Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

I had my MY94 WRX PE'd a few months back now and it has done it the world of good. 291 bhp and 280 lb/ft ain't bad!

BUT since having the work done the ECU occasionally shows the "Check engine" light on a long overrun, and is a bugger to start when cold in the mornings (usually takes three or four attempts, firing on one, then two, then three, then four cylinders).

The tickover when warm is also very erratic. Anywhere between 800 - 1400 rpm (irrespective of a/c on or off).

Some of this has been discussed in a seperate thread but I thought it would be better to tie down a specific thread.

I have spoken to Dave at PE about this but nothing has been resolved, and I wondered if I was alone with these issues?

LEE.R

Hello
you are not alone mine does the same thing also if Im pottering at 30 then suddenly floor it I occasionly hit the over boost p.e said that this was expected they warned me about the check engine light comeing on when I picked the car up small price to pay with the power upgrade.

firefox

Hi guys...

No offence to PE (none intentially)..But I wouldnt except the PE1 if it made the MIL (engine light) come on.

You could be experiencing several problems here.... you can reduce overboost by fitting/altering the restrictor (if one is fitted).


The overrun part sounds like an A/F ratio problem...

Rough idle can be caused by several things...bad a/f mapping... manifold leak... AFM dirty/faulty....TPS needs adjusting...even plugs (but that would be caused by bad A/F ratio)

Hard to say...

PE should be able to fix it.

J.

Steve Howat

Stuart.

I had the same problem not long ago and it was diagnosed as a faulty engine temperature sensor, found using the subaru diagnostics kit. I had exactly the same symptoms except it would take up to 15 minutes to start. Apparantly the engine thinks it is already warm so the cold start doesn't work but when it gets hot it over revs. Also the fan was permanantly on. Does yours do that also? I do plan the PE phase one in the not too distant future (after Scoobysport downpipe and mid section) so I hope it is caused by the sensor! It only cost about £80 (parts and labour) to sort out.

Hope this helps!

Bob Rawle

Think I know what this is and if I'm right its nothing to worry about.

When PE did the PH1 did they change your map sensor for a Cossie one ? The normal one has a glassy shiny surface on top, its potted with resin. The cossie one is all plastic and will look as though it "does not belong".

If you have a Cossie one then thats why you have the check engine and start problem. Its because the cossie map produces a lower output voltage to the standard. The ecu thinks that the map reading is too low on over run and so shows check engine, you should see it go out as soon as you move the throttle again. The starting is the same thing, ecu expects to see about 2.5volts when you turn on the ignition to start. In fact it will only be seeing about 1.9 volts and will again think that its at a different pressure. After two or three days my check light stopped coming on as the ecu adapted to the new voltage values but the starting thing remained.

Does the engine just cough the first time but not start ? I have the Cossie sensor and it always coughs and refuses to start first time but if I turn the key again without turning off the ignition then it starts perfectly. Thats when I'm using the Ph1 ecu, no problem with Possum.

The reason for changing the sensor is that the standard one restricts boost to 18 psi and so stops PE mapping close to the boost limit. The Cossie one is linear up to 21 psi and allows more head room. It means that you get better boost in the lower gears as well.

I never had a problem with idle though so maybe thats something else, my car ticks over perfectly with either map sensor fitted.

[This message has been edited by Bob Rawle (edited 11-10-1999).

I have some graphs of different map sensor outputs if you want them ... let me know, they show the difference in output volts against vaccuum and pressure

[This message has been edited by Bob Rawle (edited 11-10-1999).]

LEE.R

Dont tell the rs owners we,re using cossie products on our cars theyll have a feild day

Mark B

I guys,

I have had the PE1 doen and have the same problems. (check engine, cold start).

The idling is fine though.

I have spoken with Merv and I am going back up there this week hopefully and they will have the car overnight to resolve the issues.

ROSS

Stuart,
My Sti 2 does exactly the same as yours...
Engine warning light comes on in the same way ,slightly lumpy idle and starting that if it were a normally asperated engine seems too lean , I have learned the knack of starting it now...Hope it will be OK on really cold days.
Thanks Bob for explaining what is going on I can live happily with it now and I AM pleased with the performance improvement.
It WOULD have saved me some worry if Dave or Merv had told me to expect this...
Call me a Prat if you like but in my ignorance I did reset the ECU a couple of times to try to remove any error signals that this might have recorded and remembered
and I was going to ring PE to try and sort it out but I quickly go used to it and did not bother.
Enough rambling . Thanks all.
I would still recommend the Phase 1 whole heartidly and these are very minor issues in point of fact.
Cheers Ross

Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Bob. That sounds like the problem. The car has been into PE twice for the remap (there were problems the first time) and the second time it went in they said they were changing a sensor, so I guess that was it. I'll have a look at the car later.

