432 BHP on standard internals :- )
02 February 2003, 07:20 PM
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Well Lane today >>> 432bhp @ 6900rpm and 360lb-ft at 5500rpm
Boost 1.6 held, 1.7 midrange overboost, 1 bar from 2800 rpm.
Power/torque at 5250 crossover was 355
Not quite in line with the AP22 datalogs so there is still some slip
but not a bad result from the lightly loaded rollers at Well Lane 
(must try P/Eng sometime 
)
I'll post the graph later for those that like that sort of thing
Andy
Boost 1.6 held, 1.7 midrange overboost, 1 bar from 2800 rpm.
Power/torque at 5250 crossover was 355
Not quite in line with the AP22 datalogs so there is still some slip
but not a bad result from the lightly loaded rollers at Well Lane (must try P/Eng sometime )I'll post the graph later for those that like that sort of thing
Andy
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03 February 2003, 12:26 AM
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Cheers guys
More to come once I get the chance to change the fuel and ignition maps (std at the moment) I have had a taste of things to come as I have been working with Paul (Pavlo) to remap the JECS.
An interim map was giving the same bhp and 20lb-ft more torque using 0.2 bar less boost pressure It was not fully debugged prior to WL4 so it has not yet been used.
I believe the 2.5 car of Christians made around 360bhp. The big turbo wasn't spooling quickly enough to give the full boost pressure on the rollers. Well Lane rollers accelerate similar to say a 3rd gear run on the road.
That's why IMHO you need a turbo that is 'just' big enough for the job, in order to keep the quick spool up and instant response available for acceleration
Andy
More to come once I get the chance to change the fuel and ignition maps (std at the moment) I have had a taste of things to come as I have been working with Paul (Pavlo) to remap the JECS.
An interim map was giving the same bhp and 20lb-ft more torque using 0.2 bar less boost pressure
It was not fully debugged prior to WL4 so it has not yet been used.I believe the 2.5 car of Christians made around 360bhp. The big turbo wasn't spooling quickly enough to give the full boost pressure on the rollers. Well Lane rollers accelerate similar to say a 3rd gear run on the road.
That's why IMHO you need a turbo that is 'just' big enough for the job, in order to keep the quick spool up and instant response available for acceleration
Andy
03 February 2003, 02:48 AM
#10
Forrest: You are to be congratulated, even more so as almost all the work is your own and the achievement in relation to what you have spent should get a lot of recognition.Fantastic.
Nothing going on really, other than some of us have had the wisdom to move away from the established route and get good results.
Smith.
Nothing going on really, other than some of us have had the wisdom to move away from the established route and get good results.
Smith.
03 February 2003, 06:57 AM
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I believe the 2.5 car of Christians made around 360bhp.
It is a very good result - the unconventional route is proven - which is obviously why the 'other' big power two litre cars have all had rebuilds
Trout
, just read the results list in northern, like last week
03 February 2003, 01:19 PM
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There are many things I could say, 'congratulations', 'well done', 'amazing', etc.
BUT
There is only one thing I'm gonna say.........
Put me down for a passenger ride
BUT
There is only one thing I'm gonna say.........
Put me down for a passenger ride
03 February 2003, 01:37 PM
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Andy,
Well done.
BTW: I remember you had an issue with the engine at one point not long ago, and I seem to recall reading something about you having fitted sti forged pistons or something when you reassembled it... Is this the case? If so, what spec is the engine now? Is it a regular closed deck phase one type RA with later forged STI pistons?
Moray
Well done.
BTW: I remember you had an issue with the engine at one point not long ago, and I seem to recall reading something about you having fitted sti forged pistons or something when you reassembled it... Is this the case? If so, what spec is the engine now? Is it a regular closed deck phase one type RA with later forged STI pistons?
Moray
03 February 2003, 04:13 PM
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Trout
When you say rebuilds do you mean upgraded internals ?
Correct me if I am wrong but Christians 1bar was not through choice, it was as much as it could provide in the (short) time given for run up.
I 'suspect' it will feel quite laggy on the road. (only my opinion)
Moray
The engine has a set of 'standard' sti pistons fitted. I bought them secondhand from Mark for £100
Andy
When you say rebuilds do you mean upgraded internals ?
Correct me if I am wrong but Christians 1bar was not through choice, it was as much as it could provide in the (short) time given for run up.
I 'suspect' it will feel quite laggy on the road. (only my opinion)
Moray
The engine has a set of 'standard' sti pistons fitted. I bought them secondhand from Mark for £100
Andy
03 February 2003, 04:45 PM
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Sweet. Thanks Andy. So, given your cars vintage, you have Closed Deck Block, Oilspray piston cooling and now STI (~v4) forged pistons... sounds like a fairly strong combination of standard bits. I just hope the OE rods don't let you down like they did me!
I just hope the OE rods don't let you down like they did me!
03 February 2003, 05:15 PM
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Moray, you make it sound special !! The block is the same as most 93 - 95 imports
IIRC one of the determining factors in your rods life was the fact that (unknown to you) someone had fitted the heavier WRX pistons to them ? although the car still had an sti (8250 ?) rpm limit
My crappy WRX 7.8mm lift cams dictate that the power drops off from 7k, therefore I don't rev the car past this point even although the original red line is 7500 and my pistons are now 90 gms lighter.
You may be aware that I have done approx rod load calculations and I'm comfortable with the outcome.
