PPP..again
19 January 2001, 07:53 PM
#1
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Have any MY99/MY00 PPP owners got regrets about it's price v performance ?
Also, how does the PPP engine/exhaust note differ to a MY99 with SS backbox ?
Cheers
Pete
Also, how does the PPP engine/exhaust note differ to a MY99 with SS backbox ?
Cheers
Pete
19 January 2001, 08:50 PM
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Hi Mr P. Got a PPP on my MY00 UK car. Had it fitted around 5,000 miles after a back to back demo of my standard car against Lister's ProDrive demonstrator. The difference is incredible (I only hope ProDrive can do the same for the new-age Impreza).
It ain't cheap, but it's so easy. Just book it into your local dealer, pay bill, car transformed, warranty intact.
If you've got a newish car, that warranty is important. It also explains some of the PPP's performance characteristics. The ECU works the turbo hard at low revs, which is where you want the poke in everyday driving, and makes the most of the smaller, more responsive turbo.
It also knocks it off at the top end, making it pointless to rev the nuts off it. Hence reliability and Subaru's willingness to honour the full warranty. ProDrive are smarter than many people on this board give them credit for.
In fact, if you compare the dyno traces on the dozens of cars tested on this web site, a UK car with PPP produces more power than an STi up to 5,000 rpm. On track days, I can keep up with STi's and P1's in a straight line (and with AP brakes and slicks, they don't stand a chance round the corners
).
Having said all that, if warranty isn't such a big deal and you're prepared to put the time in, get a Link ECU from Bob Rawle, tell hime what you want and then do as you're told. You could end up with an even better car, with some money left over for that brake upgrade you'll be needing.
Hoppy
It ain't cheap, but it's so easy. Just book it into your local dealer, pay bill, car transformed, warranty intact.
If you've got a newish car, that warranty is important. It also explains some of the PPP's performance characteristics. The ECU works the turbo hard at low revs, which is where you want the poke in everyday driving, and makes the most of the smaller, more responsive turbo.
It also knocks it off at the top end, making it pointless to rev the nuts off it. Hence reliability and Subaru's willingness to honour the full warranty. ProDrive are smarter than many people on this board give them credit for.
In fact, if you compare the dyno traces on the dozens of cars tested on this web site, a UK car with PPP produces more power than an STi up to 5,000 rpm. On track days, I can keep up with STi's and P1's in a straight line (and with AP brakes and slicks, they don't stand a chance round the corners
).Having said all that, if warranty isn't such a big deal and you're prepared to put the time in, get a Link ECU from Bob Rawle, tell hime what you want and then do as you're told. You could end up with an even better car, with some money left over for that brake upgrade you'll be needing.
Hoppy
19 January 2001, 08:55 PM
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Pete, just re-read your question. Do you want noise or performance?
If it's the former, the ScoobySport back box (or any other for that matter) will probably do the trick at a fraction of the cost. It will sound a lot faster, even though it isn't.
Hoppy
If it's the former, the ScoobySport back box (or any other for that matter) will probably do the trick at a fraction of the cost. It will sound a lot faster, even though it isn't.
Hoppy
19 January 2001, 09:46 PM
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get the ppp and a scoobysport downpipe.
It's expensive, but the combination of the 2 is mind blowing. I've had the downpipe fitted for 4 days now and haven't bothered to put the front on the stereo!
I need to upgrade my brakes tho'
It's expensive, but the combination of the 2 is mind blowing. I've had the downpipe fitted for 4 days now and haven't bothered to put the front on the stereo!
I need to upgrade my brakes tho'
20 January 2001, 09:35 AM
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Peter,
Got my car back from Prodrive yesterday and no regrets at all.
Noticeabley more rapid than standard car. I have driven P1 and STI6 and PPP seems just as fast. (Prodrive reckon 250ish on torque and power in practice.)
Exhaust tone is quieter than Scoobysport item but much more fruity than standard car, but sounds terrific under accelaration. Exhaust looks great (9cm round item) + has discreet ( but so cool ) Prodrive logo. Car sounds like a Prodrive exhausted P1 e.g nice.
Overall I think this is the mod to have ( especially if you are not mechanically minded.) The end product is fast, makes the right noise, is tastefully subtle, preserves the warranty and has that Prodrive pedigree.
Only downer, based on 0.5 of a day withh PPP so far is that I get the impression the extra performance may be a bit much for the standard tyre,brakes suspension settings. I even managed to spin wheels whilst on the move!
Go for it.
