Medway1

Just wondering if anybody out there has bought an APS top mounted intercooler for a bugeye.

I am considering buying one and would welcome some feedback.

Cheers

MurrayZA

Any news on your TMIC plan - I have been considering one too.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

jamie whitfield has one iirc, but then he sells them!

MurrayZA

I was wondering towards the benefits / people's experiences
with them.

nom

Well, the one for the classic shape is the same % larger (about - I think!) as the standard one as the bugeye one, & similar design. If that makes any sense and this is even a remotely useful comparison... but the solidity is pleasing - it would have to be a serious chunk of gravel to dent the fins! I found it worked very well with the TD04 - I think its effeciency is possibly not much higher than that of the standard one, but there's a much smaller pressure loss - in other words, the turbo only needs to produce 17psi for the manifold to see 16psi, whereas with the oem one it needs to produce 18.5psi for the same. As that sort of pressure is rather over the edge of the compressor's effeciency island, the intercooler has the same effect as running the turbo at lower boost (temperature-wise), so the charge density is higher anyway.

So, in short, the classic shape APS TMIC is an immediately obvious improvement with the oem turbo, but the performance increase in tandem with a turbo that's running 'within its limits' - larger - isn't so great (time for a FMIC there anyway!); quality wise, it's a huge leap-up from the oem, whatever.
All IMO, of course

MurrayZA

Thanks, Interesting comments, especially since I've been planning
on swapping out my VF23 and going back to my TD04.

T-uk

why are you going back to a td04?

MurrayZA

U reckon its not suck a bright idea ?

Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag..... I get full boost of 1.1bar (15.95PSI) @ 3800 and sometimes later. Great for highways,
cr@p for back road blasting. Was thinking maybe a TD04 hybrid.

T-uk

just thought the vf23 was the best all rounder available,could work with any level of mods and was not too laggy.

so what is the best turbo if you are not chasing huge power at 7000rpm?the td04 is great intil you hit a straight,starts to run out of puff at 4500rpm and the car goes nowhere fast by 6500rpm(earlier with a standard ecu).

nom

Well, there's lag & spool-up point. I thought the VF23 spooled-up later but didn't have much of a lag problem? So power's there when you want it as long as your in the right gear

MurrayZA

Dunno, but I'm not looking for huge power at 7000. Like you said, its all well and fine on the straights, but pick a few twisites and
you'll see that you're going into corners, breaking, say, down into 2nd, with 3000rpm dialled on, the you have to wait for it to
spool when you exit the corner. In these situations, my car with
a TD04 is far far quicker throught the roads. I believe the ultimate to be a TD04 hybrid ? Anyway, not to hijack the post - someone give some feedback on that APS IC.

dowser

Murray - what other mods and what car do you have? 3k8 is *very* high for a vf23. Are you using the ecu to control boost? This would cause your problems - the vf23 either needs a remap or an external boost controller. The standard boost maps for the td04 are completely wrong for the vf23, which requires a bigger kick to get started!

Re. the APS top mount - is it not better to bite the bullet and go front mount now....you'll probably end up doing that anyway later

Richard

MurrayZA

Dowser, n South Africa, we have very very bad fuel. Recommended fuel for the 01 WRX is 95, we have a max of 93. So thats where the problem starts and I keep boost control to the std ECU as it then retards and advances, pulls and gives boost as necessary. We have extreme weather from below 0 in winter up to 35 degrees C in summer. (Hence the bigger IC interest). Thats why things are the way they are. I have an 01 WRX PPP with VF23, full decat with new up-pipe, center section, PPP backbox. I use std induction (minus resonator) and boost control.

dowser

Sh*t life! Regardless of fuel (assuming the car isn't hesitating while building boost), the td04 boost maps trying to control a vf23 is what's causing your problem getting to held boost.

Whatever fuel you're using - it's worse for your engine running a td04 at 1.1bar than a vf23 at 1.1bar. The td04 will be heating the air more than the 23 would, meaning more work for the intercooler and ultimately a higher inlet charge = more chance of det, especially on 93 fuel! Look at the 23 as a safety mod from this perspective

To see what an external boost controller is capable of, disconnect the boost control hose from the turbo output and *carefully* go for a drive. Try WOT in 4th from around 2k rpm and be ready to get off the gas (fuel cut is your only overboost protection at this stage!). See what revs it hits 1 bar at - I'd expect around 3k. Get off the gass immediately at 1 bar though!

If I was in your position I'd be looking at either a remap to take account of the poor fuel, or finding an additive to bring it's ron up (tolulene? I recall seeing some posts on MRT forums about use of this in SA). With the remap route you could also get the boost maps done for the 23, but I guess it's not so easy to find someone to do it there....

I'd stick with the vf23 and fit an external boost controller (with knock and lambda sensors just so you know what's going on) - Dawes will do the job fine. While an MBC will remove boost control from the ecu, it can still advance/retard timing - the denso ecu's do this aggressively anyway. Knock and lambda in car displays will tell you if things are really bad - I recommend fitting them before anything else so you can get a feel for how your car runs as it is now.


Good Luck
Richard