WREXY

Could the following be a reason as to why there are less failures in OZ and more in Europe?

In Australia the speed limit is only 110kph (roughly 67mph). Hardly anyone exceeds this anymore, (in Sydney at least), it is that strict over there. When I left OZ in June 2000 some people were still doing high speeds. I was in OZ this June for 3 weeks and returned back to Greece last week. While I was there I saw no one going over 100kph (61mph)let alone sit on the speed limit of 110kph, that's how aware everyone is of trying to not go over the speed limit. I observed that the driving style in OZ is more quick acceleration runs, i.e. 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear blasts then backing off. Not much high speed driving in high gears which means not much stress on the engine.

In the UK and Europe high speed driving is very common which could be a reason for more failures. Any comments?

Cheers,

George.



[Edited by WREXY - 7/1/2003 2:49:28 PM]

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Hi! all, Just to add further confusion, I have been told recently that IM have a service bulletin out right now that blames engine failure immediately after a service as the unit having been OVER FILLED with oil !! Yeah I know, beats me too.

I know that EJ20 variants don't like too much oil as it gets up in the capillary tubes and then causes a CEL light and then an amount of 'safe mode' control by the ECU. [Deliberatly non technical] But apparently their thinking is that the excess oil is sloshing up into the bores and somehow causing an overload of the bearing shells.

They cite the 3 marks on the Subaru dipstick as the problem, 1/ the lower 'empty' notch; 2 the higher 'max' mark and then the cut out above the max mark. Seems that it has been considered that it is possibly construed that the upper mark above the max is the level to fill to from dry [ including oil filter !!**!!] and that this is causing an overfill.

Seems very confusing to me and in my opinion probably not really a valid cause but hey!! They are the masters LOL.

I wonder if they considered the dry fill part of the equation ??

David



[Edited by APIDavid - 7/3/2003 8:19:18 PM]

johngunn666

Guys.

My car is an Impreza WRX Sti Version 5. Car is 3.5 years old and has 48k miles on clock. Car has never been raced on a track and is standard ie no engine upgrades. Car serviced every 6 months by a specialist garage (Subaru UK would not service it). Last service was on June 12th and car developed serious rattle in engine bay on June 15th; not used since. Local Subaru dealer has car and advises that big end has gone and needs an engine out, strip down and bottom end rebuild (cost is circa £6k!!). Has anyone else experienced engine failure at such a young age car and fairly low mileage? To cap it off it turns out that the garage that serviced the car has been using Castrol GTX Magnetec rather than a fully synthetic oil; could this have caused the engine failure? I would like to go after them for the cost of the repairs if possible.

John.

R19KET

John,

Sadly, this is not uncommon. It's also fairly common for it to happen very shortly after a service.

In these circumstances, general opinion, is that it "may" be due to the procedure the garage uses to change the oil.

It's important to make sure the filter is pre-filled, and that the crank sensor is disconnected, and the plugs removed before turning the engine over a few times to get oil pressure.

I'm sure that most garages won't follow this procedure, and will get away with it 99% of the time.

Whilst I'm sure that some will disagree, there's no way I would either use, or recommend the oil you mentioned.

It could all just be a coincidence, and bad luck of course.

Mark.

jjones

could not carrying out that procedure really lead to failure of a bearing?

those few seconds that the oil pressure is low (ie when first firing it up after an oil change) can it really make that much difference? is the crankshaft not partly in the oil in the sump anyhow and hence bearings are (semi) lubricated?

was the car run on super unleaded and octane booster? does it have a knock link? have your over revved it (ie 5 to 3rd at too high a road speed)?



[Edited by jjones - 6/25/2003 7:44:06 AM]

velohead66

Yes, I had an engine failure not so long ago, and am currently running in the engine after a new crankshaft.

WRX Type R V-Limited (not STI). MY98

Always used either 97 RON or Optimax when that came out in the UK.
Always used Mobil 1 15w50 in the UK, and always used Mobil 1 in NZ. However, reading the small print (ok, the front of the canister then) Mobil 1 over here is actually 5w50.

I wonder if this contributed ??

Last Subaru Service was the 50,000 km service, but I had done one oil change myself between the Subaru service and the failure.

Asked the Subaru guy who did the work some questions.
He said he put in Fully Synthetic (FS) and to do the first oil change at 10,000 km.
Scoobynet (and other BBS) said put in mineral, change at 250 & 1000 miles then go for FS.

Mmmmm - conflicting advice everywhere.

