Possumlink
19 February 2000, 05:25 PM
#1
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What's the current state of play now that the Possumlink is becoming more common??
Whos running it to what success?
Also which of the additional LINK products are worth having (i.e Knocklink etc)??
Im looking to fit it to a 63,000 mile MY93 WRX. Thanks in advance,
Richie.
Whos running it to what success?
Also which of the additional LINK products are worth having (i.e Knocklink etc)??
Im looking to fit it to a 63,000 mile MY93 WRX. Thanks in advance,
Richie.
19 February 2000, 08:58 PM
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Knock Link is well advised.
Lambda Link less effective as the lambda sensor in the Scoob is not very effective - certainly not at levels we run these cars.
Possum to be ordered this week to fit before Donington
Rannoch
Lambda Link less effective as the lambda sensor in the Scoob is not very effective - certainly not at levels we run these cars.
Possum to be ordered this week to fit before Donington
Rannoch
21 February 2000, 09:40 AM
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I have the PossumLink/KnockLink/LambdaLink units fitted. The Tuning module is a seperate unit. i.e. it's optional and an extra cost.
The ECU has transformed my car. In std trim my V5 Type-R coupe was noticably 'laggy' between the gears. Now the car feels almost normally aspirated. Scarily quick but in a very deceptive and smooth way.
I originally got the ECU fitted for peace of mind re: the fuelling issues people have had over STi V's. However, after having the wizardry of Bob Rawle attend to my car I have to say I'm astonished.
Rgds,
M
The ECU has transformed my car. In std trim my V5 Type-R coupe was noticably 'laggy' between the gears. Now the car feels almost normally aspirated. Scarily quick but in a very deceptive and smooth way.
I originally got the ECU fitted for peace of mind re: the fuelling issues people have had over STi V's. However, after having the wizardry of Bob Rawle attend to my car I have to say I'm astonished.
Rgds,
M
21 February 2000, 10:36 AM
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The Tuning Module is a seperate Item. If you are having it set up professionally you probably won't need one, (the tuner will have one).
You will only need one if you plan on taking the plunge yourself at which point you need to know what you are doing or it is a big risk.
Mike.
[This message has been edited by Mike Tuckwood (edited 21-02-2000).]
You will only need one if you plan on taking the plunge yourself at which point you need to know what you are doing or it is a big risk.
Mike.
[This message has been edited by Mike Tuckwood (edited 21-02-2000).]
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21 February 2000, 07:59 PM
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As I have been reminded off-line it is worthwhile speaking to a knowledgable tuner before deciding which Link add-ons you need.
My comments apply to my situation where Knock Link is critical for protection and Lambda link would add no value as I do not have adjustable air fuel ratio.
With a Possum fitted the Lambda Link may be of value - you decide with your tuner.
Cheers,
Rannoch
My comments apply to my situation where Knock Link is critical for protection and Lambda link would add no value as I do not have adjustable air fuel ratio.
With a Possum fitted the Lambda Link may be of value - you decide with your tuner.
Cheers,
Rannoch
21 February 2000, 10:46 PM
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I have the lot.
I would say the lambdalink is of limited worth. When mapping I did it all with the seriallink.
The knocklink is handy because it gives instant indication of a problem.
The lambdalink shows continuous output - realistically its not possible to drive along watching road/boost/speed/rpm/lambda whereas a knocklink can just "catch your eye" when something is wrong.
In any event, if you were to lean out, the heat would cause a knock ? and be picked up by knocklink ?
I would say the lambdalink is of limited worth. When mapping I did it all with the seriallink.
The knocklink is handy because it gives instant indication of a problem.
The lambdalink shows continuous output - realistically its not possible to drive along watching road/boost/speed/rpm/lambda whereas a knocklink can just "catch your eye" when something is wrong.
In any event, if you were to lean out, the heat would cause a knock ? and be picked up by knocklink ?
21 February 2000, 11:13 PM
#10
Ecu Specialist
Waiting for that to happen could be a tadge late though Lee, Lambdalink tells you alot more than just how the fueling is when used in conjunction with your boost guage. On the track (or road), for example, it would indicate an overheated inlet air condition long before anything else as you would see the mixture starting to lean (well before knock took place), at that point it would be well worth lifting off. Using seriallink is ok but, you can't map and datalog at the same time, hence lambdalink again.
