paul_davies

Has anyone mounted a cone filter in the inner wing like the APS kit? Is it a worth while mod?
Pictures and parts list (ie what cone filter?) would be nice

AndrewC

Mr EcuTek did it

Andrew...

nom

Can help, yes, but it's far more likely to show up as a gain on a RR than on a road (cool air is rather more likely to flow through the engine when the car's moving!).

However... the longer airflow means that the MAF readings are completely screwed - the car is likely to dramatically underfuel, leading to possible engine poppings. Basically, I wouldn't try doing this unless you either don't use a MAF or can get the car remapped around it.

An easier option can be to simply box off the filter from the heat in the engine bay - this way the airflow isn't disrupted & the MAF should read correctly

AndrewC

Plus longer pipework means more restriction.

Once the car is moving the temperature difference between the inner wing and that particular corner of the engine bay is very small.

Andrew...

paul_davies

Ok, I'm going to go for the GGR cone filter (MAF safe as I've already blowwn one up!! ) and box it in. Does anyone have any pictures of boxed in cone filters? I've searched but I can't find any

:Mike:

That's just mad.

As soon as you go through a deep puddle at any kind of speed an air filter in the bumper will just suck in water
Water in fuel = blown engine...

Tone Loc

iTrader: (1)

I'd be very surprised if you could blow up your engine from going through a puddle . How much water do you think would go in... it has to travel up a very steap incline and then down the full length of the inlet pipe, through the turbo (high temps now) then the intercooler then the inlet manifold and to the engine. By this time i wouldn't expect any great amounts if any....

Better tell all the guys running water injection (not spray) to turn it off or they will blow up their engines too.

Tony.

Sorry for being so sarcastic

Fatman

Yes - I have the APS kit installed. The car is custom mapped, so under reading isn't an issue. I found that there's much less induction noise with the in-wing intake (and Forge recirc valve) than with the K&N 57i (and OE recirc valve). I don't think there's a serius risk of getting water into the intake. It's not going to keep me awake at night with worry, anyway.

Tone Loc

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure you shouldn't be worried Ben.... remember 'Water in fuel = blown engine...'

Tony.

Fatman

I would have thought that water in the fuel system would have caused greater problems. My reasoning would be that the mix could be very inconsistent (how immiscible are petrol and water?), so it may be plausible to inject significant water instead of 100% fuel. Also, if the water were in the inlet air then wouldn't the MAF over-read (i.e run rich)? Then there's the suggestion that the result would be somewhat akin to an engine with water injection.

Bottom line: I'm guessing, but my gut feeling is that it's not a major risk.

Tone Loc

iTrader: (1)

Ignore me.... im taking the **** out of :Mike:'s post. It's Friday . You have nothing to worry about Ben.

Tony.

Fatman

lol Roll on the weekend!

dnb

AFAIK the problem with water comes from high speed water droplets being fired at the turbine blades in the turbo. I'd imaging that this won't do it much good...

KEVWRX95

Can someone elaborate on the comments earlier about the longer air intake pipes making the maf sensor not work properly ie making car under fuel,
The reason I ask is that I have just put on a pace front mount intercooler and as I have a blitz air filter,this is going to hit the intercooler pipework, so I am just about to cut my inner wing and mount the air filter in the front wing,(as I presumed it will get colder air feed),and I have just ordered/recieved an extra length of samco hose to connect the blitz to the ggr samco hose that runs under the manifold to the turbo.
So my pipework will increase in length.
I would have thought that the maf sensor just reads how much air is being sucked in,what difference does it make how long the pipework is to the turbo?
The maf sensor I have was originally attached to a 90 degree TD05, now it is attached to the GGR hose I mentioned earlier and then a front entry MD309 turbo.
I have noticed no difference on my knocklink or my lamda sensor
Any comments welcome?
By the way I'm getting the car GEMED in Jan so hopefully if I'm careful over the next few weeks it shouldn't matter
Kev.

dowser

The known issue is when using an APS CAK pipe to relocate the filter - it drops the MAF voltages and will cause problems unless you map around it. The potential is there for similar with any other pipework extension - it would be interesting to see whether Steve (Mr. EcuTek ) had to remap after this mod?

Regarding water inhalation at the filter - it may not blow your engine, but will as sure as sh*t break compressor blades....at least on a vf23

A drop of water at the revs the turbo is spinning, is like smashing it with a housebrick....

Richard

Fatman

Dowser - can you give me any links to the feature you described about the APS CAIK dropping MAF voltages? My car was having a map tweak today, and the mapper commented that the MAF appears to be under-reading throughout the whole range. i.e. not indicative of a MAF failure, but something else. Links/tips greatly appreciated.

dowser

He-he - just do a search on 'APS CAK' Or look at APS's web sote - they supposedly mention it too.

Richard

Fatman

The APS web site mentions that the CAIK is intended to be used with a mapped Unichip system. I don't think that they give specific details of MAF voltages.

I've done a search and have seen references to "MAF rescaling". What's that about? Is this an artificial shift in the voltage returned by the MAF sensor?

nom

Basically, yup. The MAF system needs to be recalibrated to adjust to the different length inlet path.
I put up a MAF reading before/after an APS CAIK somewhere...hmm...nope, it's gone. Well, the image has anyway
Found the thread here, though
(Quick note - info in the above thread & below relates to a MY00 with Tek2 & decat but pretty much bog-standard aside from that )
Basically, there's a big (well, huge) hole at spool-up - the AFR was reading '0' as in a tad lean... but after that I think the lambda was reading 0.86v rather than the usual 0.91v under WOT - i.e., running at 12:1 rather than 'very rich indeed'. While this gives the car a serious amount more poke, and arguably is just outside safe fuelling limits (given a very cool charge, etc.) there is very little scope for problems. I found the car was OK at night (cool air) - the ECU was having to retard a little under WOT but no det - during the day, any atempt at boost caused the ECU to panic & drop wastegate control - drop to 0.5bar, basically. Not a good sign!
In short, don't use an APS CAK without mapping to tak it into account - it could easily blow your engine.

MadMark

Guys, the whole reason that Paul is known as "Mr Water Injection" is that we were doing a fast run (in torrential rain) and Paul's engine started cutting out. Turns out that Water had gotten into his MAF from the cone filter in the wing .....

paul_davies

Nearly right Mark, That was only with the resonator box removed and some extra pipe work leading to the standard airbox with a panel filter in. It was because there was HUGE gap between the inner plastic arch and the bit that goes under the bumper, this was the cause of the small puddle my air box. and MAF failure
I was going to put the cone in the inner wing a crimbo (now that I've sealed that gap) but after reading about complete remap I think I'm going to try a cone filter boxed in the engine bay, keeping the path length to the MAF the same