Andy
ps I also drive with my fingers crossed
IIRC one of the determining factors in your rods life was the fact that (unknown to you) someone had fitted the heavier WRX pistons to them ? although the car still had an sti (8250 ?) rpm limit
My crappy WRX 7.8mm lift cams dictate that the power drops off from 7k, therefore I don't rev the car past this point even although the original red line is 7500 and my pistons are now 90 gms lighter.
You may be aware that I have done approx rod load calculations and I'm comfortable with the outcome.
Andy
ps I also drive with my fingers crossed
03 February 2003, 05:59 PM
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Andy,
I wasn't saying it was in any way special. I simply mentioned that STI pistons you fitted would work well with the standard cdb and oil squirters with regards to thermal management and physical strength. Obviously the lighter pistons will have a very significant positive effect on the rods life.
I am not the only person to suffer rod failure. I am 99% sure of the cause of mine, however, rev limit and piston mass doesn not explain all OE rod failures i know off.
I can't remember you mentioning that you fitted STI pistons anywhere in the thread though, so I thing my checking this was not wrong, especially regarding the title you chose. I would expect more from your OE parts hybrid than from a purely OE spec engine of its vintage. This makes it slightly more "special" than true OE spec in my eyes.
Moray
I wasn't saying it was in any way special. I simply mentioned that STI pistons you fitted would work well with the standard cdb and oil squirters with regards to thermal management and physical strength. Obviously the lighter pistons will have a very significant positive effect on the rods life.
I am not the only person to suffer rod failure. I am 99% sure of the cause of mine, however, rev limit and piston mass doesn not explain all OE rod failures i know off.
I can't remember you mentioning that you fitted STI pistons anywhere in the thread though, so I thing my checking this was not wrong, especially regarding the title you chose. I would expect more from your OE parts hybrid than from a purely OE spec engine of its vintage. This makes it slightly more "special" than true OE spec in my eyes.
Moray
03 February 2003, 06:03 PM
#26
my wl result was 376bhp / 300 toeque @ 1.2 bar (peaked at 1.66*)
my pe result was 407bhp / 384 torque @ 1.4 bar (peaked at 1.66*)
*if i recall correctly
Neither of them show what is happening on the road though, running at 1.8bar, holding at 1.6.
The car just keeps on pulling and pulling - v.scary - and is very hard to hold yourself forward against the sheer power of it pulling you back!!
my pe result was 407bhp / 384 torque @ 1.4 bar (peaked at 1.66*)
*if i recall correctly
Neither of them show what is happening on the road though, running at 1.8bar, holding at 1.6.
The car just keeps on pulling and pulling - v.scary - and is very hard to hold yourself forward against the sheer power of it pulling you back!!
03 February 2003, 06:13 PM
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"432 bhp on used secondhand internal parts originally manufactured by subaru and fitted as standard to mass production vehicles" was a bit big for the title So I condensed it !
The sti pistons are no secret, they are 'declared' in my cars spec on the Well Lane thread.
Whether the pistons are actually forged or not is debatable ? This was recently discussed on this forum.
So I condensed it ! The sti pistons are no secret, they are 'declared'
in my cars spec on the Well Lane thread.Whether the pistons are actually forged or not is debatable ? This was recently discussed on this forum.
03 February 2003, 06:21 PM
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Christian
Can you beg, steal or borrow an AP22 performance meter ? I find them excellent for measuring the true 'on road' performance.
I can give you the set up data I have in my unit, it has never been more than 2% out from Star rolling road figures although varies a bit from well lane.
Andy
Can you beg, steal or borrow an AP22 performance meter ? I find them excellent for measuring the true 'on road' performance.
I can give you the set up data I have in my unit, it has never been more than 2% out from Star rolling road figures although varies a bit from well lane.
Andy
03 February 2003, 06:42 PM
#29
Andy,
Doubt anyone here has one, i do have a blitz power-meter id, but not sure how accurate it is compared to the AP22 - perhaps you could send yours over? I could use it, and send it back?
Regards,
Christian
PS> impressive figure btw, is your car designed to last long?
Doubt anyone here has one, i do have a blitz power-meter id, but not sure how accurate it is compared to the AP22 - perhaps you could send yours over? I could use it, and send it back?
Regards,
Christian
PS> impressive figure btw, is your car designed to last long?
03 February 2003, 07:02 PM
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No problem Christian
I'm using it for the next week or two but I could send it after that. Do you have somewhere that you can use full power from a standing start up to the top of 4th gear ? It needs to be level and straight.
I don't see why my car shouldn't last I don't use it for commuting, however I have done over 1000 miles in the past week including 10 rolling road full power runs and probably 20+ AP22 power runs ! Keeping the RPM down is the key in my opinion.
I also have a low/high boost switch. Low setting (1.2bar) drops it to 375bhp (tested at well lane) To be honest, with the light bodyshell and the Ra gearing, I rarely need to use the high setting !
I just keep it for those days that it starts to feel 'slow'
Andy
ps what is the minimum rpm you get 1 bar boost from ?
I'm using it for the next week or two but I could send it after that. Do you have somewhere that you can use full power from a standing start up to the top of 4th gear ? It needs to be level and straight.
I don't see why my car shouldn't last
I don't use it for commuting, however I have done over 1000 miles in the past week including 10 rolling road full power runs and probably 20+ AP22 power runs ! Keeping the RPM down is the key in my opinion.I also have a low/high boost switch. Low setting (1.2bar) drops it to 375bhp (tested at well lane) To be honest, with the light bodyshell and the Ra gearing, I rarely need to use the high setting !
I just keep it for those days that it starts to feel 'slow'
Andy
ps what is the minimum rpm you get 1 bar boost from ?