Ed
[This message has been edited by EdwardH (edited 20 January 2001).]
[This message has been edited by EdwardH (edited 20 January 2001).]
Got my car back from Prodrive yesterday and no regrets at all.
Noticeabley more rapid than standard car. I have driven P1 and STI6 and PPP seems just as fast. (Prodrive reckon 250ish on torque and power in practice.)
Exhaust tone is quieter than Scoobysport item but much more fruity than standard car, but sounds terrific under accelaration. Exhaust looks great (9cm round item) + has discreet ( but so cool ) Prodrive logo. Car sounds like a Prodrive exhausted P1 e.g nice.
Overall I think this is the mod to have ( especially if you are not mechanically minded.) The end product is fast, makes the right noise, is tastefully subtle, preserves the warranty and has that Prodrive pedigree.
Only downer, based on 0.5 of a day withh PPP so far is that I get the impression the extra performance may be a bit much for the standard tyre,brakes suspension settings. I even managed to spin wheels whilst on the move!
Go for it.
Ed
[This message has been edited by EdwardH (edited 20 January 2001).]
[This message has been edited by EdwardH (edited 20 January 2001).]
20 January 2001, 01:07 PM
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Thanks Happy, Fosters, and Edward 
Thats what I was hoping to hear.
Happy, I've already got a SS backbox + ITG + resonator box removed....but of course I want more
I'm taking a PPP for a test drive on Monday....and if the difference is a great as you've all said I'll get it
I really want more low/midrange torque...which is what Happy says the PPP gives.
Still got about 1.5 years of warranty remaining on my MY99 so the Link/Unichip is not an option for me really.
Now...just got to find out how much my insurance increases....
Ah..one more question....
Does the PPP ECU sort out the annoying 2nd gear boost cut problem ?
Thanks
Pete
Thats what I was hoping to hear.
Happy, I've already got a SS backbox + ITG + resonator box removed....but of course I want more
I'm taking a PPP for a test drive on Monday....and if the difference is a great as you've all said I'll get it
I really want more low/midrange torque...which is what Happy says the PPP gives.
Still got about 1.5 years of warranty remaining on my MY99 so the Link/Unichip is not an option for me really.
Now...just got to find out how much my insurance increases....
Ah..one more question....
Does the PPP ECU sort out the annoying 2nd gear boost cut problem ?
Thanks
Pete
20 January 2001, 01:36 PM
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Just phoned up my insurance company, Bell Direct.
They will not insure me if I have this PPP mod
Who is everyone else insured with, and how much did the PPP increase their insurance ?
P!ssed off Pete
They will not insure me if I have this PPP mod
Who is everyone else insured with, and how much did the PPP increase their insurance ?
P!ssed off Pete
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20 January 2001, 02:45 PM
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Pete, I've been called HOppy all my life, but very rarely HAppy ! Or can I call you Snow White LOL.
Click on the dyno link at the top of the page and there I think you'll find that a UK car with PPP is actually faster than an STi most of the time. If you've got a week to spare, print out all the graphs and compare.
But, sad sod that I am, here are a couple of shortcuts, comparing PPP 99MY UK cars, with and without down-pipe, and a couple of pokey STiVs. Go to
! Or can I call you Snow White LOL.Click on the dyno link at the top of the page and there I think you'll find that a UK car with PPP is actually faster than an STi most of the time. If you've got a week to spare, print out all the graphs and compare.
But, sad sod that I am, here are a couple of shortcuts, comparing PPP 99MY UK cars, with and without down-pipe, and a couple of pokey STiVs. Go to
20 January 2001, 03:48 PM
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Sorry hOppy
Its this cheap SANY manitar yau knaw
Looks like all bets are now off
My insurance company BellDirect will not insure a PPP
Who would you recommend....I might be tempted to switch company.
...And I was so sold on the PPP mod as well
Still going for the testdrive though....just to see what I'm missing.
Its this cheap SANY manitar yau knaw
Looks like all bets are now off
My insurance company BellDirect will not insure a PPP
Who would you recommend....I might be tempted to switch company.
...And I was so sold on the PPP mod as well
Still going for the testdrive though....just to see what I'm missing.
20 January 2001, 04:54 PM
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Pete, can't help on the insurance front - company motor. My company is effectively it's own insurance company - I've got a £100,000 excess! And it's a lease car and when they found out what I'd done to it (though some gobby prat fitting new tyres) they went ballistic! There's lots of help in the insurance section, though.
