TEK2, who's confirmed bhp & torque?
09 May 2003, 09:41 AM
#1
The 10% bit was because it was at Powerstation rollers, if you add between 10 and 15% then it will be the same as the figures from Well lane, Power Engineering etc...
For example, the bottom line of 224bhp reading was with FULL decat, DP and air filter. I think that will give a little more than 4BHP up from standard.
But anyway, back to the topic - TEK2 def does increase torque and BHP from standard.
[Edited by Nezz10 - 9/5/2003 9:43:57 AM]
For example, the bottom line of 224bhp reading was with FULL decat, DP and air filter. I think that will give a little more than 4BHP up from standard.
But anyway, back to the topic - TEK2 def does increase torque and BHP from standard.
[Edited by Nezz10 - 9/5/2003 9:43:57 AM]
09 May 2003, 03:02 PM
#2
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I would say about 40 BHP over standard INCLUDING the full decat. So at our local rolling road that is about 255 BHP and similar torque (mainly because they don't make target boost on the rollers, on the road, road dyno suggests the torque is a bit higher). You can see from the reports that people are getting 280 + BHP with Tek 2/decat/induction on the more optimistic rolling roads.
How many 99/00 PPP cars do you see actually making 258 lbft on sensible rolling roads, how many STi PPP make 299 or 300 lbft? It is not that the cars are torqueless and don't make this I have no doubts at all, it is a measurement problem for torque IMHO.
FWIW, on a February Scottish day = cold, my MY00 PPP decat, induction and Dawes at 17 PSI (18 PSI on the road) only made 257 BHP and 257 lbft - 1 lbft below what PPP is quoted at without the decat, induction and Dawes.
Rolling roads give dubious results, take with a pinch of salt IMHO. That is why I never guaranteed RR figures, because it will always come back on you.
Rolling roads were not originally meant to be power measuring tools, but tools for mapping cars on - so you can control the engine speed closed loop by varying the load on the rollers and then adjust the fuelling and timing whilst in that zone to get best torque. The actual numbers are less relevant than seeing with what mapping you get best torque in a given zone IMHO. Unfortunately with a TMIC, the temperature rises and keeps rising on a lot of rollers to make this sort of mapping impractical - at 18 PSI on a TD04 and TMIC, within 20 seconds the intake temperature has breached 90 degrees C on our local rollers when I tried
On the road you are lucky to see 50 C with similar ambients.
[Edited by john banks - 9/5/2003 3:07:15 PM]
How many 99/00 PPP cars do you see actually making 258 lbft on sensible rolling roads, how many STi PPP make 299 or 300 lbft? It is not that the cars are torqueless and don't make this I have no doubts at all, it is a measurement problem for torque IMHO.
FWIW, on a February Scottish day = cold, my MY00 PPP decat, induction and Dawes at 17 PSI (18 PSI on the road) only made 257 BHP and 257 lbft - 1 lbft below what PPP is quoted at without the decat, induction and Dawes.
Rolling roads give dubious results, take with a pinch of salt IMHO. That is why I never guaranteed RR figures, because it will always come back on you.
Rolling roads were not originally meant to be power measuring tools, but tools for mapping cars on - so you can control the engine speed closed loop by varying the load on the rollers and then adjust the fuelling and timing whilst in that zone to get best torque. The actual numbers are less relevant than seeing with what mapping you get best torque in a given zone IMHO. Unfortunately with a TMIC, the temperature rises and keeps rising on a lot of rollers to make this sort of mapping impractical - at 18 PSI on a TD04 and TMIC, within 20 seconds the intake temperature has breached 90 degrees C on our local rollers when I tried
On the road you are lucky to see 50 C with similar ambients.[Edited by john banks - 9/5/2003 3:07:15 PM]
09 May 2003, 04:25 PM
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IMHO tuners/owners/builders/people in pubs 
etc, should stop quoting a final hp figure, such as a Tek 2 and decat etc will give you 280hp. It should be something along the lines of, with a Tek 2 and decat etc you will get between 30 and 40 extra horses over standard. That way when you know a Tek 2/decat etc gives you 30/40 extra horses over standard, and you quote this to the customer, you're covered because that will be the increase. An increase of 30/40 horses is by no means a small increase and does sound impressive.
This is just an example as I don't know how much a Tek 2 increases power by.
Cheers,
George.
[Edited by WREXY - 9/5/2003 4:36:41 PM]
etc, should stop quoting a final hp figure, such as a Tek 2 and decat etc will give you 280hp. It should be something along the lines of, with a Tek 2 and decat etc you will get between 30 and 40 extra horses over standard. That way when you know a Tek 2/decat etc gives you 30/40 extra horses over standard, and you quote this to the customer, you're covered because that will be the increase. An increase of 30/40 horses is by no means a small increase and does sound impressive.This is just an example as I don't know how much a Tek 2 increases power by.
