UkLegacyT

as title.

first sign of trouble was a change from second (hard accelerating), then went into third, and the car lunged as if it was on a bungee rope.
idle is still at 900rpm when warm, but the engine, and hence the car, wobbles a lot.
will only pull 0.7bar boost in any gear at any revs (on boost), rather than the usual 1.5bar.

first thought was a split hose, but have removed both boost pipes, turbo to cooler, and cooler to inlet. also removed the intake pipe from air filter to turbo (i know theres no boost here) just encase this was the source of the bad idle.
found a fair bit of oil in the pipes, more than usual.
no splits or dodgy looking areas on any of the pipes.

more throttle needed to accelerate very gently, and also pops from the exhaust on gear change.

any ideas??
im baffled

thanks

ian

WREXY

Sounds like the ECU has put the car in limp home mode. No expert, but mayb the MAF sensor has died.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

UkLegacyT

thanks for the reply wrexy

i did wonder that earlier, as i seem to remember somebody saying that limp mode is set at 0.7 bar.
that would explain the bad idle, and also the fact that it will only boost to 0.7 bar in any gear at any revs/load

however, i run a bleed valve, so would the ecu still be able to restrict the boost to this level?

anyone?

thanks again

UkLegacyT

oops, just to point out that in the above post, i meant that a maf failure 'would explain the bad idle', and not 0.7 bar boost

also, i noticed that there was a lot of oil on the maf hotwire.
cleaned this, but no luck

WREXY

You were right originally, cos the ECU will go to 0.7 bar when the MAF dies as the ECU will go into limp home mode and the idle will also be bad. I think the ECU can still control your boost to 0.7 bar even though you have the bleed valve, cos it is still using the stock solenoid, but I'm not 100% sure on this. I think it's when you have a FCD the ECU can't do this and perhaps with a boost controller also which uses it's own solenoid. Again I could be wrong.

Perhaps you have also contaminated the boost solenoid with oil, caused by excessive oil put in at service or top up. Maybe you should try cleaning it out. Not sure on instructions on how to though.

Anyone else?

Cheers,

Wrexy.

UkLegacyT

thats a good point, ill try cleaning the boost solenoid (it is stock).
i think its a case of taking it off, and spraying brake cleaner into the holes, and leaving to dry??

like i mentioned, there did seem to be excess oil in the pipes, perhaps brought in by the breather, as it smelt like engine oil.

cheers wrexy

anyone else any ideas?? thanks.

WREXY

I think there is a little more to cleaning the solenoid than just spraying brake cleaner. Some how you have to get the solenoid to pulsate while spraying the cleaner into it, so it pumps out the crap.

If wsearch worked, we could have found the instructions, cos I remeber that Mark, (R19KET,) had posted instructions on how to do it.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

[Edited by WREXY - 6/19/2002 11:50:07 PM]

WREXY

Oh I forgot. Make sure you spray the pipes/hoses that go into the solenoid as well.

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

You are running a bleed valve. If this is the only bleed device plumbed into the wastegate line, then the ecu will have noe way of reducing the boost. Is the boost solenoid still plumbed into the system also? If it is then the ecu could reduce the boost depending on how much your bleed valve is still bleeding. But, oil in the intake pipes etc....not a good sign. It has to be coming from somewhere and its usually from the sump, which is being pressurised, by a damaged piston. It may not be, but it does sound all too familiar. Either way, remove and check plugs, and do a compression check anyway. It may just be a duff plug, or coil, but you would be lucky if it is.. You were running a lot of uncontrolled boost with the bleed valve. 1.5bar + surges is no good.

Andy.F

Ian

Have you checked the signal line to the fuel pressure regulator ? I had this split on me and it ran crap as the fuel pressure did not increase/decrease in line with boost/vacuum.
Dump valve ? try plugging it.

Andy

BruceWarne

Have you checked the blow-off valve?
If it is stuck partly open, or leaking, it could cause the symptoms you mention.

Pavlo

Sounds like you finally polaxed your engine...

Depends what the bleed valve does, if it bleed from the MAP, but still allows the boost solenoid to control boost, you may be okay. Limp home mode is 5psi on my legacy, and I drove 200 miles like it. I didn't have any idle problems or bad running though. It does sound like a vacuum hose has gone.
There is a metal pipe that runs along the top of the bulkhead, with hoses either end, and when I forgot to plumb this back after striping the charge cooler, I had the idle problems you describe.

Good luck.

