sherifxm

I am interested in speaking with them about their methods of obtaining this level of performance from the EJ engines. Thanks

sherifx

Pavlo

Big capacity, big turbo.

Speak to Cobb in the usa, they have experience, which some people in the UK have drawn on. Also APS in Australia

Basically get a 2.4 or 2.5 kit with forged pistons, steel rods and crank, relinered block welded closed at the top.
Possible some head work and cams
Big turbo, Garret or APS sr50 looks easy to fit
Big injectors, 800cc/min or more
Big fuel pump, or 2
Fmic, take your pick
Possibly some custom exhaust work for turbo relocation (tipped back)
Standalone management, take your pick.
Uprated clutch
Uprated gearset
Some time on an enigne dyno for initial setup would be nice, iron out bugs in controlled environment, not essential.

or something along those lines.

Paul

Adam M

paul dyno time is essential.

You cant have an engien with that kind of output and attempt to get it right on the roads.

if you do, it will be a bodge.

These kinds of engines need serious money and time spent on them, and not only that you will find those havign them are reluctant to tell many people as they attract attention to themselves. Some on here enjoy that, but others are less likely to want the exposure.

I know christian is perfectly happy to talk abo-ut his car. It doesnt have 500bhp yet, but there is no question that it should achieve it in the future.

Pavlo

simply meant engine dyno time could be replaced with rolling road time, saving the engine transfer hassles.

I don't think christian went on an engine dyno?

Paul

UkLegacyT

yeah Christian went on a dyno a while back. at 0.95 bar it made 359bhp

he said it wouldnt boost more as the samco inlet pipe was collapsing.
think its going to be pretty damn powerful!!

ian

David_Wallis

Are you sure... I thought he found that out at well lane??

Ill send him an email.

David

Pavlo

Yes, the only dyno figures I saw were from Well lane rolling road.

I'm pretty sure Bob set the car up initially.

Paul

Adam M

christian drove the car from jersey running a 2.5 on 850 injectors to bobs.

his car to my knowledge did not go on an engine dyno as unfortunately living in jersey, it wasnt convenient.

Bob mapped the car, and I am sure there is much much more to come from it.

On my quest for high horsepower, every serious tuner I have been to said dynoing the engien (not roloing road tuning) is an absolute must. I believe them, and so mine will be going on the dyno without doubt.

Pavlo

Engine dynos allow you to do it faster, safer and under more strictly controlled conditions. I wouldn't say they can give you a better result in the end than a RR or even the open road, just without as much hassle.

It's very difficult to gauge throttle response on engine dyno's, unless you have access to one that can simulate running on a racetrack or similar, but they are very expensive, so much less common. But tweaking on the road is much easier if you have the best starting point you can.

I'm impressed christians car ran at all before Bob saw it!

Paul

steve McCulloch

Adam

What you done to yours then?

Is Christian's Turbo specced to run up to 500bhp?

R19KET

The beneifts of mapping on an engine dyno are massive.

A good dyno will be set up to monitor, and control water,and oil temps, intake temps, oil pressure, egt, fuel pressure, etc'. This also allows you to induce higher temps, etc', and then map the compensation maps.

One of the main problems with mapping a car with this type of power, is actually holding RPM, and BOOST, accurately in a zone, so it can be mapped.

Trying to do this on the road, is nigh on impossible at high rpm/boost. You just can't hold a zone for long enough. So a tuner will use datalogging, and experience to creat a safe map.

Having spoken to Mervyn at PE, he doubts that he'll be able to keep an engine with this sort of power, down on the rollers, let alone be able to map it correctly.

Then, most of the RR gas analizers have a 5 second delay, and I wouldn't be keen waiting 5 seconds to find out what was happening to my engine when I'm trying to map it at 2bar of boost...

I would agree that even after mapping an an engine dyno, some fine tuning, such as throttle response will still need doing on the road, but at least you knoe the fuelling, and ignition is right...theoretically !!!

Mark.

