Andy.F

Steve

Does it need to be a bolt-on ? Custom up/down pipe doesn't add too much to the cost.

http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=714

This will make 500bhp without losing much bottom end.

Andy

[Edited by Andy.F - 7/3/2003 9:42:34 PM]

David_Wallis

Carlos Well Said.. erm No.

I have a lateral performance GT30 or GT 40... **** me beer doesnt do owt for knowing model numbers is it a Hybrid... turbo what? super dooper charger

When Im sober Ill try and work excel and post the compressor (not machine mart's) flow map.. surge line? Ill zoom in and find it for you all

Seriously though steve.. if you want a turbo and up-pipe and down pipe im negotiating getting some done at cheap cheap prices

Ps.. have a look at adams figures then mail him and ask hi about those 'special' turbo's then again it could be hot air

David

[Edited by David_Wallis - 7/4/2003 9:38:38 AM]

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

I'm after some advice on open deck 2.0 litre Scooby Blocks

Can our Australian friends comment on what they feel the probable limit of an open deck block is? - someone must have gone well over 500bhp on a 2.0litre............

My question really is will the 2.0 litre open deck block cope with say 550bhp?

btw - this is a serious question

Bob Rawle

We have cars running up to 2.0 bar boost on an open deck block, the sort of power you talk about is dependant on a complete spec of engine and ancilliaries not just a single parameter. What else have you in mind?

bob

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

I'm talking about a reasonable and driveable limit of the engine with say pre-reqs of:

High lift cams
Pistons
Rods
Injection/pump/regulator - fuelling suffienct to achieve 550bhp
ECU
Airflow capable of 550bhp
Garrett Turbo as bolt on's NOT capable...... due to exhuast housing restrictions

David_Wallis

You can go to 500 with a bolt on turbo.. what you are being told is bollocks..

At the end of the day you can have a 'bolt on package' including aftermarket turbo and external wastegate... if you mean std dp or std turbo loc. its still not really a prob.

re open deck are you on about the spec you have??

Are you running head studs??

David

submannz

It is the boost they are running that causing the issues, it causes the bores to collapse in on each other. But any good engineering shop can alloy weld some blocks in the open deck to strengthen it.

Plus 550Hp where at the flywheel or wheels? makes a huge difference.

[Edited by submannz - 6/30/2003 4:13:59 AM]

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

At the flywheel power

Dave - No studs yet - shame that this was not done on the engine previously - as pretty simply and good thing to do!

Who can supply a bolt on turbo capable of 500bhp - Turbo Dyanamics inform that the most powerful is circa 450-460 hence the one that achived 465bhp is right on the limits and I'm informed that adding cams to this turbo will not release any more power - this is direct from TD - I have been categorically informed that this will not get 500bhp despite being informed by others that it will - I'll take my advice from the people that make them! - Taaaaa

Dave - I drove into the Nitrous place and straight back out again - a portacabin down a dodgy lane in a dodgy area - dont think so

Anywhere else in the UK - that is 'good' with nitrous (i.e. has the experience)

Dave - my spec plus a 'few' extra's!

David_Wallis

talk to someone that knows about cams then..

Trust me you can do over 500.. andy forrest is very close with his..

Busy at work will reply later.
David

Bob Rawle

It should be possible as David says, I've increased my power by 32 bhp (AP22 checked b4 and after) by tweaking and optimising and I know the turbo is not at its limits, my fuel map tells me that .... my cams are though. The amount you can achieve is not just about the turbo, a 600 bhp turbo won't make that without everything else being right for it. If you are going to use an open deck block it should be used with studs as a minimum, the STi7 block is a much better starting point for a two litre. 500 is my own current target, phase 3 is imminent and I don't plan to change the turbo.

bob

Pavlo

Worth pointing out that the turbo that Bob is using, is the one Turbo Dynamics are referring to.

Given that we've seen 440hp (conservative) from a turbo with a smaller exhaust housing, I don't see it as a huge problem. Although it may not be ideal, there are ways to make it's effect as minimal as possible.

I've had an open deck block welded, and I disagree with Submannz, it's not something "any" welder or engine shop can do. I gave a scrap block to my welder to test, and he has a lot of experience specifically welding alumnium castings.

