RichieC

Whats the current fav ECU upgrade??

Ive heard great things about the Unichip and Motec (Expensive??), but how are things going with LINK and the PE phase1 (without wishing to turn over any covered threads !!!)

The car in question is an MY93 WRX anybody got any experience of uprated ECUs on the early imports? Im after prices and any good info

Cheers all

Richie

GavinP

Richie,

I had a Link fitted to my 94 WRX by Bob Rawle

DanTheMan

I'm after the same upgrade for my 93WRX....

Richie, a great deal of background on the Motech ECU upgrade is in the current Banzai Mag , it also has the options for adjustable boost, launch control and best of all Anti lag....but at what cost !!!

has anyone else fitted these ??

RichieC

Im looking into the whole PossumLink route just now Dan, as Motec is more than £2K !!.

What sort of money is the Unichip anyone?

Cheers

Richie

Big Bear

I`ve had a MoTeC fitted to my car now for 3 months , with all the bells and whistles , ie anti-lag, launch control and 95/97 octane settings . I`m very happy with the results and will be even happier when I get some bigger injectors , to get the most out of the engine .
Uni-chip is about £600 fitted and mapped (I think).
The people who fitted my MoTeC are the same people as in Banzai , Powerstation . Give them a call they have a refreshing no bullsh1t attitude and are very helpfull .
Dave

RichieC

Heard lots of good things about Powerstation, but the MoTec is just toooo expensive

What extra stuff do they fit for anti-lag? not just an ECU mod is it? Is it switchable from in the car?

Cheers

Richie

firefox

I am curious...

Do people think they can get the most out of a Motec or Pectel on a stock car ?

For the extra cost over a Link or Unichip, do the other, more expensive ECU's, give that much extra ?

Do they justify the price ?

J.

Big Bear

There is nothing you have to fit for the MoTeC anti-lag , it is all done within the ECU .

FireFox
The reason I went for the MoTeC is that the ECU can be taken from car to car . The fact is that I change my car quite often I wanted something that is universal .Anyway my car is one of my hobbies and who needs to justify the money you spend on keeping yourself amused .
Dave

IWatkins

J,

Very interesting point and something that should be discussed.

What a customer wants and what a customer actually needs or can use is a very different thing altogether.

As we all know, the potential customer for an ECU upgrade/replacement has very different requirements.

Customer A may only want smoother running, better fuel economy and if more torque is available, that'll be a bonus. They don't want to know details, just fit and forget. They want the same car but 'improved'.

Customer B may want as much torque/bhp as possible on the current mechanicals (and maybe beyond) and wants it to be as raw and ragged as a raw and ragged thing. They want to be able to mess with settings themselves, to print off graphs, to datalog and analyse. They want a rally car.

Customer C is the guy in between. He wants more power and torque but he doesn't want the engine to be too stressed. If he can have a switchable map etc. for the occasional track day, great. If any of the side effects is the occasional overrun bang, pop, also great. He may or may not want to play with the system himself. He knows what he wants, but doesn't fit a pigeon hole.

So, what do you recommend to these customers ?

OK, Customer A is fairly easy. If that is all he ever wants, then a Unichip or Link will do the job fine.

Customer B is very very easy. He gets a full-on MoTeC or Pectel system with the option to upgrade at a later date, should he want the LCD dash, beacon lap timing etc. etc.

Customer C is more difficult. You could suggest a Unichip. That would do want he wants in most cases. So would a Link. But so would a MoTeC, Pectel etc. etc.

I really think that most owners will be customer type C. And hence fairly difficult to recommend a system to.

What a potential customer should do is write down exactly what they want from an upgrade, then go looking at systems, chatting to tuners etc.

RichieC, to answer your question, the current fav. all depends on who you speak too

Cheers

Ian

RichieC

Fair point Bear

But is this truly anti-lag then cos its not utilising any external (to the ecu) bits. What I mean is true GpA Anti Lag consists of a mod in the front of the Turbo (in the case of the Cosworths at least)which allows it to be pulsed, how does MoTec achieve this.

How much has the total pack cost you if you dont mind me asking??

Im most definately ManC (with a hint of ManB in me!!), want all the pops bangs and thrills but none of the associated running woes and bottom ends letting go....must be THE hardest to recommend a system for eh?


Richie

[This message has been edited by RichieC (edited 22 October 2000).]