Cheers,
George.
[Edited by WREXY - 9/5/2003 4:36:41 PM]
09 June 2003, 10:17 PM
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It will be intersting to see the outcome next weeks(RR)
(As my car is quicker than my friends STi8
I can pull away and catch no problem
I did not think it would be
as quick
[Edited by WRX Wannabe - 9/18/2003 4:40:45 PM]
(As my car is quicker than my friends STi8
I can pull away and catch no problem
I did not think it would be
as quick [Edited by WRX Wannabe - 9/18/2003 4:40:45 PM]
09 August 2003, 09:30 PM
#5
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Last year when mine was run at Well Lane with a JB Tek2.5, centre,backbox and a dodgy MAF and knackered Lambda it made 263BHP at 6458rpm, got the torque figure some where was around 250, so when we go back in October with all sensors fine and downpipe and uprated pump it'll be interesting to see the difference.
Jim
[Edited by jim litten - 9/8/2003 9:32:35 PM]
Jim
[Edited by jim litten - 9/8/2003 9:32:35 PM]
04 September 2003, 04:15 PM
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Anybody with a MY00 and full de-cat had their car on RR and had the claimed figures proven?
280 bhp & 265 torque.
I know it's subjective, ie different RR, different temps,etc.
Also who did the re-map?
Cheers
Jason
280 bhp & 265 torque.
I know it's subjective, ie different RR, different temps,etc.
Also who did the re-map?
Cheers
Jason
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04 September 2003, 04:24 PM
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I got about 260bhp and 250lb/ft on PE's rollers. MY99, TEK2.5 (slightly higher boost than TEK2 and held longer), decat, K&N, samco hoses, Forge DV.
That was running about 1.05bar on the rollers. On the road I would hit 1.2/1.25 bar, so I don't really see the point in rollers anymore as its not a true indication!
That was running about 1.05bar on the rollers. On the road I would hit 1.2/1.25 bar, so I don't really see the point in rollers anymore as its not a true indication!
04 September 2003, 10:02 PM
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I had mine done with Tek2 and was RR @ 255.4BHP(Flywheel)
& 251.7 Lbs/Ft torque But Temp was HIGH @33 deg C
Now have the Tek3 RE-MAPPED and am booked in for the RR day @ Extream
Classic UK Turbo full de-cat and induction kit.
BTW power los was 64.6BHP
is that normal????
& 251.7 Lbs/Ft torque But Temp was HIGH @33 deg C
Now have the Tek3 RE-MAPPED and am booked in for the RR day @ Extream
Classic UK Turbo full de-cat and induction kit.
BTW power los was 64.6BHP
is that normal????
05 September 2003, 06:45 AM
#13
Below you can see my graph from Powerstation with my old car.
MY00, full decat, ITG air filter, scoobysport DP.
240bhp / 224lb-ft
Sorry for got to say that the OEM ECU is the bottom line and the TEK 2 is the top line
So according to Powerstation, with full decat and an air filter on the OEM ECU I had 224bhp, when they start with 220bhp, hmmmm.....
Where as if we add 10% to the TEK2 figures 264bhp/246lb-ft which looks more like it.
[Edited by Nezz10 - 9/5/2003 6:49:16 AM]
MY00, full decat, ITG air filter, scoobysport DP.
240bhp / 224lb-ft
Sorry for got to say that the OEM ECU is the bottom line and the TEK 2 is the top line
So according to Powerstation, with full decat and an air filter on the OEM ECU I had 224bhp, when they start with 220bhp, hmmmm.....
Where as if we add 10% to the TEK2 figures 264bhp/246lb-ft which looks more like it.
[Edited by Nezz10 - 9/5/2003 6:49:16 AM]
05 September 2003, 09:04 AM
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Nezz10,
why have you added 10% to the tek2 reading when the original ecu reading was only 1.8% over?
if I apply what I think you are doing, it gives your tek2 a reading of 244bhp, not 264.
why have you added 10% to the tek2 reading when the original ecu reading was only 1.8% over?
if I apply what I think you are doing, it gives your tek2 a reading of 244bhp, not 264.
05 September 2003, 10:48 AM
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It would appear that TEK2 will make the figures claimed for some cars and not for others.
However I was speaking to a well known company yesterday (they do sell Ecutek products so it's not biased)and they said a UK turbo was unlikely to make these figures due to the turbo running out of puff.
I have a TEK2 re-map on my car and am disappointed with it to say the least. If it's got 280/265 I'll eat my hat. I've swapped between the remapped ecu and a std one and there seems to be little or no difference between them. It's not very scientific I know and when I get time I will try them back to back on a RR but at this point in time it's £650 + VAT wasted.