You mentioned that 2nd gear flat spot? I can't say I've ever experienced it and it certainly isn't a feature of the PPP. Didn't Pete Croney post recently that it was manufactured into the ECU so the cars passed the noise test? I think he said all car's standard ECU are tweaked in one way or another to get by this problem.
Hoppy
You mentioned that 2nd gear flat spot? I can't say I've ever experienced it and it certainly isn't a feature of the PPP. Didn't Pete Croney post recently that it was manufactured into the ECU so the cars passed the noise test? I think he said all car's standard ECU are tweaked in one way or another to get by this problem.
Hoppy
20 January 2001, 07:44 PM
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I read Pete's ECU post Hoppy but was wondering if Prodrive had engineered that 'feature' out of the PPP, just like they engineered the center cat out of the PPP exhaust
LOL Hoppy....if thats the excess, whats the premium
Pete
LOL Hoppy....if thats the excess, whats the premium
Pete
20 January 2001, 10:20 PM
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I'm with privilige
30yrs old, full protected NCD, MY00+PPP+SS DP+Prodrive driving enhancement pack (gold 17s and wrc rear wing - had to declare it!) was £1100
NFU can do the same for £921 - I phoned them last week!
30yrs old, full protected NCD, MY00+PPP+SS DP+Prodrive driving enhancement pack (gold 17s and wrc rear wing - had to declare it!) was £1100
NFU can do the same for £921 - I phoned them last week!
22 January 2001, 08:28 AM
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MY99 PPP and not a single regret. The only people that I have heard critizising the PPP are those that haven't had it done, or usually driven it
Insurance wise, Privilidge wanted £1800
I'm 28yrs, MY99+ppp+dp+induction kit+brake upgrade+strut brace+17" gold wheels wheels (which increase ins gp by 1 gp ) 6 points, 4 yrs NCB. Pay £925 with NU through OPI (NU direct were £2000+!!)
Insurance wise, Privilidge wanted £1800
I'm 28yrs, MY99+ppp+dp+induction kit+brake upgrade+strut brace+17" gold wheels wheels (which increase ins gp by 1 gp ) 6 points, 4 yrs NCB. Pay £925 with NU through OPI (NU direct were £2000+!!)
22 January 2001, 08:01 PM
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We're with Privilege - £1200 fully comp.
Driver 1 - wife,27 years old,5 years NCB, no claims or convs last 3 years
Driver 2 - me, 30 years old, 1 no fault claim, no convs last 3 years
Car kept on drive, East London post code(ouch!)
I moved from AXA who wouldn't do mods. Privilege quote £400 less than AXA renewal price for standard car!!!!!
Ed
Driver 1 - wife,27 years old,5 years NCB, no claims or convs last 3 years
Driver 2 - me, 30 years old, 1 no fault claim, no convs last 3 years
Car kept on drive, East London post code(ouch!)
I moved from AXA who wouldn't do mods. Privilege quote £400 less than AXA renewal price for standard car!!!!!
Ed
22 January 2001, 09:01 PM
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Went for my test drive today...in a MY00 PPP
It is quicker than mine....but not by £2000
Actually, I think the problem is it only had 1600 miles on the clock
I'm sure my MY99 car is still loosening up (15k) so I expect this was not a good demonstration of the PPP
Got the Subaru guy to do a 'fly by' for me and it does sound the business..more of an aggressive/rally edge to it than my SS box which just sounds like a TVR
The cabin noise is less than with SS box...until full throttle and then it sounds like there is no rear box
Any thoughts guys?
Was this 1600 mile engine holding the PPP back ?
Hmmm...still deciding on this.
Pete
It is quicker than mine....but not by £2000
Actually, I think the problem is it only had 1600 miles on the clock
I'm sure my MY99 car is still loosening up (15k) so I expect this was not a good demonstration of the PPP
Got the Subaru guy to do a 'fly by' for me and it does sound the business..more of an aggressive/rally edge to it than my SS box which just sounds like a TVR
The cabin noise is less than with SS box...until full throttle and then it sounds like there is no rear box
Any thoughts guys?
Was this 1600 mile engine holding the PPP back ?
Hmmm...still deciding on this.
Pete
22 January 2001, 10:14 PM
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This is the voice of your conscience speaking.....
Buy the PPP, then you can let me have a go in it and see what it is like
It'll still get your favourite slogans written in the muck and grime
Buy the PPP, then you can let me have a go in it and see what it is like
It'll still get your favourite slogans written in the muck and grime
23 January 2001, 08:34 AM
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Peter - best thing is to go to a meet/track day and blag a ride in a suitable steed!