Big Bear

RichieC
When I had the conversion done it was a total of £2500 . This is for the M48 Pro ecu , loom adapter , switches for als , l/c and 95/97 , the mapping and 3 barmap sensor . The water injection I had fitted about a month earlier .
The truth of the matter is that yes , it is very very expensive but I like to have the best that I can afford .
People may think that I`m mad spending that on an ECU , but I really don`t care what people think as long as I am happy .
Dave

RichieC

Fair enough Bear, enjoy it

R

Big Bear

RichieC
I certainly will mate .
Cheers Dave

DJB

I think that for the money (around £500), the Unichip offers the best package. You will need to change to a less restrictive exhaust and filter (if you haven't already done so) but you should expect around 260 bhp and similar lb ft torque with this set-up.

I've not heard any adverse comments about the Unichip yet.

I am waiting until the warranty runs out before changing to this.

D.

johnfelstead

rich, there isnt a mod to the front of the turbo for ALS.

GroupA ALS systems use air valves that bypass the throttle buterfly to feed the engine with air controlled by the ECU, rather than relying on the throttle buterfly opening.

If you want what i call ALS you need a Miram shaft in the turbo to stand the heat, no road car systems give what i call ALS. Then again i am rather into full GroupA rally cars, they are very diferent to your road cars.

RichieC

Thats the system Im talking about. ALS in the case of the GpA Escorts is what I mean. I thought theres a sort of "throttle body" which sits in the turbo inlet. Whatever it is (plenty of GpA experience, not much GpA Turbo experience) when you flick that switch, the car erupts around you. Never driven anything as involving as a full house Escort Cossie

So the Impreza Anti Lag is a sort of half measure? How do the GpA Imprezas do it?

Thanks again

Richie

GavinP

I would just like to re-emphasize that BR Developments map the car to YOUR requirements and will try to accomodate your brief as long as it is not reckless!

I should also add to my previous post that the car is MUCH faster than it was..... I seem to have overlooked that small point.

I do have a tuning module (does this get me out of the Man A category ?) but I use it for monitoring or under direction as I don't kid myself that I could do a better job than Bob can...

There are other Link owners who have devoted a lot of time and effort to learning the system. Obviously with this knowledge, they can control their car to very good effect. I just don't trust myself enough.

There are other options available from different suppliers of course, but I would be surprised if the level of service given by BR Developments can be equalled IMHO.

Thanks

Man A (oops, GavinP )

[This message has been edited by GavinP (edited 23 October 2000).]

firefox

Antilag is implemented by using the air idle valve on the scoob.. which bypasses the butterfly..

But I agree the turbo/cat wont last...

I have been quoted 3K for a new shaft for my turbo... I passed.. lol

J.

JonJon

How about Haltec E6K?

Does anyone have experience w/ it?

I like the idea of taking the ECU w/ me to the next car, but I think the MoTec is out of my range.

btw, how about Apexi's Power FC??
it seems like lots of Japanese are running their impreza w/ it.

John

IWatkins

Jon,

A friend of mine is the States has ahd nothing but trouble with the Haltech. This may just be a one off but by the sounds of it it could be more trouble than it is worth.

See this:

JonJon

Ian,

Thanks for the great links,
but I have to be honest that it's the first time I've heard bad news about Haltech E6K.
I look futher into this issue.

About Autronic, it certainly opened up another option..do you know what the price range is like?

I think one thing that I really like is the fact that these ems can be moved to the next car if I wish to do so.

I've also found the information regarding Tec-II ems which is popular in the "i" club forum from the states. It looks interesting as well

Regards,
John

IWatkins

John,

Sorry, I really have no idea on the price of the Haltech or the Autronic, but I'm sure that both are much cheaper than the MoTeC.

Yes, you may be right with reagrds to the Haltech. Could just be a one off

Cheers

Ian

pat

Whe-hey, fun thread! :-)

As others have said, ECU choice is really a question of what you hope to achieve both now and in the future.

I'm also surprised that people are slating the MoTeC for its price! Let's not forget that first, and foremost, it is a *RACE* ECU, designed to be deployed in very expensive machines which are supposed to win, compromise isn't a word in the vocabulary in this context and the ECU has been designed to these criteria. The M48Pro (3DFISA) retails at UKP 1580+VAT in the UK. But let's see what you get here compared to, say, a PossumLink.

