RB5_245

I thought i had my whole plan sorted, but something just came up....

For roughly the same price as a re-map and boost controller i could get a GEMS ECU.

Now i'm at a loss what to do. The car is:

MY99

Full de-cat and 3"pipe
VF35 turbo
APS TMIC
ERL Aquamist (0.5mm nozzle)
HKS Induction kit
HKS SSQV

Up rated fuel pump is on the way and the obligitory knocklink, lambda link, boost gauge are there.

The last thing i had to do before a re-map was get a boost controller, any opinions from folk in the know?

I intend to run up to 18psi for about 340bhp.

RB5_245

Another thing, after reading JB's post, Will it be possible to change to a MAP based system if running a GEMS ECU?

I know it's not required for my power level but any chance of getting rid of that MAF sensor is a bonus to me!

Adam M

I would go for the remap.

the gems is nice and can be easily sold on, but the functionality of the standard ecu is improvign all the time.

You get proper idle control, you retain delta dash and fault diagnostic ability, most importnaly the stadnard ignition retard will work with standard knock contro which I dont recall to be a feature of the gems. The ecu also looks standard to anyone else including an insurance should you decide to go ahead with the work.

You can also still use things such as the secs monitor.

Don't be swayed by toys such as antilag, give it a few months and I am sure these will be available with the stadnard ecu too.

RB5_245

Toys weren't my main concern, and **** me if i'm going to destroy mt nice new turbo with anti-lag.

On the topic of toys, has anyone tried the new(?) greddy boost controller, i hear it's the doggies bits and maybe worth getting instead of an AVC-R

carlos_hiraoka

would also say to keep the stock ECU, and map it for different boost levels ..... nothing like the stock idle .

Carlos H.

5 Type R

Can a TEK remap take into consideration different sized injectors?

Am interested also

RB5_245

I'm sure it can, but i doubt you need to increase your injector size until around 350bhp, i think the standard 440's are good until then. I think all the uk cars use 440's

cube

RB, GReddy's Profec E-01 is indeed a top piece of kit. Untested and ignored here in the UK by and large, but appears very capable and popular in the US.
I intend to try one shortly.

Cube.

5 Type R

Mines a V5 Type R , but think that 340ish is pushing it on the standard 440s.

Currently running a genuine 310ish and thats pretty high on IDC

dowser

If you're doing all this, slap on 550's and EcuTek it....you'll be very unhappy running only 1.1 to the redline because of IDC's after a very short time

Richard

john banks

The 99/00 ECUs even remapped still idle a lot better on 440s than 550s in my experience. New age ECUs are properly adjustable for injector size.

Closed loop control can be rather coarse with larger injectors as it can be a little underdamped.

Cold start can be erratic with larger injectors because the ECU seems to throw in a fixed addition to pulse with rather than a scaling factor as you might expect. Therefore it is a compromise between not having it excessively rich at cold start and not having excessive positive air fuel lambda correction when warm.

I'll throw another spanner into the works here

If you have a fuel pressure regulator and a fuel pump, it might be possible for you to use the OEM ECU without remapping it. Shock horror what am I saying I don't think you'll lean it out with a VF35 and if you do you can increase the fuel pressure. The closed loop control would then sort the idle and cruise for you. You'll need a £50-100 HKS fuel cut defender (they often come up second hand) and a Dawes to control the boost. As long as the HKS induction kit has all the right bits installed it should not run lean, although it would not be my choice on the 99 as they have a reputation for blowing the MAF sensor - consider a K&N 57i. The main issue is ignition timing. Here enters your water injection... if you gradually increase the boost and monitor the car for knock correction and knocklink activitity I think you may well get away with it. I ran a TD04 hybrid at 21 PSI with a FCD on the original ECU and when setup right it was det free.

Just suggesting that you may not necessarily NEED a remap, there are other ways to get the ECU to work for you. VF35 is ideal to try this as it is not too big and will taper off at the top end. A copy of Delta Dash allows you to retard the ignition by up to 5 degrees in the higher load areas until the next battery disconnection or ECU reset.

Just a few options to consider, although you need skill to set them up and as always it can go horribly wrong.

Re MAP conversion, it is a future project which I have not had time to prioritise. There will be nothing like a power brick wall to motivate me to do it

[Edited by john banks - 10/23/2003 7:53:05 PM]

5 Type R

Whats the general concensus on the best place to go for a TEK for an STI 5?

john banks

Sorry another thing RB5 is that you don't need the boost controller if you map the ECU. You have a few options:

Just remap the ECU with the factory 2 port
Remap with a 3 port
(both these options on the UK 99/00 can be used with Ecutek gear judge which all the mappers should have or I can supply a sample ROM for it to them by email or they could get it from Stephen Done, it allows full boost even in low gears )

You could consider a Dawes, or an EBC. A Dawes or the ECU setup well with gear judge can be a rival to the best EBC IMHO.

RB5_245

JB.. not re-mapping and using an FCD instead!!! scary thoughts, thats a lot of trust in the standard ECU. Last time i talked to you (a long time ago) you said forget the FCD use Daws then re-map. I don't want to use daws given the on/off nature, so had decided on a EBC instead, do you really think with water injection and an FCD i can run 18psi of boost with daws and not re-map!?

This seems a bit of a cheep and cheerful way to get power but given you are usually right, and daws and FCD are cheap should i give it a shot (and trust my engine to knocklink)??

It's a pretty wild theory but will save me about £1000 which is always good!

dowser

Never trust your engine's knock sensor, or the ECU's ability to react to it - go buy a knocklink (a separate sensor and incar display you run in parallel to the factory set-up)

john banks

You don't need the FCD if you remap obviously. The Dawes is a bit on-off on a TD04, but on a VF35 it is quite good. I have trusted lots of engines to (properly working read properly) knocklinks.