I now fill the oil filter with oil, as most advise this.




[Edited by velohead66 - 6/25/2003 8:14:06 AM]

THOMO

a racing company i know was given magnetec free for a promotion two engines went bottom end.this is now the sixth person this year that i know with this problem.make up your own mind i know what i think.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Firstly, there is nothing wrong with Castrol Magnatec. With a run-in engine I, along with the majority of people here, prefer full synthetic, although Magnatec is a good semi-synthetic alternative.
Initial start-up after oil change will almost always involve a very short period of no oil pressure, this really should'nt be a problem as there is a boundary layer of oil in the bearings, plus our engines run with a low compression ratio which reduces load on the bearings. The important thing is not to load the engine.
There are many cars whose oil filter is fitted at an angle or even vertically and despite there being a crude one-way valve in the filter, oil drains back and re-starts are often with a partly empty filter. This happens maybe two, three, four times a day? My daughters MR2 is like this and has 105,000 on the clock!
Catastrophic bearing failure is very rare these days, in the case of the Subaru I have a nasty feeling design compromises have a lot to do with it.
JohnD

THOMO

dont shout johny your hurting my ears.
the above was a fact what can i say.
subaru uk reccomend mineral oil not semi
i agree with the design

[Edited by THOMO - 6/25/2003 9:19:21 AM]

Dizzy

who serviced your car?

and which subaru garage did you go to?

"subaru uk reccomend mineral oil not semi" er.. no they dont!

Nimbus

With out wanting this to get into another "oil" debate..., I've had Castrol Magnatec 10w40 in my MY95 since I bought it over 4 1/2 years ago. Dealer used it. I still use it. Car has done nearly 170,000 miles with no smoke, noise etc. I doubt the type of oil used is a sole factor.

Cheers

[Edited by Nimbus - 6/25/2003 11:29:56 AM]

Ken E

GTX Magnatec was in my sti when I bought it, and had been used all the time in it and engine is OK. I did change it straight away though, for Mobil 1 15/50 and a new filter.

I think it depends on how the car is driven. I seem to remember subaru recommending a semi synthetic oil but the general opinion is use a full synth and make sure it isn't too thin.

For general driving semi is probably OK, as is 5/40, but if you plan to drive it hard then you need a better fully synthetic thicker oil.

don't know about the running in bit, hoping I never have to do that unless I buy a new car, which is not planned.

If you do a search on big ends then you will find a number of factors can contribute to failure, type/brand of oil being one.

6k sounds a lot for a rebuild, shop around, the average on here is less.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

There may be an issue if you used 5w/30 oil whilst balsting up and down the motorway for long durations everyday.

Anyhoo, is Magnatec 10w/30? So no probs there.

Although I did hear problem with magnatec used in Jaguar XK engines. But obviously these are well worn engines and should be running on what was put in the first place (like 15w or 20w) unless they are re-built.

I use Magnatec in my scoob, so if it goes bang I'll let you know

johnfelstead

always pre fill the oil filter, this can take 10 minutes to do as the oil takes its time to go through the filter elements, you have to keep topping it up till it wont take any more, then screw it onto the engine.

Dont run your import on SUL or Optimax alone, it's not good enough, you need to run an Octane booster too or get a remap for UK fuel.

Running in, you should change the oil at 1000 miles, not at 250.

I use castrol RS 10/60 in my engine.

johnfelstead

also, £6K is way too expensive, you should be paying a lot less than that for a standard spec rebuild!

V-techland

Speak to AUTOSPORTIF in Bicester (Nr Oxford)

Get the no from 192

My friend had the same on the same type of car!! Autosportif are excellent! really good service and really know their stuff!

Give them a call, they will advise you better

For £6000 you wanna be having an absolute WEAPON, not just a 'repaired' car!

turbo2000

Magnatec thats whats my dealer puts in and had no probs so why change

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

JG 666 yhm

5 Type R

As mentioned before, I wouldnt touch Autosportif with a barge pole

Dont doubt there pedigree or ability.
Just that there customer relations is far from acceptable.
Wouldnt part with any of my hard earned cash in the future

Just my 2p

THOMO

6k rebuild you can buy an impreza for that.last i remembered autosportif where charching £700 labour and you supplied the parts
or they would.i dont know about there customer relations but he knows what hes talking about.he does warranty his engines .he uses larger pistons and longer sleeves.graham goode racing sell all internal stuff.good luck anyway.

mart360

Hi all,

just to put my piece in..

according to my owners handbook

mineral oil should be used and i use semi synth

Mart

johngunn666

Guys.

