john banks

Interested in actual experiences of those who have daily driven 2 litre rebuilt engines running over 350 BHP confirmed on rollers or sensibly estimated.

How many miles and what sort of use at each power level?

Care to share any issues you have had?

Reason for asking is that there are many recommendations based on specification or theory and I have come across little based on experience of running x power for y miles.

Some may not wish to share this info, if you mail me offline I would be grateful. As it is I keep nothing about my own car secret and happily share any developments. Others feel differently I understand, so realise this will by no means be a complete archive.

My use for the information is simply to choose the correct spec to go faster for longer and enjoy my car more having engineered it appropriate to the power I wish.

For my part I have now been running at (estimates) 300 BHP on a standard UK engine 2000 miles, then 320 BHP for 3000 miles and then 350 BHP for 6000 miles with no issues at all with regards to the health of the engine or drivetrain. The car is used as a daily driver and gets looked after in terms of warm up/cool down, but I do use all the power available whenever appropriate to do so. I am looking for similar info on rebuilt engines (but with substantially higher power figures).

CraigH

John,

Ran between 360 and 400hp in mine. Components used I can tell you and what else was changed. It appears engine wouldn't have lasted long (10k) but that was more down to build than anything.

Can't see any real reliability issues on a decent build.


[Edited by CraigH - 1/14/2003 9:56:38 PM]

Bob Rawle

My engine spec you know, just under 11,000 miles all together. Daily drive as yours.

Bob

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

Id say that it would be hard to claim reliability from that??? How much of the milage was actually producing the 350+bhp... probably very few as most of the miles was normal driving.
You could be very unlucky, and within a few miles, break a rod or similar, or you may be lucky, and last for 20,000 miles of hard driving, and nothing happen.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Engine was rebuilt by Matt Clark (Roger Clark Motorsport) at 14,487mls. This was 10mls after I fitted an APS cold air kit and removed the bumble bee mesh in front of the MAF sensor. No2 piston picked up the bore in only 10mls. Rebuild included forged pistons,steel rods and oil pump modification.Power was 320bhp April 02.Power increased with a few mods in stages to 377 bhp at22,640mls August 02. In October with 26,375mls the Ion Performance turbo was fitted, giving 417 bhp. Now circa 31,000 mls and no issues whatsoever with the engine. Did have a problem of my own making with the turbo but that has been resolved.
With the Cosworth pistons the car is using 4litres oil in 3000mls and if I was to do this exercise again I would go for alternative pistons designed by Matt Clark which I believe will show a number of performance gains over the existing.
The engine is treated carefully when cold but not molly coddled in any other way.

David_Wallis

Harvey is your block closed deck?

Why about the pistons?? do they run a bigger clearance than some??

David

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Open deck and no problems.
Piston clearance is 2.5 thou but some of the later engines with less clearance still had a similar oil consumption but I expect that has been cured with the new family of pistons which Matt Clark has developed. They also have a better skirt and I think are lighter.

David_Wallis

interesting

steve McCulloch

Jeez thats a lot of oil consumption

Perhaps I should be looking at this.. but then I guess I have different uprated pistons

Willbe able to comment on mine in the next 6 months on a basic 2 liter rebuild... no issues with the original engine - just fancied more power

As long as I dont write off. May get rid of it just after summer..

[Edited by steve McCulloch - 1/15/2003 12:20:44 PM]

AlexM

Isn't oil consuption more related to how well the oil control rings are sealing than the piston to bore clearance?.

Katana

Haven't the misus banned you from the workshop yet?

R19KET

Poor oil consumption can be caused by several things. I wasn't aware that piston design was one of them, well at least not the Cosworth piston.

Worn oil stem seals, and valve guides, bore/hone finish, poor exhaust valve seating.

Mark.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

John

"I do use all the power available whenever appropriate to do so"

I thought you'd started to limit the power in lower gears for fear of reliability or are you 'anything goes' now?

F

john banks

Tend not to go mad in first gear that is all.

SecretAgentMan

LOL

Forget 1st gear JB - I shot 3rd gear.



/J

easyrider

John

What mods were you using to get 300bhp on your "std" engine-im interested as this is the power i would like to have in mine.

David_Wallis

katana.. thats why I make an effort to stay single

Then I can spend as I like...

