KnobbySP1

For those of you who don't me, I got a 2.5L build from Scoobymania and am very happy with it. I'm having to run Optimax and Miller's Octane booster to get the desired 501 BHP and 475lb/ft.

I quizzed Mike at Scoobymania who has now pushed the boundaries even further by developing a 2.5L build with 552BHP and 530lb/ft on 95RON fuel!!

The mind boggles what it would do on the 100RON I put in mine

Big thumbs up again for Scoobymania for quaility builds that don't blow up

R19KET

Since you are already running Optimax, and octane booster, it will be pretty close to 100RON, so don't get your expectations too high, unless you make a few more changes as well.


Mark.

nas sti

was chatting with mike myself on a 2.5 engine build , they certainly know there stuff

Mike Tuckwood

Oops, & those figures were achieved on a "faulty" MAP sensor, figures will be "better" than that later today (Wednesday)customer is GENUINELY speechless. Work in progress, the oven is still hot. :-)

Mike.

R19KET

Well let's hope the soufle doesn't sink, when you take it out

I'm looking forward to seeing some of these cars on the track..........


Mark.

Mike Tuckwood

They're all standing up very well Mark. This one in particular.
I'm not aware of one anywhere else doing these kind of figures (on a Dyno Dynamics rig), using 95RON fuel?

You'll need your suntan lotion to go watch this particular one in action though Mate, it's off to sunny climes to the customer imminently.

Bring your Black car to Dono when it's back on the road mate, we'll have a thrash round there like we used to?


Mike.

R19KET

I'm not aware of anyone running 95RON over here. Why would you, when we have 97RON readily available ?

I assume it's been done to accommodate the local fuel ?

We'll be at Donnington on Saturday for the "Time Attack" final, running the other car.

The Black car is now top of the list, and will be ready for the new year


Mark.

Mike Tuckwood

And I can't imagine why you might be aware of something like that, why would anyone over here do it when there's better fuel available?

LOL, Mark, you're asking and answering your own questions, but yes, 95RON is all that's available locally where the car is going out to. The customer is understandably impressed (as no doubt are many others) that we've managed to get as much (more in most cases) than "others" manage to get running Shell Optimax - 'V' power type fuel with additional octane enhancers.


Yeah, OK, I know what you mean.


Mike.

scoobyDAZZA

i e-mailed them but haven't had a reply as yet
mind you,it was recent so i'm looking forward to receiving it
they certainly DO know there stuff looking at the above power figures

Bob Rawle

Darren forget it mate it wouldn't last 5 mins the way you like to drive

Talk to you on Sunday.

cheers

bob

Mike Tuckwood

Hi Bob,

You'd be surprised how well our stuff stands up, (in that it does without exception so far) even in heavy hands (and feet).



Mike.

scoobyDAZZA

i do wanna stay 2 litre but it's just hard to find a semi closed block as a doner at the right price, well,any for that matter . . . thinking of going 2500cc for ease of finding a block . . . . . .

anyhow,what you on about, ''the way i drive''

cu sunday Bob , , pray it don't rain too bad

Mike Tuckwood

I'm sure we've got short engines available of all 3 main types, on 2.0 Litre. Open, closed and semi.


Mike.

scoobyDAZZA

i'm away for the weekend Mike and if i don't have any joy at the place i'm going then i'll bell you middle of next week

David_Wallis

You resolved the earlier problems then?

Pat did make very impressive figures on his 2.5 on 95 ron.. but never pushed it too hard

David

Mike Tuckwood

Hi David.


Not had "problems" as such, just a faulty (unstable) MAP sensor we discovered during set-up so had to replace it.

Not sure what that's got to do with Pat in any way though? I'm sure if they'd have been even half decent figures, a multitude of people would have been crowing about them and I've heard nothing?

Maybe Mark should ask Pat why he might have mapped on only 95RON intead of me?

Mark, I sent this car up to Donington on Saturday for you to see (or whatever) but couldn't find you anywhere..... where were you?



Mike.

David_Wallis

We were in Garage Number 9 all day

You obviously didnt look hard enough..

Pat mapped on 95 ron as its cheaper..

The problems I was refererring to were with the earlier head gasket problems you were having? (on Ian's engine)

David

Mike Tuckwood

Ahh, ya see, I didnt look at all as I was in Blackpool, was looking for "Marks car" which was nowhere to be seen, thought it would be there, where was that then was it in garage No. 9 as well?

As for 95RON, we often map on it, but rarely on a car of this kind of build level and power, most struggle to get this power on High octane fuel, Which I think was Ian's point originally, not sure why it's being swung away from that?


You threw me with that "problems" reference; I'm not sure why you might have thought I would be thinking back the thick end of a year ago to something as "incidental" as a single head gasket failure?

So in answer to your question, no we've not had any problems.


Mike.

P.S. As a footnote, I see from your "location" info, that we have got the same power (but for 8.4bhp) that you've had on your car and you've used MUCH higher quality fuel, I hope you'll agree in that light, the figures stand out as Ian originally posted quite markedly?
(We're running about 10% less boost for our figures as well).

David_Wallis

I think you will find that figure is on optimax, so I wouldnt say much higher..
One day I may dial my cams in and see what the engine can do..

My racefuel maps produced a different car, but my exhaust was too restrictive.