Thanks for the advice; it seems like I am in sh*t street though!

It seems that £6k for the rebuild is too high so I will shop around. I will also go back to the garage that serviced it (called ??) and mention the bits above. ?? have serviced the car 5 nr times out of a total of 8 nr services, each time they used Magnatex.

Generally I do not over rev the Sti as peak BHP is at 6500rpm whilst the rev limiter is set at 8500rpm (I think); it's rare for me to rev above 6500rpm. The day in question was very hot though so that might have something to do with it?

?? called me today to say that they have used Magnetex for the last 10 years (huh, I thought that Magnatex is a fairly new oil?) for all Subaru services. Their opinion is that the oil pump might have got some air in it (as a result of high speed!) which has starved the engine of oil; apparently some garages recommend upgrading the fuel pump to a beefier model to avoid such a thing happening.

John.

[Edited by johngunn666 - 7/16/2003 12:37:51 AM]

johnfelstead

the red line on the STi5 is 7900rpm, rev imiter kicks in at 8050rpm. This isnt Rev counter readings though, as the rev counter under reads by almost 300rpm at the top end which is why you get people saying this engine revs to 8200rpm. I only learned this recently after installing my SECS monitor, Pat noticed this a long time ago after i stumbled accross one of his writings.

The oil pump is capable of the max revs the engine can pull without any problems.

I personally wouldnt use magnatec in an STi engine, especially if you were going to be driving the car hard. Turbo engines need a good quality oil which is why i use the Castrol RS 10/60.

One area i feel is worth looking at is the fuel pump, did you ever get any fuel surge problems? What fuel did you run? you should be running SUL/Optimax plus an octane booster on the standard japanese engine map.

Have you modified it at all? replaced the air filter with an oiled one? decated the exhaust?

greg.g

I have an MY98 uk wagon. About 3 months after i bought it from a
scooby dealer last year with 38000 on the clock, my crank went pop
Subaru played fair though, and re-built my engine as it was still under waranty.
When i asked what had caused it, i was told that a shell had gone
and that the fault could have been present since manufacture.

All better now though

Greg

THOMO

funny really i went my friends porsche carrera 4 today mind blowing speed, no comparison at all compared to my scooby. no knocklink or optimax worries bottomend melted pistons etc .serviced regular take it on track at weekends and go home.i just had to laugh at that."reassuringly expensive to buy and reassuringly expensive to run"anyway back to my sensitive impreza grrrrrawl.

[Edited by THOMO - 6/25/2003 8:19:57 PM]

greg.g

Bet it doesnt have a clock dimming switch though

Greg

THOMO

LOL

johngunn666

johnfelstead.

I always try to use Optimax but sometimes get forced to use super unleaded when there is no Shell garage around (never used regular unleaded). I have not ever used an octane booster though; I thought that Optimax is 99 RON which is pretty close to the 100 RON that they get in Japan? Do you think that not using a booster could cause a problem?

Car is not engine/filter mofified at all ie standard as out of the Sti factory (set of 18" wheels is only mod).

My problem with this (big end problem) is that a Subaru is supposed to be reliable; to quote a magazine "the engine is robust and reliable if serviced regularly"; my motor has been serviced every 6 months on the button at fairly serious expense (cam belt change service cost £450!).

I am positive that ?? have f*cked the car during the service but it will be difficult to prove.

John.

PS

Fuel surge - no idea what this is let alone if I might have had a problem with it!!

[Edited by johngunn666 - 6/26/2003 12:36:23 AM]

[Edited by johngunn666 - 7/16/2003 12:38:56 AM]

LB4

To confuse matters more its not just fuel grade that can cause det., heat soak into the intercooler and then a hard run can cause det. and given you was running 98 octane instead of the mapped for 100 the ECU may have a hard time coping with this.
I find it hard to beleive that using Magnetex would cause problems on its own, there has to be other contributing factors.

Gary

camk

Could also just be faulty component in original manufacturing process. I'm sceptical its the oil given its wide spread usage, fuel supply issue's with STi's appear to be an issue in a number of major engine failures but you are unlikley to ever know 100% what caused it. You'll get a mechanic's opinion, bottom line is that its difficult to really know.
I'd look at a rebuild at a specialist raher than a dealer, think about upgrading the bottom end while they have it out, the cost increase is minimun in comparison to the peace of mind you'll have.

Regards
Cammy