Pavlo

Mark,

I think you would have had a much easier time on a dyno with a more modern control system. I assume you had to get the operator to twiddle the load until you were where you wanted to be?

Reminds me of Uni, trying to dial in exaclty 4000rpm or whatever, and it took about 20 seconds of arsing about.

These days it should be easier in theory, just ask for 4000rpm and wait a little while.

Did you use Cliff White (think that's the name) in harlow?

paul

Andy.F

I can't understand why you would want to hold an engine at set rpm for any length of time at WOT It just doesn't happen in real life. The combustion conditions during rapid acceleration are completely different from steady load. If you map at fixed speed and full load you will end up with an engine that is running too rich, not enough advance and as a result.....slower than it could be.

Mark IIRC your car was mapped on a bench dyno and gave impressive figures, once it was in the car it ran rich as hell and didn't go very fast (I've seen the video with the black smoke ! )

IMHO unless you map under real live conditions with the proper exhaust, intake, fuel system, cooling system, acceleration rates and underbonnet temperatures then you are giving away power. Rolling roads are almost as bad, my car would need to be in 7th gear to accelerate that slowly I get all sorts of flat spots and compressor surging on the rollers that just is not there on the road or track.

Pavlo

Well, Mark's car ran rich for a reason, nothing to do with bench dyno's per say.....

Your right about holding engines at fixed speed not being real world, but in terms of mapping, it really makes life easier, as you can hold it in a zone and tweak until you hit target afr and MBT/knock point. To do those things in a controlled manner in a dynamic situation is a pain, even with decent logging, it's a case of log it, change it, log it change it etc.

I'm sure we've been here before, but fwiw bench dynos can do a lot more than just hold at speed or load. Other nice things such as (relatively) low noise, reduced heat soak, tea coffee, comfy chairs etc. Not to mention logging of just about every temperature, pressure and flow known to man.

Not so nice is watching your exhaust manifold glow yellow hot.

Paul

Andy.F

LOL @ Pavlo..... You have your tea, coffee and comfy chairs I prefer a fast car

Pavlo

well, you know what I mean, being able to map/blow your engine from the comfort of (supposedly) sound proof room, where you can stretch your legs once you have overcome the initial dred of the engine not running at all.

How long are the power runs at Star? Sounds like you need some longer gearing!

Paul

R19KET

Andy,

I don't want to go into my figures on the bbs, but, yes the car was running VERY rich, like 30% rich, or a "lambda" of .67 !!!!

Reason, well stupidly, we hadn't checked the fuel pressure on the dyno, and after looking at the dyno log, discovered that the dyno'd fule pumps weren't up to the job.

We were adding fuel to the fuel map to compensate.

Back in the car, my fuel system was working correctly, and hence a serious over fuelling problem

Slow !!! yep, it sure was, but with the fuelling problem, the boost turned down by 20%, and me, who only picked the car up on the Fri' night, hadn't driven a Scoob in anger for over a year, and it being my first attempt at launching in probably two years, and with all that, I still did a 13.45.

I wasn't too dissapointed

As far as mapping is concerned, I always expected to have to fine tune on the road, but didn't fancy trying to do it from scratch, on an engine spec', such as mine....

We specifically left the ignition on the safe side, knowing that it would be advanced when it was back in the car.

So anyway, my car was running like SH*T, with a SH*T driver, what's your excuse

Mark.

R19KET

Guess I should mention, that about two weeks ago, I snapped a gudgon pin !!!!

JE have confirmed that I was supplied the wrong spec' pins, and I guess that now I'm going to see what the integrity of my supplier is........

Did a fair bit of damage, but the MK2 is on it's way.

Mark.

Andy.F

Mark

Sorry to hear about the pin issue, I know you spent a lot of time getting things just right, being supplied with faulty materials really pi55es you off.

We have had the dyno discussion before and each have different views. I know my motor could not sit at a sustained WOT at a set RPM for more than a few seconds without detting or melting something. Luckily it doesn't need to, it's always increasing at more than 400 rpm/second even in 5th. What i'm getting at is mapping for transient conditions allows you to be more 'creative' with the settings !