MY99 PPP + toys and on track at Oulton Park this Saturday!! Mine did loosen up noticably for the first 6/7000 miles or so.
MY99 PPP + toys
and on track at Oulton Park this Saturday!! Mine did loosen up noticably for the first 6/7000 miles or so.
23 January 2001, 12:43 PM
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When I had a brand new engine fitted to CK1 it felt no slower at all. I'm sure they do lossen up a bit, but I don't think it's that noticeable.
Bear in mind the official PPP still has cats in. Mine doesn't.....
I'll will be doing a comparitive run at PE soon to see if I can break the mould on the poor performing MY98 PPP'd cars.
Stef.
Bear in mind the official PPP still has cats in. Mine doesn't.....
I'll will be doing a comparitive run at PE soon to see if I can break the mould on the poor performing MY98 PPP'd cars.
Stef.
25 January 2001, 12:21 PM
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David.
I was going to do a single run, although I begrudge paying £40 for a power run, which is one of the reasons I don't think there'll be any more 'meets' there. Every other rr I know charges £25 for a power run and £45 for an hours setup.
Stef.
I was going to do a single run, although I begrudge paying £40 for a power run, which is one of the reasons I don't think there'll be any more 'meets' there. Every other rr I know charges £25 for a power run and £45 for an hours setup.
Stef.
25 January 2001, 12:23 PM
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Peter P, I just cannot believe that you were not bowled over by the PPP equipped car! I don't care how many miles it had done. When I tried standard and PPP equiped cars side by side, the ProdDrive Performance Packed car just ripped the **** off my standard motor. It was night and day!
GTJ, following your comment I've jst spend a happy half hour trying to get my UK00 car with PPP to find the mysterious 2nd gear flat spot. Couldn't find any problems.
As I understand it, the problem occurs when you're cruising round a roundabout with a bazzed up Nova on your tail. You slip it into second and hold it around 3,500 rpm until your exit appears and then floor it. Nothing happens, right?
Well, my car just flew off as usual and by the time I was up the slip round and joining the dual-carriageway I was doing well over 100mph (or I would have been officer, had I not backed off to a steady 69mph).
Hoppy
GTJ, following your comment I've jst spend a happy half hour trying to get my UK00 car with PPP to find the mysterious 2nd gear flat spot. Couldn't find any problems.
As I understand it, the problem occurs when you're cruising round a roundabout with a bazzed up Nova on your tail. You slip it into second and hold it around 3,500 rpm until your exit appears and then floor it. Nothing happens, right?
Well, my car just flew off as usual and by the time I was up the slip round and joining the dual-carriageway I was doing well over 100mph (or I would have been officer, had I not backed off to a steady 69mph).
Hoppy
25 January 2001, 07:18 PM
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Hoppy
The diference was not night and day for me.
Perhaps mine is a quick MY99
(Backbox, ITG, no resonator intake box)
I really need to experience another PPP...
I just can't believe the PPP I tried was doing the business
Tried 3rd gear from 2k RPM and yes it did pick up earlier...but the increased shove in the back I was expected did not really happen.
I'm almost thinking Prodrive forgot to change the ECU.....
I guest what I really want is an 30 day PPP trial whereupon the software reverts to original spec and the exhaust morphs back to standard
Its not off my list yet though....
The diference was not night and day for me.
Perhaps mine is a quick MY99
(Backbox, ITG, no resonator intake box)
I really need to experience another PPP...
I just can't believe the PPP I tried was doing the business
Tried 3rd gear from 2k RPM and yes it did pick up earlier...but the increased shove in the back I was expected did not really happen.
I'm almost thinking Prodrive forgot to change the ECU.....
I guest what I really want is an 30 day PPP trial whereupon the software reverts to original spec and the exhaust morphs back to standard
Its not off my list yet though....
25 January 2001, 09:46 PM
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Hoppy,
Strange. First the engine has to run at ±3200 rpm (±30 mph) for about 10 seconds in 2nd gear. Then you go full throttle and the boost will not come above 0.5 bar (half load).
This is what I have noticed.
It is a noise reduction algorithmic, in the ECU, to pass the noise-test.
Gert-Jan
Strange. First the engine has to run at ±3200 rpm (±30 mph) for about 10 seconds in 2nd gear. Then you go full throttle and the boost will not come above 0.5 bar (half load).
This is what I have noticed.
It is a noise reduction algorithmic, in the ECU, to pass the noise-test.
Gert-Jan