A Possum is built around an 8 bit microcontroller with some interfacing circuitry to filter signals and drive things like injectors. The board isn't a monument to engineering achievement. The maps are quite coarse (16 RPM sites, 6 load sites), the boost is mapped 2 dimensionally, there are some compensations (but not for air charge temp!). Timing control is done by the microcontroller and should be accurate to 1 degree of crank rotation.

The MoTeC M48Pro uses a 32 bit microprocessor and a time coprocessor. Timing control is not affected by other interrupts in the microprocessor core and is consequently much finer. The maps are gargantuan compare to the link (up to 40 by 22), boost is 3 dimensionally mappable, there are compensations for a whole manner of things like air charge temp, there is a vast amount of information that can be logged for later analysis, the list goes on and on... but is all this strictly necessary for a road car?

Well, it all depends on how hard you want to push the car. The closer to the edge you go, the more delicate you have to be, and this is where the more precise timing control is sooooo useful. It allows you to get ever closer to the edge, and to stop you falling over you have compensations so as the air temp heats up and it would start to det, the ECU pulls back on the timing so that it doesn't det.

Let's not be under any illusions here. No sane tuner would ever take a customer's car this close to the edge unless they had a written disclaimer from the customer. So the benefit of fitting a MoTeC over and above a Link from a user's point of view may well be limited to a) smoother running, b) cute features like launch control and c) the ability to take it to their next car. It would, however, come into its own if you do your own mapping!

While the Possum may not be a monument to engineering achievement, it is excellent value for money. It allows a tuner to take the car closer to to the edge than it left the factory, perhaps increase fuel economy and even be safer at the same time. Sounds like a very good deal to me!

So, overall, there is no real "flavour of the month", just different solutions to different problem criteria.

With regard to antilag, what basically happens is the ECU performs random cylinder fuel cuts and retards the ignition so that the engine becomes a hot gas pump, feeding the turbine to keep it spinning, but not makig any (significant) power. Trouble with this is that retarding the ignition will increase exhaust gas temperature and could lead to valve, valve seat or turbo failure. ALS generates a lot of heat (and noise!).

The "usual" way to run ALS is to use the Air Bypass Valve (or Idle Speed Control valve as it's known on Subarus) to allow more air into the intake when the throttle is closed. To increase the effect, the ISC valve may be fed from the pressure side of the turbo, allowing more air into the intake than would normally be possible through the small opening in the valve. In any case, it's not very turbo-friendly, certainly if it's generating a lot of boost when the throttle is closed.

I will be having a play with this on my Pectel T6 when I get round to it [gotta get some nice Samco pipes first :-)] Will post some results up when I have the thing running is a fashion which is sufficiently satisfactory to be called "stable" :-)

Cheers,

Pat.

Shaun

Richie,

I had the same car, a 93 WRX. I had my ecu done at Powerstation and the module was a UNICHIP.

The other mods done were a HKS induction kit and a mongoose, turbo back exhaust system.

It produced 280bhp and 250 lb/ft!! It was a severe improvement over standard. Cost was 475+vat, including fitting!!! Power figure prior to exhaust and ecu at Powerstation was 236bhp!!!!!

Value for power it is defintaley the best dollar you can spend!!!! The results (and dont forget these were on Powerstations rollers!!!!!!) spoke for themselves!

Have a chat with Rich @ Powerstation and mention me (not to get a discount , only for comparison of application).

Shaun.

[This message has been edited by Shaun (edited 27 October 2000).]

JAMES.M.

I have to say i like the idea of being able to take upgrade parts with me and transfer onto another car (maybe not a Subaru).

Is the Motec the only ecu upgrade that this can be done with? I was under the impression that the Unichip was semi universal? Hence the name?
Can anyone shed anymore light on this?

Cheers....JAMES

Shaun

James,

The UNICHIP is not universal, as there are about five different versions.

[This message has been edited by Shaun (edited 28 October 2000).]

RichieC

Cheers Shaun, you couldnt have convinced me more

Im doing it.

Mine made 261BHP (on Star Performance rollers) with Downpipe, exhaust and Induction Kit. Whatcha think Ill get with the Unichip?? Has it made the car any noisier? what about fuel economy and driving (smooth??).

Cheers M8

Richie

Shaun

Richie,

Dont bank on your figures, compare them with before and afters at poerstation.

I havent got the scooby anymore (i sold it to get an escort cossie ), but it was sh7tloads smoother and the new power was awesome No more noiser and the consumption was the same.......but dont forget that was with more power and more thrashing.....so in rwlaity the consumption had improved!!!!

Shaun.