Paul

scoobyboy

start the car up go to the tailpipe and listen if it sounds like the gases are coming out at a nice constant rate thats good but if it sounds like theres a gap in the exhaust gasses and you can hear a sort of chuffing noise then theres an exhaust valve burnt out.
legacy turbos are common for this and i've lost count of the engine rebuilds i've done on them

StanS

iTrader: (3)

Has the sensor tube that goes to (controls) the dump valve come off ? (The small dia tube that goes into the dump valve)
Stan

UkLegacyT

just got in from work!
stevie, thanks for your mail mate
-----------------------------------------------------------------

thanks for all the replies guys
stevie, yeah, doesnt sound too good does it. there was a bit of oil in the chargecooler too (air chamber part). it is definately engine oil too.
i hope its not a soddin piston etc.
what i'll do is pull the hoses off again tomorrow, and see if there more in there again, as i cleaned them out yesterday.
i dont run a dump valve, so no probs there.
andy, thats a good point what you mention, is the pipe under the inlet manifold on the drivers side by any chance? as when i swapped the turbo, i had to rag the water pipe (from turbo to header tank), and then shove it back in there, and i noticed a lot of small dia pipes.
when revving the engine when stationary, sounds perfect, and when motorway cruising, is perfect and no different to usual, no higher water temp etc, and no smoking at any time, even when revving as described.
i'll listen to the exhaust note more carefully tomorrow, i dont need to go to the back of the car to hear it
last week, i noticed a few times that when accelerating hard in fifth, there was a few very slight hesitant bits, but hardly anything.
when starting the engine from cold, and hence revs at 1200 ish at first, its perfectly smooth.
its only when warm and revs are at 900rpm ish that its lumpy, and when pulling to junctions, the revs dip to 500 or less, and crappy idle.
i do run the factory boost solenoid, and i think the ecu must be controlling the boost, as no matter what gear, uphill or downhill, it rises to a max of exactly 0.7bar boost everytime, to more, no less.
when accelerating gently, if i go to say 3500+ it doesnt seem smooth, misfire type running, but like i said, perfect when cruising

any more ideas?
thanks to you all for the help so far

ian

p.s. must go to bed now, up early for obvious reasons

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

Maybe not a piston. Depends how heavy the engine is breathing into the crankcase. By the sounds of it driving ok down low, it may just be a coil or similar. Although the oil is a bit worrying. You really should do a compression test. Cheap testers can be bought for around £15, and they arent even that crap. clarke/Sealey etc do them.

UkLegacyT

i think i'll do a compression test regardless just to be sure.
you know if a coil pack etc is dodgy, will the ecu know this, and hence reduce the boost?

i think ill try another maf aswell (dont know where from though )
just to eliminate that.

i'll check the oil level after too, as it doesnt use any at all (despite the stick it gets), so that might give an idea.

do you know off hand what size the plug socket needs to be? the plugs are one thing ive never had to do, as they were changed during the dealer service it had when i had just got it (7/8000miles ago), how often should they be changed on these engines?

thanks again

UkLegacyT

right, ive driven it for about 1 1/2 hrs today, and then pulled the pipes off. theres no oil in there now.
still driving fine as usual...just lack of boost and poor idle at 900rpm. when cold at say 1200/1300rpm, idle is smooth and fine.

when holding the car at 2500rpm stationary, there is the odd break in the exhaust note, kind of like a little pop, gentle and quiet though.....

cheers

Andy.F

Ian

Do you have a lamda gauge ? Or can you connect a DVM to the O2 sensor output ? Checking the mix will give you a pointer where to look.
If you unplug the signal pipe to the FPR (on the manifold) try blowing down it. If you can blow anything at all then it's leaking.

UkLegacyT

Andy,
yes i have an afr, it still fuels rich when planting the throttle, and the low end pull is just as strong as before.

checked the vacuum pipe to the fuel pressure regulator, and all looks fine.
dave fullerton is going to send some plugs and coil packs to try (cheers dave ), and hopefully find or eliminate things.

like i said, checked the pipes, and no more oil. checked all boost signal pipes, fuel pipes, electrics etc, and by eye, all looks fine....

cheers mate

will post what i find when trying plugs/coils etc

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

It may be tedious, but just change and try one coil at a time. At least that way you will know which one is suspect, if it proves to be a coil. I once had a cam follower fall out, due to a dodgy hydraulic ballstud ( see other pics for valvetrain layout ) The car made no noise, and mostly drove fine. There was a misfire after about 5000 rpm. Obviously since the follower had fell out, one of the inlet valves was no longer opening. Such strange symptoms it gave, I tried everything, until removing the coil pack leads individually and driving at least narrowed it down to one cylinder. Removing the rocker cover I couldnt believe it... although I had wondered why the noisy lifter had suddenly got quiet..

UkLegacyT

just got in from a long day

the car just retified itself today unbelievably ????
i noticed when i was having the problems that my boost guage backlight was not working, but just assumed it was the bulb, and thought nothing of it. however, went down the road when at work trying to suss out the problem, and put my foot down and it launched off as usual........and the backlight of the boostgauge is working again.

therefore, i reckon it must be some sort of dodgy electrical connection??