Bob
Bob
22 February 2000, 12:08 AM
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Lee,
Maybe you would be better to find a deserted stretch of straight national limit road out in the countryside to do your mapping on? Possibly best to look for this sometime in the wee small hours.
Moray
(Now worried that the impreza ahead may be driven by someone who's distracted by engine mapping gizmos)
Maybe you would be better to find a deserted stretch of straight national limit road out in the countryside to do your mapping on? Possibly best to look for this sometime in the wee small hours.
Moray
(Now worried that the impreza ahead may be driven by someone who's distracted by engine mapping gizmos)
22 February 2000, 12:47 AM
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Calm, calm...
it's OK I am currently working with Boeing to develop "HUD Link". This will provide a full dynamic datalogging service as a Head Up Display. You will now be able to monitor/map safely as you drive along!
This will require, a special edition of GLASS ZYMOL to ensure that appropriate grade of reflection for both day and night driving.
Of course for UK cars there will be a BRIGHT SWITCH option.
R
[This message has been edited by Rannoch (edited 22-02-2000).]
it's OK I am currently working with Boeing to develop "HUD Link". This will provide a full dynamic datalogging service as a Head Up Display. You will now be able to monitor/map safely as you drive along!
This will require, a special edition of GLASS ZYMOL to ensure that appropriate grade of reflection for both day and night driving.
Of course for UK cars there will be a BRIGHT SWITCH option.
R
[This message has been edited by Rannoch (edited 22-02-2000).]
22 February 2000, 08:49 AM
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I'm not disagreeing, but I still say "of limited worth".
On the track/road at full chat I'm more interested in the road/cars (maybe boost)..I would say its very difficult to be monitoring lambda for lean-outs. As said before though, the knocklink can "catch your eye" as it flies up the scale
On the track/road at full chat I'm more interested in the road/cars (maybe boost)..I would say its very difficult to be monitoring lambda for lean-outs. As said before though, the knocklink can "catch your eye" as it flies up the scale
22 February 2000, 02:12 PM
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Steve,
The problems you are having, are caused by the map you are using, not the Possum.
I think if you ask any of the guys running Possums, how smooth the cars run, or if fuel consumption is up or down, you'll find they are more than happy. Personally, my mpg has increased by about 15% motorway cruising, and by about 20/23% urban. We won't talk about "happy hour", but running more boost, one expects mpg to drop.
Are you just running the default map, because it's flippin awful, and only to get you mobile. Regardless of what some people say.
You need to spend some more time mapping, as it sounds like fuel rows 2,3 are certainly too rich, and the "acc enrichments" are wrong. Also check your "lambda targets". The default targets are far too high, and need adjusting.
Once you get the map right, going back to the original ecu, will be the last thing on your mind.
Mark.
The problems you are having, are caused by the map you are using, not the Possum.
I think if you ask any of the guys running Possums, how smooth the cars run, or if fuel consumption is up or down, you'll find they are more than happy. Personally, my mpg has increased by about 15% motorway cruising, and by about 20/23% urban. We won't talk about "happy hour", but running more boost, one expects mpg to drop.
Are you just running the default map, because it's flippin awful, and only to get you mobile. Regardless of what some people say.
You need to spend some more time mapping, as it sounds like fuel rows 2,3 are certainly too rich, and the "acc enrichments" are wrong. Also check your "lambda targets". The default targets are far too high, and need adjusting.
Once you get the map right, going back to the original ecu, will be the last thing on your mind.
Mark.
22 February 2000, 04:09 PM
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I would concur with Mark. The idle and start-up stuff definitely benefits from tweaking over time. Personally I found the stock ECU would also cause its fair share of snatching and jerking at low revs.
Now I have a Link with tuning module, I can see on the display how the ECU is varying the fuelling as the revs and engine load change, and it's totally obvious what causes this kind of intractability. As you cross the various boundaries between the mapping zones, the sudden changes in enrichment manifests itself as unwanted changes in engine output.
The solution to this is to tweak the various fuel zone values, to smooth out the transitions. Unfortunately, both the Link and the stock ECU use feedback from the lambda sensor to adjust the mixture, which means that the carefully chosen zone values will soon be changed. This explains the fact that sometimes the car is beautifully tractable, and at other times it seems to jerk about a bit. It all depends upon how you have been driving for the last few minutes. (This also explains why some people have problems, while others don't - driving style plays a big part.)