The problem I have with cold starting is it only appears to fire on one cylinder on the first attempt. It then splutters and dies. Sometimes it will start on the second attempt and nearly always on the third. Even when it does start it chugs into life. Once it is running on all four cylinders, it ticks over at about 1500 and runs fine. I never switch the ignition off between attempts.

mark245

I also had PE's phase 1 conversion on my MY94 2 days ago. After the first power run, Merv connected up a gadget to the ECU to read the chip, as he said that they had had a few problems with cold start programmes on some cars, as Subaru are always changing software. This process took several hours. I was also told about the check light may come on, but would eventually go out when the ECU had learnt the new parameters. This bit of info was not from Merv but from one of the other guys working there. Anyway, no checklight has shown itself, and today was fairly cold and no problems on start up at all, normal running is as standard settings. When on boost, the car pulls so much harder, it almost feels as if you are a gear lower. I gained almost exactly the advertised gains [ +30bhp & 40lb ft]with improvements right across the rev range. My car has a SS back box and a Ramair filter and made 243 bhp before Merv did his stuff. Recommended.

Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

Great news Dave, I'll be ringing you next week to book the car in!

ROSS

Thats great news Dave thanks ,I,ll give it a a week or so and then give you a ring to sort out a convenient time.
Cheers Ross

Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

Car went back to PE yesterday, where they ammended the cold start problem. Started first time this morning no probs. They also reseated the idle control valve while I was there and the tickover has returned to normal! Thanks Dave et all

leestudd

Hi All,

Glad you have your car working properly again. I guess these problems are specific to the PE system. What boost increase is added with the PE1 ?

I had a Unichip fitted to my 94 WRX at Powerstation (http://www.powerstation.org.uk/) over the weekend. Talk about grins all round !!!

We did a before an after power run:

Peak Power before was: 245 bhp
Peak Power after was: 282 bhp

Cannot remember the torque figures. I was too excited.

I have had no problems, cold start is OK, idle is fine and no check lights.

I don't have graphs at the moment (printer was knackered) but will get some next time I'm at Powerstation. Based on what they have done, I will be going back there for more work. Nice guys and they know their stuff.

So 500 ukpounds all in for 37 bhp (and a load of torque) has got to be a bargin.

The car actually drives much better now even off boost. Boost delivery is swift with no holes. Much smoother to drive fast through the gears. I have to watch that speedo more carefully now though ;-(

Recommended.

Cheers

Lee S.

robski

Lee,

any more details you know of, PSI etc etc

I have a MY99 so PE cannot remap (yet?), so I may be tempted to go this way if PE still havent craked by early next year.

robski

Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

Careful boys. I had a superchip on my MY94 WRX before the PE Phase 1. I got rid of the superchip because it pinked like crazy when thrashed! The superchip gave 270 bhp and 268 lb/ft, but the PE Phase 1 gives 291bhp and 280 lb/ft, and NO PINKING. It also runs slightly lower boost on PE conversion. The superchip would hold 18 psi, where PE uses 18 psi peak and holds about 16psi.

Peace of mind for 650+vat as opposed to £500. The superchip was about £325 btw.

Lee

Not wanting to be rude, please don't take this the wrong way but you obviously don't have the first clue as to how the superchips works against the unichip or PE.

superchips delivers wrong fuel/ignition settings ! All it does it stop the ECU from cutting the fuel when it detects overboost !

The unichip and PE supply correct fuel/ignition maps.

Andrew Dixon

I thought the SuperChip conversion wasn't actually a chip at all. I thought it was a bleed valve on some of the turbo pipework to fool the wastegate into allowing more boost, and some modifications to the ECU inputs/outputs to fool the ECU into thinking it was running with normal boost, and to remove the overboost protection.

I may be completely mistaken though!

The UniChip seems to be a piggyback onto the original ECU to allow remapping of some of the chips functions, which (provided it is done correctly) should be safer.

Maybe some of our more technical minds could shed some more light on this?

Andrew

leestudd

Hi All,

My understanding of the Superchip is the same as your. I.e. use a bleed valve to increase the boost. Then addition of a voltage capping device to stop the MAP sensor from reading that the boost is too high. This way the ECU carries on thinking everything is OK. In fact the fuelling is probably out. Dangerous at high boost. And 300+ quid for basically a zener diode and a bleed valve is a bit much.

The Unichip and the PE system both modify the fuelling and the ignition against load sites. This way, the maps are modified to *your* car using a map created especially for it, not to a generic map.

Robski, sorry, don't know anymore details. I don't really pay much attention to the numbers. I don't really care, it is what it feels like on the road that is important to me. Next time I am down at Powerstation I will get all the details. That remonds me, must go and buy a decent boost gauge. ;-)

Cheers

Lee S.

Lee

Yes yes EXACTLY right !

I use a bleed valve to up the boost, however I have kept below the cut-out levels and do not use (or want) a "super"chip interfering with the ECU signals.
Although I run slightly higher boost the ECU is seeing correct boost and providing appropriate ignition and fuelling.

One thing though..I'm told Dastek will be producing a unichip that CAN control boost i.e. the current one cant and just suppresses the cut-out. On these grounds the PE would seem to win the day.

MorayMackenzie

Stuart,

Have a look at Paul Strong's dyno site, look at the STI 3 cars with the Phase-One conversion, does 300lbft make them MY94 WRX+PhaseOne eaters?

Just be careful, you may have more torque than a _standard_ STI, but how do you know what lurks beneath the bonnet (and passanger footwell) of any STI you may see?