The main problem appears to be very slight movement of bores leading to head gasket failure, but this is a commonly held theory rather than cast iron fact. Good head studs will minimise the problem, as will good gaskets. I have used a custom made (by Cometic, only custom thing is thickness) 3 layer steel gasket, some swear by copper with steel wire ring. But I would say use what your local engine builder is most happy with with doing properly, no good experimenting on expensive engines.

Do you have a difficulty in getting a closed deck block? Or do you already have an engine built into an open deck one?

Paul

Andy.F

David I'm still well away from 500bhp It's the price I pay for full boost at 3200rpm

Prior to Harvey fitting his AVC-R, his car was showing 50bhp more than my car on the AP22 during a quick blip at 32psi boost, this is from a 'bolt-on' turbo although not from Turbo Dynamics.

Andy

David_Wallis

Andy.. you know what I mean

submannz

550 at the flywheel should be fine, as I mentioned before the boost levels is the biggest factor for open deck failure.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

For those that have not twigged, Fangoria is aka Steve McCulloch, i believe he lost his password for his SM user name.

Steven

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Damn the covers blown!

Yes - given that certain tuning companies are too busy then one has to consider other avenues!!

Andy.F

Steve, If you don't want to be a 'test dummy' any longer speak to Harvey, he can sort you out with a 500bhp turbo no problem, he has done a lot of development work in this area

Andy

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Hi Steve : In your previous incarnation I have already told you what I believe is needed for 500 RELIABLE bhp and indeed I am going down that route now with a 2.2 litre CDB sleeved down to 2 litres.

My turbo comes from Jack at Ion Performance www.jack@ionperformance.com

dfullerton

are all uk 2.2 leggy engines closed deck ? can wrx heads be put on thease

David_Wallis

Harvey... I suggest you wait!!!

Some news about doing this maybe availiable soon.. Just wait a week or two before you commit.

David

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Been waiting for "new developments" since last October.
What pistons are you using in your monster and is it past the short engine stage?
What piston clearances are you running?

David_Wallis

Lateral Pistons..

4 Thou. as per manufacturers specifications.. same as DTW Race Engines used on same pistons..

Engine is built.. Just waiting for a few little tweaks, compression ratio was the main problem.. (me being awkward..)

Seriously the power figures in the uk have been... <say no more>

David

Adam M

I can tell you the limit of a semi closed 2.5 block if you like.


568bhp and 562lbft.

Admittedly it was a liner not the block, but I reckon flexing caused it. Just gald it happened on dyno and not on road.

Despite bad news, am happy with figures, and thankfully we think the cracked liner was caught before any other components were hurt. Fingers crossed. It means finances permitting there is no reason why we cant just rebuild it with a new block, which I happen to have spare, only with thicker liners this time. Harvey certainly has the right idea with the liners.

engine is still crankable and oil pressure still normal.

by the way, it made 542lbft at 3500rpm, and held over 500lbft up to and over 6000rpm. was making over 500bhp at 7500rpm.

Think mark is posting figures on 22b.com for me as I dont have the software.

R19KET

Adam,

Yes, info, and graphs are posted on 22b, with the help of Carlos for the graphs

I know you don't have the dyno print outs, but please don't exagerate, you only got 561ftlbs, not 562ftlbs ! AND, it was 567BHP, not 568BHP !!!

Don't want anyone accusing you of cheating !

Mark.

john banks

Bodes well for the 2.33 builds then I hope - a little less power, a little bit more rigidity.

Pavlo

2.5 bore wall thickness is quite thin, much thinner than the 2.0 compared to the bore.

I am not convinced it's an inherent problem with the block, as mark has done the same exercise without (that paticular) problem. Although I do wonder about the ridgidity of the "semi" closed deck block.

My money is still on a flaw in the liner.

They are only 0.125" thick as standard, less 0.010" for the rebore leaves not huge amount, but thinner liners have been known.

I have spoken to Perfect Bore to see what they could do a while ago, and they have some interesting stuff.

paul

Adam M

paul,

which rebore are you referring to?

do you mean the rebore when they change it from 99.5 to 100mm bore?

Pavlo

Yes adam, just the 0.5mm rebore.

I have another block at home, will measure the unbored liners.

Paul

Andy.F

Nice one Adam Or at least it will be one day, once the reliability is sorted out
Was this using the std wall thickness on the Cobb welded block ? ie no re-linering ?

Andy

Adam M

don't think the cobb blocks were relinered andy.