All this has a bearing on fuel consumption, too. If you come away from the lights and give a firm prod of the throttle in 2nd gear, say 2500-3000rpm, then the ECU will say "oh, we better start squirting lots of fuel". You then change into 3rd and cruise along in the same rev range, but the engine is still burning fuel as if you're accelerating. It will soon see that it's running richer than necessary, but in the meantime it will have wasted a certain amount of fuel.
This is why my fuel consumption fell through the floor after I did the HPC course, because I was taught to use very firm acceleration to get to the desired speed, and then cruise, quite often skipping a gear or two on the upchange. This is not the way to get good fuel consumption out of any Impreza, but with a bit of careful tuning I am already getting better figures out of my Possum than I did out of the OE unit.
So, before anyone gets jumpy, I am neither defending our new favourite the Possum Link, nor criticising it. The behaviour I'm talking about is common to both the standard JECS ECU and the Link, and possibly many other brands as well.
However, it would seem that the lambda feedback mechanism doesn't do the around-town tractability (or economy) any favours, for the reasons given. There are ways to address this, but I have not yet reached anything like a final conclusion yet. I will be posting excitedly as soon as I have any good news to share, rest assured.
TTFN
-= mike =-
Now I have a Link with tuning module, I can see on the display how the ECU is varying the fuelling as the revs and engine load change, and it's totally obvious what causes this kind of intractability. As you cross the various boundaries between the mapping zones, the sudden changes in enrichment manifests itself as unwanted changes in engine output.
The solution to this is to tweak the various fuel zone values, to smooth out the transitions. Unfortunately, both the Link and the stock ECU use feedback from the lambda sensor to adjust the mixture, which means that the carefully chosen zone values will soon be changed. This explains the fact that sometimes the car is beautifully tractable, and at other times it seems to jerk about a bit. It all depends upon how you have been driving for the last few minutes. (This also explains why some people have problems, while others don't - driving style plays a big part.)
All this has a bearing on fuel consumption, too. If you come away from the lights and give a firm prod of the throttle in 2nd gear, say 2500-3000rpm, then the ECU will say "oh, we better start squirting lots of fuel". You then change into 3rd and cruise along in the same rev range, but the engine is still burning fuel as if you're accelerating. It will soon see that it's running richer than necessary, but in the meantime it will have wasted a certain amount of fuel.
This is why my fuel consumption fell through the floor after I did the HPC course, because I was taught to use very firm acceleration to get to the desired speed, and then cruise, quite often skipping a gear or two on the upchange. This is not the way to get good fuel consumption out of any Impreza, but with a bit of careful tuning I am already getting better figures out of my Possum than I did out of the OE unit.
So, before anyone gets jumpy, I am neither defending our new favourite the Possum Link, nor criticising it. The behaviour I'm talking about is common to both the standard JECS ECU and the Link, and possibly many other brands as well.
However, it would seem that the lambda feedback mechanism doesn't do the around-town tractability (or economy) any favours, for the reasons given. There are ways to address this, but I have not yet reached anything like a final conclusion yet. I will be posting excitedly as soon as I have any good news to share, rest assured.
TTFN
-= mike =-
22 February 2000, 08:23 PM
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My personal experience was that the Link always richened things up when running on lambda, regardless of my targets. I had more success running with lambda off.
23 February 2000, 08:47 AM
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Pat,
my sympathies. You are going through exactly what I went through. There is light at the end of the tunnel though..
2) In-zone fuelling..you have to consider not just that zone, but all the zones around it. Imagine that the zonefuel/ign is for the dead centre of the zone..as boost lowers you'll start to interpolate towards the zone in the previous row..as rpm increases towards the latter end of the zone you'll interpolate towards the next zone.
I had nightmares trying to dabble with individual zones..in the end I realised you can't make very localised corrections -you have to consider the map as a whole.
3) I also had lift off det. Again this can be cured by tweaking.
5) I have achieved a good idle with low lambda but the verdict is that the idling is one of the tricker areas to get right.
6) if your auto-lambda is making massive changes then either you were way wrong in the first place or the lambda targets are wrong. Also it helps to hold the car at a steady rpm so it can lock on..my experience was that auto-tune was no good for full throttle.
1,4) I would be interested in a wideband sensor at a sensible price.
And I would LOVE to know why greg has had to edit his post !
my sympathies. You are going through exactly what I went through. There is light at the end of the tunnel though..