Moray


[This message has been edited by MorayMackenzie (edited 27-10-1999).]

pilch

Stuart,

Are you sure your bhp figures are correct?? What were they before mods, and what mods have you added? I'd be interested in a comprehensive list, as I have a MY94 WRX (non-STi) and was sold it as a 276bhp, but its really about 246bhp. Pre-95 WRX's are not 276bhp as standard. I want to push the envelope, so your setup would be a good template

Reply by email if you wish.

pilch

Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

Pilch, you are right MY94 WRX is only 240 out of the factory. Sue the delaer who sold you it as 276!!

My car has the following tweaks:
SS Back Box
SS Downpipe
Blitz Induction kit
Uprated spark plugs (whatever PE fit)
PE Phase 1 conversion
Group N clutch to cope with it all (the standard one started to slip, but that may have been age anyway)
STi Head gaskets (not really necessary as only running 18psi peak)

Plus numerous handling bits and pieces and of course Brembos. I was at the Berks meeting, you should have come and had a look!

The figures of 291 bhp and 280 lb/ft are from PE's dyno! STi eater torque!!!!! I don't know what the figures were when I got it, I only dyno'ed it with a Superchip on it before this, and got 270 bhp and 268 lb/ft. (that included SS b/box and downpipe, ramair filter)

I see from your profile you're not far from me, I live just outside Princes Risborough, so if you want to see/try it???

Stef

A guy at Santa Pod last week with a very nice Celica GT4 has got this Unichip, and he raved about it.
I'd never heard of it, but it's interesting to see a Scooby's got it.

Lee S.
Try to find out what your torque figures up to, and from what, as it's torque I'm more concerned with really.

If it's a 'piggy back' type, does that mean it doesn't interfere with the ECU (ie is it removable with no ill effects)?

Cheers.

Stef.

Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

Moray, I didn't say it was better than EVERY STi out there, that would be very presumptuous. But conversely STi's had better not think that mine is ONLY a WRX!!

The 94WRX makes a very good basis for tuning, and the point is the STi's might make lots of power but torque is what it is all about. I would rather have 280 lb/ft than 320 BHP.

I also know from experience it doesn't really make much difference anyway. On the track at Donnington earlier this year, mine was as quick as an STi in a straight line (with less power and torque than now), an STi was as quick as a 22b and any UK car could stay in front of all of us! True, had the straights been longer, there would probably have been an advantage, but the only way I could get past people was if they let me! (and vice versa)

With hindsight I shouldn't have made the STi eater comment, cos it only seems to have put your nose out of joint.

The point I was really trying to make is that most people think that the (standard) STi is wonderful because it produces 280 (ish) bhp but the standard torque is around 240, and around 250-260 with a few mods, which is better I know than my standard WRX, but WRX's are cheaper to buy and just as easy to tune.
I do not want to get into a flame war, I was only expressing a personal opinion, which I believe is why we have the BBS!

R19KET

Stuart,

On a like for like basis, most Phase1/Possum Link ecu STi's get circa 300ftlbs torque, to go with the 320bhp !!!.

Your right about torque though.I'll go for torque any day, but you tend to get one with the other.People like to use the bhp figure because it's normally the higher one.

Mark.

[This message has been edited by R19KET (edited 27-10-1999).]

leestudd

Hi All,

To answer all the questions I have been having about the Unichip.

Peak Power before was: 245 bhp
Peak Power after was: 282 bhp

Peak Torque before was: 232 lb/ft
Peak Torque after was: 276 lb/ft

Car is now running 17 psi boost.

The Unichip can be easily removed. You just unplug it from the few wires that are spliced into the loom. A couple of link wires are added to return to stock.

The actual boost is increased using a bleed valve but there will soon be a mappable electronic boost controller available with the Unichip (and an additional injector, water injection, intercooler spray etc. module).

Oh, and I lied about the cost, it is £587.50 all in (forgot to add the VAT). This does include fitting and rolling road setup time.

Stephen, do you know who this GT4 owner at Santa Pod was called or even which version of the GT4 it was/colour ?

I was recommended the Unichip by the GT4 boys as they are using it now (so look out!!). Apparantly a lot of the Nissan Sunny GTI-R boys are also getting it fitted. Now that is something to watch out for ;-)

Cheers

Lee S. (still very happy with his Unichip)

R19KET

OUCH !!!'

Sounds the same as a Superchip to me.I'd be VERY careful if I were you.They can't have adjusted the fuel and ignition to match the boost.

Plus I'm sure it'll get posted what a bleed valve, and FCD costs.

Do you know what %co your car was running at high boost/revs.If you don't, I recommend you get it checked.If it's below 7%, watch out !!!!.

Mark.

Stef

Lee.

I cant remember his name, but it was a black GT4 with loads of carbon dash trim.
This new version of the unichip sounds interesting.
At least I've got a decent alternative to go for if I ever decide to got this route, which I won't do until my warranty's run out (probably! ).
The increases you gained in both bhp and torque are very impressive.
I think I'll wait and see what their new kit's like.

Stef.

[This message has been edited by Stephan (edited 27-10-1999).]