Pavlo

All of a sudden I feel a whole lot better....

Paul

R19KET

Andy,

I think we have very different goals.

You are looking to push your engine to the limits, to see just what you can achieve, and that's great.

It was never my intention to push this engine so far. This is why I've taken the route I have. I wanted to prove something to myself, but try and keep it "relatively" safe, and the dyno map was very conservative, let alone losing shed loads of power because the dyno room was reaching temps of well over 40C.

The wrong gudgon pins were not on the agenda.

It's going to be an expensive experience, but I'll use it to inspect the rest of the internals, and see how it was coping, in general terms.

I've learnt a hell of a lot, and it will be much cheaper, and quicker to build this time. I'm also doing a few things, that in hind sight, I would have done first time around.

It's a damn shame, because the fuelling was getting very close, and the boost was back up, and it was scaring the SH*T out of me

When it's done, maybe I'll take a trip to Crail, get you to run the 1/4 for me, and then REALLY upset you

Mark.

David_Wallis

Andy, I've seen this car and all I can sat is OMFG

Mark bit worried about why you want an ej20 though.. oh and if andy does what he said when he mailed me then oh ****...

but still I helped him get there assuming he uses the part I made him... which is a work of art.. Ps.. its been on a surface plate and is pretty damn flat.

David

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

Of course, thats if your gearboxes dont break...Mine just **** 1st gear on sunday night, and its f**kin slow!! Dumping the clutch @ 6000rpm ( having a go with my G-Tech ) in the wet...and all it did was stand still. Had to happen sooner or later I suppose.
Next Q not for me tho....What is involved with swapping to a 6speed, and is it that much stronger than a 5 speed?? I know where there is a STI which could well be for breaking, and there is a load of bits that could find their way to a car very near me...

Pavlo

the sound of breaking steel everywhere!

monster engine builders take note!

I think andy is going twin TD05......

Paul

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

A question for Mark. The pin that broke, you say was the wrong spec?? Obviously your engine is different to most others here, but is this something that we should be aware of? Is it a bad pin design, or what is the reason for blaming a wrong pin ( In that I dont understand how a pin can be wrong ) There are various shapes and sizes, but most all of them are pretty strong, and rarely fail. Is there a particular type we should be wary of ??

R19KET

David,

Well I hope Andy sorts it out soon, because I need a new starter motor and it will save me looking for that EJ20 closed deck

I was going to borrow Trouts engine for my starter motor, but realised in time that it didn't have enough torque (sorry trout)

Well, so far, I've wrecked a rear diff' launching at Elvington, managed to snap a gudgon pin, but my gear box is STILL working

Paul, well I guess someone had to tell us what Andy is doing !

Mark.

Andy.F

Mark

I seen your starts at Elvington (on video courtesy of UK legacy Ian )
Your last run looked good bit much wheelspin but no bad for a beginner Sounded nice and free reving too With that 500m time you should be well into the 11's for the 1/4 no problem.
(even with you driving )

Pavlo

Not 2 TD05's I'm afraid, just the one for torque monster experiment no 243 Wrapping a big ratchet strap round the engine to keep the heads on it

2 x TD??? on the cards for spring though

Pavlo

aaah, td04 seems like the logical choice, just you've been stocking up on td05s, you breeding them?

I take it david has mentioned the td04 turbos that are around?

paul

R19KET

Andy,

Yes, I coould tell the difference on the third run, it felt much better, until my 2nd to 3rd gear change

We'd also reduced the fuelling a bit, and I managed to get to 7500rpm in 5th before it started miss firing so badly I had to lift off, I never did get a top speed pass. Well not true actually, I did get a timing slip with about 58mph on it

I haven't seen the video of the runs, were they posted ? I'd be interested to see them.

Mark.

Trout...

Trout is in tears at rude remarks from Mark...

...oh well, saves buying those cigarettes at £500 a go

Trout