2) In-zone fuelling..you have to consider not just that zone, but all the zones around it. Imagine that the zonefuel/ign is for the dead centre of the zone..as boost lowers you'll start to interpolate towards the zone in the previous row..as rpm increases towards the latter end of the zone you'll interpolate towards the next zone.
I had nightmares trying to dabble with individual zones..in the end I realised you can't make very localised corrections -you have to consider the map as a whole.
3) I also had lift off det. Again this can be cured by tweaking.
5) I have achieved a good idle with low lambda but the verdict is that the idling is one of the tricker areas to get right.
6) if your auto-lambda is making massive changes then either you were way wrong in the first place or the lambda targets are wrong. Also it helps to hold the car at a steady rpm so it can lock on..my experience was that auto-tune was no good for full throttle.
1,4) I would be interested in a wideband sensor at a sensible price.
And I would LOVE to know why greg has had to edit his post !
23 February 2000, 12:29 PM
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Over the last couple of weeks I've been messing around with a Link and it does have some quirks...
1) trying to use the lambda sensor is in closed loop mode doesn't work too well *for me* [see below]. Of course the fact that the standard lambda sensor is a narrow band job doesn't aid the situation.
2) in-zone fuelling is difficult to control *on my unit*. Eg cruise in zone 230 and adjust fuel (either manually or automagically) to get a good lambda. Now adjust the throttle a *wee* bit, still in zone 230 and the lambda voltage can be miles off... consequently there can be jumps between zones unless I keep the map very rich (in which case fuel economy is naff but grin factor is big).
3) *my unit* doesn't appear to provide lift-off enrichment and causes dets when lifting off at high engine speed :-( Maybe I just need to richen up zones 150-175....
4) the lambda sensor on the vehicle is a narrow band job. Not ideal for mapping since it "switches" at stoich... I'm trying to find a supplier of the Bosch LSM11 wideband lambda sensor; this has a voltage output similar to narrow band jobs and allegedly is quite reasonably priced [no current amps needed etc, it's allegedly a drop-in replacement]
5) the injector timing granularity appears to be quite coarse, which makes obtaining a smooth idle with good lambda voltage (around stoich or less) almost impossible. When at a Lambda voltage of about 0.75, any further reduction in ZONEFUEL will cause the engine to misfire, lose revs, surge as it tries to recover.... it's almost as if the injectors are already running at the minimum pulse width at 0.75 and any further reduction is causing them to shut down intermittently but the dithering isn't too good. Need to hook up a 'scope to be sure.
6) On *my unit* using auto lambda is dangerous. Due to the problem outlined in 2) above, it is possible to be in a zone at such a point where it is very rich, and the auto-lambda ramps ZONEFUEL down to 10% or less. When next applying the loud pedal lots of mis-fires occur, but fortunately I have yet to see it det as a result. Moral of the story... don't use auto lambda for very long and keep an eye on it :-)
Now my unit is quite old, and these issues may have been resolved [as well as the resonating plenum, I hope :-)] in the newer version which should be making its way to me as I write this :-)
Anyone else interested in a Bosch LSM11 wideband lambda sensor? I might get a bulk discount :-)
Cheers,
Pat.
1) trying to use the lambda sensor is in closed loop mode doesn't work too well *for me* [see below]. Of course the fact that the standard lambda sensor is a narrow band job doesn't aid the situation.
2) in-zone fuelling is difficult to control *on my unit*. Eg cruise in zone 230 and adjust fuel (either manually or automagically) to get a good lambda. Now adjust the throttle a *wee* bit, still in zone 230 and the lambda voltage can be miles off... consequently there can be jumps between zones unless I keep the map very rich (in which case fuel economy is naff but grin factor is big).
3) *my unit* doesn't appear to provide lift-off enrichment and causes dets when lifting off at high engine speed :-( Maybe I just need to richen up zones 150-175....
4) the lambda sensor on the vehicle is a narrow band job. Not ideal for mapping since it "switches" at stoich... I'm trying to find a supplier of the Bosch LSM11 wideband lambda sensor; this has a voltage output similar to narrow band jobs and allegedly is quite reasonably priced [no current amps needed etc, it's allegedly a drop-in replacement]
5) the injector timing granularity appears to be quite coarse, which makes obtaining a smooth idle with good lambda voltage (around stoich or less) almost impossible. When at a Lambda voltage of about 0.75, any further reduction in ZONEFUEL will cause the engine to misfire, lose revs, surge as it tries to recover.... it's almost as if the injectors are already running at the minimum pulse width at 0.75 and any further reduction is causing them to shut down intermittently but the dithering isn't too good. Need to hook up a 'scope to be sure.
