letting him know what my car was like after getting the hks downpipe was fitted, even if i dont have the benefit of having both systems fitted at some point on my car.as i say, and i aint gonna rubbish someones product on this bbs, the workshop STRONGLY recommended hks.
04 February 2001, 07:19 PM
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barge
had the decat for a week now, and performance is great, but if i did a lot of motorway miles ( which i don't), then the noise might be a bit much! maybe try before you buy, to see if you think the noise levels are ok. mine has magnex centre section with resonator, but it is loud! its fun on short blasts ( which is what i do), but for miles and miles everyday? hmmm....
had the decat for a week now, and performance is great, but if i did a lot of motorway miles ( which i don't), then the noise might be a bit much! maybe try before you buy, to see if you think the noise levels are ok. mine has magnex centre section with resonator, but it is loud! its fun on short blasts ( which is what i do), but for miles and miles everyday? hmmm....
05 February 2001, 08:16 AM
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I've just bought an SS downpipe - my investigations revealed the following rumour, opinion and gossip.......and perhaps lies...who knows!
Any catless downpipe gives benefits over the OE cat'ed item.
Any of the downpipes which blank off the wastegate outlet are not extracting maximum potential.
Twin dump systems give the best overall gains - albeit higher up the rev range.
I chose the SS item 'cos it's got the wide opening to allow wastegate gases through easier and improves things in the mid-range more than the top-end.
I've a mildly modified Euro car (PPP), so it fits nicely into the scheme of things
Regards
Richard
Any catless downpipe gives benefits over the OE cat'ed item.
Any of the downpipes which blank off the wastegate outlet are not extracting maximum potential.
Twin dump systems give the best overall gains - albeit higher up the rev range.
I chose the SS item 'cos it's got the wide opening to allow wastegate gases through easier and improves things in the mid-range more than the top-end.
I've a mildly modified Euro car (PPP), so it fits nicely into the scheme of things
Regards
Richard
05 February 2001, 03:04 PM
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Dowser,
I miss my SS Downpipe quite a bit, having had the whole SS exhaust system at one point and taking it off due to noise complaints.
I was thinking of putting a SS downpipe back on, to compliment my PPP (backbox and midsection?)
Anyway, the question I wanted to ask was - did you have any trouble connecting the SS downpipe to the centre-section ? I ask as I've approached my Subaru dealer and he reckons its quite a hassle as he'll need some type of adapter to get the 2 components together. Is this correct ?
Also, does it cause much extra noise inside the car ? (my full SS system was noisy in comparison to my PPP'd MY99 car)
DV
I miss my SS Downpipe quite a bit, having had the whole SS exhaust system at one point and taking it off due to noise complaints.
I was thinking of putting a SS downpipe back on, to compliment my PPP (backbox and midsection?)
Anyway, the question I wanted to ask was - did you have any trouble connecting the SS downpipe to the centre-section ? I ask as I've approached my Subaru dealer and he reckons its quite a hassle as he'll need some type of adapter to get the 2 components together. Is this correct ?
Also, does it cause much extra noise inside the car ? (my full SS system was noisy in comparison to my PPP'd MY99 car)
DV
06 February 2001, 08:08 AM
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DazV
Haven't fitted it yet! But there should be no problems - the SS downpipe will mate to the OE mid....which is the same as the PPP mid's connection. Your dealer just wants to charge you more!
Let you know for sure on Friday
Richard
Haven't fitted it yet! But there should be no problems - the SS downpipe will mate to the OE mid....which is the same as the PPP mid's connection. Your dealer just wants to charge you more!
Let you know for sure on Friday
Richard
06 February 2001, 09:51 PM
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barge
listen to quattro, he knows his stuff! ( just realised who he is..oops!)
i'm getting a ppp soon,( only coz i've got just under 3 years warranty left otherwise i'd choose link or unichip) and wondered if i could put my decatted full exhaust back on i.e replacing the prodrive exhaust. will my car work ok, and will it give me more power?
so in effect i'll just be using their chip.
thanks for the help, especially quattro
listen to quattro, he knows his stuff! ( just realised who he is..oops!)
i'm getting a ppp soon,( only coz i've got just under 3 years warranty left otherwise i'd choose link or unichip) and wondered if i could put my decatted full exhaust back on i.e replacing the prodrive exhaust. will my car work ok, and will it give me more power?
so in effect i'll just be using their chip.
thanks for the help, especially quattro
06 February 2001, 10:41 PM
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spudgun
pleasure to be of service, but don't get carried away - never too late to change your opinion. (hopefully not).
Do not let the warranty terms prevent you from choosing a programmable ecu (Unichip, Link, etc.). Any of them will be cheaper and considerably superior to the PPP (unless you buy it dirt cheap second-hand). I am not sure how it is done with the Unichip, but complete replacement programmable ecus can be swapped in a matter of minutes and your standard JECS ecu can be under the kickplate whenever it needs to be.
think about it before making a decision. If properly mapped, your engine will only be safer with other ecus than with the fixed map PPP JECS.
Just a thought for your consideration. Have fun, whatever you do.
q.
pleasure to be of service, but don't get carried away - never too late to change your opinion. (hopefully not).
Do not let the warranty terms prevent you from choosing a programmable ecu (Unichip, Link, etc.). Any of them will be cheaper and considerably superior to the PPP (unless you buy it dirt cheap second-hand). I am not sure how it is done with the Unichip, but complete replacement programmable ecus can be swapped in a matter of minutes and your standard JECS ecu can be under the kickplate whenever it needs to be.
think about it before making a decision. If properly mapped, your engine will only be safer with other ecus than with the fixed map PPP JECS.
Just a thought for your consideration. Have fun, whatever you do.
q.
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