With the larger turbo putting out cooler charge and less back pressure, along with the water (plus the ability to retard with Delta Dash) then you have a few things at your disposal.

Additionally, a MY00 AE802 ECU could be something to try as it responds better to det and runs a bit richer.

Just watch that it all doesn't end up costing more than a remap

RB5_245

I don't think i have enough experence to do this without a re-map. I would have to buy every gauge i could find, then i'd crash because i was only watching them, plus i'm a definate boostaholic and wouldn't stop increasing till i get exactly what i want!

standard 2 port: this is open loop and therfore the boost varies depending on atmospheric conditions. 3 Port is closed loop thefore holds the boost regardless of temperature. Am i right?

I reckon then that 3port is the only way to go so need to get hold of a 3-port boost solenoid. If i'm making an absolute **** of myself it's because i have not looked into this at all.

If so are these easy to come by(where from)?

Next question then... Daws tails off boost at high revs, so does the VF35, so does the ECU. So if my target boost is 18psi, am i going to get that at 4000rpm tailing off to about 15psi at the redline? I don't like the sound of that, since it will make a torquey, gearbox destroying engine without the power i want, by my thinking (i am new to this though).

Fuel pressure regulator. I have absolutly no clue about these. Help!?

Once i have this on it's re-map time. Are you busy this month john?

And an afterthought.

If done with daws i'll get full boost in every gear, tailing off at high revs, with no over boost problems in say 4th and 5th?

If done on the ECU alone i'll have to sacrifice the earlyer spool up in 3rd to avoid overboost in 4th and 5th?

Cheers, Dave.

john banks

2 port and 3 port are both closed loop. 3 port tends to control better. With either you will get higher peaks in cold weather. This is not bad thing really since the setup can take higher boost in cold weather more safely and it gives a good shove in the back.

You can get a 3 port from breakers yards for about £25 or new from Subaru for about £150.

The VF35 is a small turbo and if you try to run 18 PSI to the top it will struggle with any method. With a Dawes I would expect it might drop off to about 16 PSI at the red line but it depends on how free flowing the inlet and exhaust are. An adjustable actuator on your turbo can help sort the top end.

If you don't want to faff about a remap might be better. I don't do it any more - too busy with my main job.

If the mapper uses acceleration compensation you can get full boost in 2nd gear. The Dawes will give a similar result.

Fuel pressure regulator will allow you to get more out of your original injectors, so they should handle the VF35.

[Edited by john banks - 10/24/2003 4:03:53 PM]

The Fixer

RB5, F.Y.I. The GEMS does get rid of the MAF and use a map based system and it also features knock control, VVT control, anti-lag, idle control with AC and launch control as standard. There are several cars around at 355 HP on VF35 running GEMS and 550 injectors. I went down the GEMS route but there are a few pitfalls..... Starting, cold or warm will NEVER be as good as the factory ECU! The software is not readily available so you cant take it to your local mapper and have slight adjustments done. There are alot more ECUTEK mappers around and thus you don't have to wait around for a very busy GEMS mapper. Good Things Come To Those Who Wait

[Edited by RSVR Racer - 10/25/2003 8:31:22 PM]

RB5_245

Thanks John, RSVR. Good bit of advice there. I think i'll go for the 3-port and map on the original ECU.

Who does mapping in scotland now then??

john banks

You'll need to go to England to get someone experienced and skilled to map your car with Ecutek. You could ask Andy Forrest if he would do you a PowerFC. He is near Edinburgh. Sam Elassar in Dundee may be able to do you a Link or GEMS. I am not aware of anyone else who is skilled and experienced in custom mapping Subarus in Scotland with a good track record.

RB5_245

Cheers.

Dave

The Fixer

RB5, did forget to mention though, that for the cost of an ECUTEK £750 'ish you get a new ECU which is very capable if you do decide to go further down the tuning route. The GEMS At £1595 all in (mapped and fitted) it is certainly a worth while enhancement. ECUTEK on the other hand is not modified in realtime and relies on an EPROM being flashed (new program downloaded to it) and then to see how or if the changes have worked correctly. Just consider how far down the tuning road you want to go, I'd hate you to spend on an ECUTEK and then later you have to buy an ECU and get it mapped....that £750 could be well spent on other goodies!

Conrad

hypoluxa

I have a GEMS ecu on a STi5-R. Idle control is spot on , as is cold start. Hot start is 99% right (550s with upped pressure and 6kg fly). Boost control (3 port) is rock solid at 1.7bar. MY99 ecu also includes launch control, antilag and center diff control, you can also switch between 2 maps on the fly.

5 Type R

hypoluxa

What kind of power are you hitting at 1.7bar?
Are you on standard internals?

RB5_245

At 340bhp, i'm finished. I won't go any higher on standard internals and drivetrain.

Looks like Ecutek is the way to go.

WREXY

Originally posted by Conrad The ECU is flashed, however once flashed, the car is checked with Delta Dash and remapped till it's right. It's not just flashed once and see you later. It is flashed, then checked and if needed a new map downloaded for as many times as is needed to get it right. It can take the mapper a good 3 hours or more to get it how he likes it.

Cheers,

George.

The Fixer

Wrexy, that was the point I was trying to get across but missed the part about re-flashing the eprom untill you got the desired map whereas GEMS and MOTEC maps are modified in real time or "on the fly" in programming terms i.e. no need to stop and flash the ECU just adjust the map and see the changes take effect as you go along.

WREXY

Understood now.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

hypoluxa

5 Type R,

Closed deck block with Cosworth pistons, Arrow rods and nitrided crank.



[Edited by hypoluxa - 10/27/2003 5:54:14 PM]