6) On *my unit* using auto lambda is dangerous. Due to the problem outlined in 2) above, it is possible to be in a zone at such a point where it is very rich, and the auto-lambda ramps ZONEFUEL down to 10% or less. When next applying the loud pedal lots of mis-fires occur, but fortunately I have yet to see it det as a result. Moral of the story... don't use auto lambda for very long and keep an eye on it :-)
Now my unit is quite old, and these issues may have been resolved [as well as the resonating plenum, I hope :-)] in the newer version which should be making its way to me as I write this :-)
Anyone else interested in a Bosch LSM11 wideband lambda sensor? I might get a bulk discount :-)
Cheers,
Pat.
24 February 2000, 08:29 AM
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Come one, Rich. No need for freedom of speech and other serious ideas. Greg simply messed it up and said that the PossumLink could be purchased in New Zealand for $950. But - which $950?? Dollars Australian or Dollars New Zealand? If it was 950 in NZ Dollars it would have been much cheaper than the product actually costs. But, if he said $950 Australian it might have been closer to real as their Dollar happens to be stronger than the one in the neighborghood.
As you good people in the UK always see when something looks attractively priced, someone must have seen an 'improbable' price tag and mentioned it to the writer.
You know me, my imagination goes further than it should, but there you go mate.
bye
Henry G.
As you good people in the UK always see when something looks attractively priced, someone must have seen an 'improbable' price tag and mentioned it to the writer.
You know me, my imagination goes further than it should, but there you go mate.
bye
Henry G.
24 February 2000, 08:54 AM
#25
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Kangaroo,
I doubt Greg was talking about prices in $$, whether NZ, or AU. BPM have a banner ad, quoting prices supplied in the UK.
Mark.
I doubt Greg was talking about prices in $$, whether NZ, or AU. BPM have a banner ad, quoting prices supplied in the UK.
Mark.
24 February 2000, 09:21 AM
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In response to this, there are prices and there are prices as we all know.We must understand that companies have to make a profit to survive.
Initially when I undertook to promote the LINK EMS I was quoted as being an idiot and an item only marsupials use.
BPM will no longer be promoting the LINK and other items we do not manufacture.
We have moved to the next phase of growth and promoting items you have no control of is not congruent with our new marketing strategy.
I must also add being quiet on this bbs board has led me to believe that the "tall poppy syndrome" is alive and well in the UK. One week you are king of the heap the next week you are the food in a dog's bowl.
The people that have supported us continue and will continue to do so,if I posted certain prices it was because maybe they were true , maybe they were an error. Point is even if I tell you what the truth was , assumptions as always have already been made.
Regardless of what people perception is of BPM and "my marketing" strategy it is a company that has led the board forward. We have brought ideas to the table that no one has. We brought in items for discussion that no one had even thought of.
Point is no matter what we say , what we do. People and [companies] who post on this board will always slander us.
Our record is tried and proven and removing a name to the product BPM is the next step.
If you could not attack "Greg Nikolettos" who would you attack? No one, since all our products work and work better than most [ZeroSports have to be given credit] ...
David Power was a contributer , no more, Peter Croney is no under attack on IWOC , and no doubt next week some one else will be given the new crown to wear as SUBARU KING.
Please wake up and see this as a learning and evolving process.
I am not always right and nor are other tuners but the way the knives get drawn leaves me to conclude the UK will be left behind with the current knowledge filtration system that people on the board use.
If you have any further queries about our products , please do not hesitate
to email me or we can chat online with
ICQ (45940764)
Greg Nikolettos
BPM Marketing Division
Phone: (617) 3272 8885
Fax: (617) 3218 8880
bpm@bpmsports.com
Initially when I undertook to promote the LINK EMS I was quoted as being an idiot and an item only marsupials use.
BPM will no longer be promoting the LINK and other items we do not manufacture.
We have moved to the next phase of growth and promoting items you have no control of is not congruent with our new marketing strategy.
I must also add being quiet on this bbs board has led me to believe that the "tall poppy syndrome" is alive and well in the UK. One week you are king of the heap the next week you are the food in a dog's bowl.
The people that have supported us continue and will continue to do so,if I posted certain prices it was because maybe they were true , maybe they were an error. Point is even if I tell you what the truth was , assumptions as always have already been made.