FWIW I had a MY97 full decat, ITG filter and std ecu, Well lane RR showed 237/227 and it pulled harder through the gears to the redline than the MY00.
Just my experience, Ecutek is probably a good product for some people. Me? I'm not impressed.
Jason
However I was speaking to a well known company yesterday (they do sell Ecutek products so it's not biased)and they said a UK turbo was unlikely to make these figures due to the turbo running out of puff.
I have a TEK2 re-map on my car and am disappointed with it to say the least. If it's got 280/265 I'll eat my hat. I've swapped between the remapped ecu and a std one and there seems to be little or no difference between them. It's not very scientific I know and when I get time I will try them back to back on a RR but at this point in time it's £650 + VAT wasted.
FWIW I had a MY97 full decat, ITG filter and std ecu, Well lane RR showed 237/227 and it pulled harder through the gears to the redline than the MY00.
Just my experience, Ecutek is probably a good product for some people. Me? I'm not impressed.
Jason
05 September 2003, 10:56 AM
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Just a suggestion,
If you have both ECU's, find a quiet country road. Time the 50-70mph times of both in say 3rd gear and fourth gear. Don't change gear during the timing so that any differences in gear changing times is erradicated.
IMHO this will show if the Tek2 is providing the oompth or not. I personally find a few tenths of a second quicker and I do not feel it by the seat of my pants.
Look at the PPP pack for the STi8 it's £2k and only provides fractions of a second off acceleration times.
Damian.
If you have both ECU's, find a quiet country road. Time the 50-70mph times of both in say 3rd gear and fourth gear. Don't change gear during the timing so that any differences in gear changing times is erradicated.
IMHO this will show if the Tek2 is providing the oompth or not. I personally find a few tenths of a second quicker and I do not feel it by the seat of my pants.
Look at the PPP pack for the STi8 it's £2k and only provides fractions of a second off acceleration times.
Damian.
05 September 2003, 11:53 AM
#17
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jaycee - If i was you i would contact the person who Tek'd your car. I'm sure they would be happy to look at any issues you have with it.
A while back there was someone who was unhappy with their Tek and the company concerned travelled to Liverpool to sort it out. The owner IIRC is now more than happy
Give it a go .
A while back there was someone who was unhappy with their Tek and the company concerned travelled to Liverpool to sort it out. The owner IIRC is now more than happy
Give it a go .
05 September 2003, 01:05 PM
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Thanks so far for the replies- keep 'em coming.
Damian- I've done this already and timed between 2 set markers with a stopwatch, in 3rd, 2500 revs and floor it, same time and mph indicated. I did it several times to allow for rection time etc.
Brun- I remember the thread, I'll see if they fancy a trip up to Yorkshire!!
The price does include a custom map on the car but I haven't had or got the time to travel to them in the near future.
Nezz10- Maybe it does increases the figures, but I'm not convinced by the amount some tuners are claiming. Which surely has to be mis-representation?
Mark- I can see you're as impressed as I am then! Obviously not value for money.
Who did yours? Mail me off-line if you prefer.
Jason
Damian- I've done this already and timed between 2 set markers with a stopwatch, in 3rd, 2500 revs and floor it, same time and mph indicated. I did it several times to allow for rection time etc.
Brun- I remember the thread, I'll see if they fancy a trip up to Yorkshire!!
The price does include a custom map on the car but I haven't had or got the time to travel to them in the near future.
Nezz10- Maybe it does increases the figures, but I'm not convinced by the amount some tuners are claiming. Which surely has to be mis-representation?
Mark- I can see you're as impressed as I am then! Obviously not value for money.
Who did yours? Mail me off-line if you prefer.
Jason
05 September 2003, 01:12 PM
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Jaycee,
I had an MY00 and with Dawes, decat and PPP it ran 283bhp at well lane. I met up with another guy who an MY00 and his had done 260bhp and was decatted with standard ECU.
We did some tests back to back IIRC it was 30-50mph. Tried second gear, third gear and then fourth gear. Second gear was about 0.4 secs difference. Third gear and fourth about 0.2 secs. So there were differences albeit small.
Damian.
I had an MY00 and with Dawes, decat and PPP it ran 283bhp at well lane. I met up with another guy who an MY00 and his had done 260bhp and was decatted with standard ECU.
We did some tests back to back IIRC it was 30-50mph. Tried second gear, third gear and then fourth gear. Second gear was about 0.4 secs difference. Third gear and fourth about 0.2 secs. So there were differences albeit small.
Damian.