Its interesting as it must be the highest powered open deck block subaru.. I thought mine was doing well at 345

David

john banks

Ported OEM exhaust manifold, Hybrid TD04 turbo, full exhaust system, remap, 1.4 bar dropping to about 1.15 bar at peak power, upgraded fuel pump, upgraded TMIC.

This is not what I would now recommend for 300 BHP.

Would now suggest: ported OEM manifold, bigger turbo, full exhaust system, 1.2 bar midrange maybe drop to about 1.1 bar top end and upgraded fuel pump, ECU remap. This should breach 300 BHP and 300lbft very easily - bit of tweaking of those boost targets up and down to suit.

To go up to 350 BHP: FMIC, induction kit and inlet pipe, uppipe, 550cc injectors and a fair bit more boost.

And if you had half a brain you would stop before 350 BHP IMHO. I lost my brain a while ago hence all this talk about rebuilds.

[Edited by john banks - 1/16/2003 11:15:41 AM]

Adam M

iirc, hyperex' car was a 2.5 open deck and was running 490bhp at low boot.

Adam M

that would be boost!

Pavlo

Trout's and Steve McCulloch's cars both had open deck blocks, with more power (except at WL3!)

Micheal White's legacy is open deck, as is harvey's

Bob Rawle

"Id say that it would be hard to claim reliability from that??? "

Was that aimed at me Stevieturbo? If not please ignore this post.

One or two others here can testify to how I drive my car (and their's).

Oil consumption has a great deal to do with piston design in my view and its not about clearances or skirt shape.

steve McCulloch

Yes Bob - people acuse me of driving fast........ let me introduce you to Mr Loonattttttiicccccc.

Or was it that I just was'nt used to being in a catapult.. i.e. the passenger seat of a car... I'm not usually scared

And its not the first time either..... Bob must get about 50 miles to the tank!

Drive sensibly and at low boost, etc... we talking about the same Mr Rawle?

CraigH

Was running 3 thou clearance on mine and didn't get through 4 litres in 3k miles.......

FWIW most of the power figures are pretty meaningless as they haven't all been done in the same conditions.

Seeing Harveys spec for instance, I'd be very confident to have got over 420hp at Well Lane.

Doubt it'd be the same elsewhere tho......

Still - right components, good build and map and I can't see reliability being a "real" issue.

Would be interesting to see one of these spec engines at 30k though.......

Bob Rawle

Its not a clearance issue, I have checked around and most Cossie powered engine's use some oil, not just Subaru either. The oil control ring design needs some attention imho. Since installing the Omegas I have covered the 2500 miles or so without using a drop so I'm well pleased with that. bear in mind that they were designed to be used in an engine that would get an oil change every 100-200 miles or so.

Andy.F

Would this be an appropriate place to mention 'piston ring end gap'

I have seen so many different recommendations for this setting.

Ranging from 0.008" to 0.020" !!

comments ?

john banks

Any experience with Lateral Performance 2 litre pistons and oil usage?

Trout...

Running around 55,000 miles - of which 30,000 have been running 350-360bhp - on road, track and dragstrip.

Car is a daily driver - and even tho it has been mostly tuned by me has been absolutely fine. There is evidence of some wear - there can be the faintest blue haze in the exhaust when run hard and hot - but oil usage is minimal.

Oh - and it is an open deck block built by Mr Fuji Heavy Industries.

Recently has been running 1.7 bar held (not all the time of course) and still has been fine - seems quite strong at that boost level

So who needs a new engine

Trout

PS According to my BMW manual - a litre of oil every 1000miles is within tolerance

fivepint

@JB, AFAIR you are an Autospeed subcriber? I recall an article where they rebulit there own legacy RS ej20 before, with some tips... you may have already read it

http://www.autospeed.com/members/article0158.pdf

just in case...

Cheers

David_Wallis

i'm

how can piston design affect how much oil is being used..

Surely if the clearances are greater then theres more chance of oil being blown in to the combustion chamber and being burnt?

Surely the ring end gap would cause the same problem?

It just seems confusing to me as surely its all down to tollerances somewhere, be it piston clearance or rings..??

Im confused..

I have been looking at various pistons for my new engine.. so am very interested in this..