Regardless of what people perception is of BPM and "my marketing" strategy it is a company that has led the board forward. We have brought ideas to the table that no one has. We brought in items for discussion that no one had even thought of.
Point is no matter what we say , what we do. People and [companies] who post on this board will always slander us.
Our record is tried and proven and removing a name to the product BPM is the next step.
If you could not attack "Greg Nikolettos" who would you attack? No one, since all our products work and work better than most [ZeroSports have to be given credit] ...
David Power was a contributer , no more, Peter Croney is no under attack on IWOC , and no doubt next week some one else will be given the new crown to wear as SUBARU KING.
Please wake up and see this as a learning and evolving process.
I am not always right and nor are other tuners but the way the knives get drawn leaves me to conclude the UK will be left behind with the current knowledge filtration system that people on the board use.
If you have any further queries about our products , please do not hesitate
to email me or we can chat online with
ICQ (45940764)
Greg Nikolettos
BPM Marketing Division
Phone: (617) 3272 8885
Fax: (617) 3218 8880
bpm@bpmsports.com
24 February 2000, 01:09 PM
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Greg,
That sort of petulance is unwarranted reflects badly on yourself and BPM. I'm not sure what your last post is supposed to achieve, but I don't think you are making a useful contribution to the discussion at this point.
Rgds,
Alex
That sort of petulance is unwarranted reflects badly on yourself and BPM. I'm not sure what your last post is supposed to achieve, but I don't think you are making a useful contribution to the discussion at this point.
Rgds,
Alex
24 February 2000, 01:17 PM
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What reflects badly? The fact of the matter is that no matter who we talk about ie Power Engineering,ScoobySport etc etc, the BOARD has taken upon itself to crush the weekly hero.
Why can't a product remain brilliant in it's own right? Why do we have to belittle companies when all they are trying to do is offer solutions?
Fact of the matter is what did I state that seemed out of place?
The UK can not draw a clear line of distinction between personal affairs and business. This is true , when David Power Phase 1 was all the rage , people were so keen to defend him I got slated. Now that Mr Anders has done such a fine job in destroying the man's lively hood , we must all sit back and applaud? I think not.....
How about a few morals and ethics being involved when posting. People and the product are not the same thing...
Why can't a product remain brilliant in it's own right? Why do we have to belittle companies when all they are trying to do is offer solutions?
Fact of the matter is what did I state that seemed out of place?
The UK can not draw a clear line of distinction between personal affairs and business. This is true , when David Power Phase 1 was all the rage , people were so keen to defend him I got slated. Now that Mr Anders has done such a fine job in destroying the man's lively hood , we must all sit back and applaud? I think not.....
How about a few morals and ethics being involved when posting. People and the product are not the same thing...
24 February 2000, 01:40 PM
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I understand Greg's (or BPM's) feelings and agree with them to a certain extent. There is too much judge and jury posting on the BBS sometimes. However, Alex also makes a valid point in that this thread was about people's experiences with the Link and regardless of the attitudes of people on the board, this is not the thread to post such feelings. Even if you're completely and utterly accurate Greg, seeing a professional company posting such a message does not put you in a good light. I have no problem with BPM and have not posted anything against you. Conversely, I've never bought anything from you either (for no reason other than I've not needed or wanted any of your products, yet).
Maybe if you are getting totally p1ssed off with the BBS then either only post when explicitly asked to or leave it all together. Personally I feel the more people that can comment on a technical subject the better but it shouldn't ever be used as a free plug (that's not a dig).
I'm not having any sort of a pop at BPM but your earlier post really won't earn you any new customers. I guess you were letting of some steam?
Maybe if you are getting totally p1ssed off with the BBS then either only post when explicitly asked to or leave it all together. Personally I feel the more people that can comment on a technical subject the better but it shouldn't ever be used as a free plug (that's not a dig).
I'm not having any sort of a pop at BPM but your earlier post really won't earn you any new customers. I guess you were letting of some steam?
24 February 2000, 01:57 PM
#30
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Join Date: Dec 1999
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Letting off some steam and just wanting people to realise that there will not be DEALERS to post on the BBS because of the fear factor.
It is getting there slowly but surely, this is just a warning and I am not slandering people but as you can see my frustation did come through nice and clear... :-)
It is getting there slowly but surely, this is just a warning and I am not slandering people but as you can see my frustation did come through nice and clear... :-)