05 September 2003, 01:27 PM
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Something worth mentioning is that while BHP And TQ are what we are really after it is good to know that a car that has been 'properly' tuned by EcuTek should be a lot SAFER than a car that has just had a decat and induction done and no remmap performed. Paying for just the safety increase is almost worth the money to me but it's nice to get the BHP and TQ benefits as well
For some 15 - 30 BHP and TQ increase with greatly increased 'safety' is well worth the money....imho
Cheers,
Ray
For some 15 - 30 BHP and TQ increase with greatly increased 'safety' is well worth the money....imho
Cheers,
Ray
05 September 2003, 01:38 PM
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De-cats and induction seemed safe enough to all these companies BEFORE they started selling Ecutek re-maps so I'm afraid I don't hold with that.
I paid for a claimed power increase, if it's not safe to reach these claimed figures then I wouldn't do it. Simple as.
Jason
I paid for a claimed power increase, if it's not safe to reach these claimed figures then I wouldn't do it. Simple as.
Jason
05 September 2003, 02:41 PM
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Nice results Kenny where it really matters in real life, FWIW I don't think that you would score more than 250-260 Scottish BHP, being as Scottish horses are tougher and wear kilts However, cars with just decats are getting this at Well Lane. Wonder if they would trouble your car on a 1/4? Suspect not.
There is no safety issue with decats on MY99/00 UK cars IMHO.
Bear in mind guys a 99/00 PPP is 237 BHP (and yes I really think it is that not a vast figure over it, I also think a standard car is 215 BHP), how the hell are you going to get 43 BHP more than that with only a downpipe and an ECU running similar boost? IMHO the PPP ECU is pretty good, maybe you can get up to 10 BHP more by running a little extra boost (go beyond that on plain pump fuel and I found you lose power), but they already go to town on the ignition advance by keeping it quite rich and the boost sensible, and IMHO are pretty close to safe optimal. Maybe another 10 BHP out of a downpipe? Brings you to about 250-260 again.
If you start with rollers that run a standard car at 20 BHP above book then clearly you are being optimistic, but then might be looking at 270-280 BHP.
However, cars with just decats are getting this at Well Lane. Wonder if they would trouble your car on a 1/4? Suspect not.There is no safety issue with decats on MY99/00 UK cars IMHO.
Bear in mind guys a 99/00 PPP is 237 BHP (and yes I really think it is that not a vast figure over it, I also think a standard car is 215 BHP), how the hell are you going to get 43 BHP more than that with only a downpipe and an ECU running similar boost? IMHO the PPP ECU is pretty good, maybe you can get up to 10 BHP more by running a little extra boost (go beyond that on plain pump fuel and I found you lose power), but they already go to town on the ignition advance by keeping it quite rich and the boost sensible, and IMHO are pretty close to safe optimal. Maybe another 10 BHP out of a downpipe? Brings you to about 250-260 again.
If you start with rollers that run a standard car at 20 BHP above book then clearly you are being optimistic, but then might be looking at 270-280 BHP.
05 September 2003, 02:50 PM
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John- As a very well respected tuner, put your head on the block for me and tell me- Are the figures 280/265, as quoted by various tuners, something you're likely to see on a UK turbo with full decat with a TEK2 re-map?
Jason
Jason
05 September 2003, 03:54 PM
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Thanks for the reply John! 
But if a tuner claims a certain power output then the car must reach this figure, as a minimum, regardless of which RR is used. I could build a Rolling Road which showed everybody had 350bhp which of course they wouldn't have.
I am begining to think that some companies are in breach of trade descriptions when they are advertising and selling this product.
This is not a witch hunt against anybody in particular or the product but 255 is not 280. I was charged £650 + VAT and that is what I paid, maybe I should've told them the internal temperature of my wallet would only let me reach £400 but on a cold day, with the wind in the right direction, I might be able to stretch to £500!!
Jason
But if a tuner claims a certain power output then the car must reach this figure, as a minimum, regardless of which RR is used. I could build a Rolling Road which showed everybody had 350bhp which of course they wouldn't have.
I am begining to think that some companies are in breach of trade descriptions when they are advertising and selling this product.
This is not a witch hunt against anybody in particular or the product but 255 is not 280. I was charged £650 + VAT and that is what I paid, maybe I should've told them the internal temperature of my wallet would only let me reach £400 but on a cold day, with the wind in the right direction, I might be able to stretch to £500!!
Jason
05 September 2003, 05:07 PM
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Jaycee,
If you're not happy with it then why don't you just get a refund and return to your standard ecu. Last time I looked at the EcuTek website they were so confident of their product that they were happy enough to do this...
If you're not happy with it then why don't you just get a refund and return to your standard ecu. Last time I looked at the EcuTek website they were so confident of their product that they were happy enough to do this...