If you really want to start power pissing competitions then Ill see if I can achieve 700-800bhp if you want.. which my new setup should ****.

I'm also very happy for you that you used 10% less boost.

David

Mike Tuckwood

Hmm, come on David, SURELY if it was just cams that needed dialling in, you'd have done that prior to speculating what it *might* do on race fuel and a bigger Turbo, or would have simply made those minor alterations and improved those figures? <shrug>


I don't want to start any type of competition, pissing or otherwise, I'm also more of a "let the results speak for themselves" kind of person and don't make rash and ambitous speculative comments.

I don't know why you appear to feel so aggrieved that we've produced the results that we have, then come on this thread being negative and dismissive?
And there is (as you well know) a BIG difference between Optimax and 95RON fuel!

I'm not asking you to say "well done" in getting the same power as you on much lower qaility fuel, but again, the figures are there and are fact, I can't change that?

Perhaps I might take it back and run it on Optimax and see what we get like Ian suggested at the start?


Mike.

David_Wallis

Im not aggrieved, Im genuinely happy for you, I was simply wondering if the head gasket issues have been resolved, if so then my next engine may well be a 257 Hence why im genuinely interested in all high powered 257's ie alan Bells, this, AlanG's, JohnS etc.

Re Big Difference, I thought you were referring to the MS109 I was using.

As for the Cams, Kent / Piper etc etc wouldnt produce another run of phase 1verniers.. even if I took 10 sets Scoobyclinic were getting some made so I was waiting for them, then Paul @ zen got a set, but no more..

Now I hopefully have a source

As for tweeks etc, I made numerous changes to the setup, but never put it back on the rollers to do more power runs.. Before I pulled the engine it was 559.6bhp at 6200 and 480Lbft at around 5800 rpm.. but the Exhaust was just too restrictive (removed the modified hiper to pass noise tests). The new 4" exhaust should flow enough and hopefully be quiet enough though.. time will tell.

David

Mike Tuckwood

Sure, that's fine, but the "head gasket issues" were never "issues", there was a single head gasket failure after A LOT of runs on the dyno, and a radiator fan fault a long while back, you referring to it and calling it "issues" like that doesn't make it so and I am of course keen not to allow anyone else reading this or any other thread to be misled into believing that we are having "issues", as nothing is further from the truth.


That's why I didn't know what you were talking about and like I say, that was the best part of a year ago so there's no way I would have linked it with the subject matter of this thread (and still don't see it's relevance within this thread now)?


Even if we had head gasket issues (which we haven't), knowing that we'd fixed them wouldn't benefit you either would it; as we'd know how to do it but you wouldn't.



I also don't remember saying that this car is a 257? It is a 2.5 Litre but that's a HUGE assumption you're making to think that it is a 257, simply because it's a 2.5 Litre and therefore comparable to the other people's engines you have mentioned above?


On this car we pass through your peak torque figure at 4300rpm and our peak power is made at 6750rpm. I'm sure (hope) you'll agree that is a pretty impressive power band?


Maybe you should let us take over planning and building your car and see what we can do with it for you?


As for the question which is undoubtedly sitting on everyone's lips rioght now as to longevity, this engine (so far) has shrugged off with ease more than 97 500BHP+ runs on the Dyno.
Maybe we'll do a few more yet as well?


Mike.

R19KET

Mike,

As David said, I was at Donnington all day, but not with the car, as on Friday, a tensioner bolt sheared, damaging some of the valves.

It's very nice of you to "send" the car up for mr to look at, or "whatever", but I've seen the pic's of it, and now it would be nice to see how those figures translate into some quantifiabe performance.

1/4 mile, standing 1, or 1.25 mile, lap times from any tracks ?


Also, just because you don't know about Pat, or someones results, don't assume they either don't exist, or aren't very good, you should know better than to assume your privvy to everything that goes on, anymore than I am !

Nobby/Ians (?) results are great, as are the other results that have been mensioned, and it's nice that Nobby/Ian (?) keeps us all up to date.


Mark.

steve rally

Ref the Optimax -v- 95RON debate you might find the following of interest.Back to back tests on my own MY06 spec C mapping to within 1.5 degrees of det and identical boost gave:

Optimax : 354 BHP/ 421 Ftlb.
95 RON: 336 BHP/ 395 ftlb.
That is a 5% reduction.My rule of thumb is a 1.25% Power/torque redn for every 1 degree of ign "lost" and yoyu would typically lose 4 degrees going from optimax to 95 RON.To further back this up we expect to get 270BHP on Carless race fuel (101.5 RON) on our GPN rally cars.Today I mapped an identical car on TESCO 99 and achieved a massive 242BHP!!!This at 0.5 degrees off det...The ign loss was 8 degree so I would expect power loss of 12% (8x1.25), and it is actually 11.5%.

If we get the chance we will certainly map the Scoobymania car on optimax and race fuel, but from the above I would expect 580BHP/ 545 ft lb.....

Steve

Mike Tuckwood

Hi Mark.

That's terrible bad luck, it must have taken a mighty amount of force for a belt to shear a bolt? I hope you sort it OK?

As for quantifiable performance, this is a customers daily driver car, not a fully committed drag/race car and we won't be putting any 1/4 mile times through the car, he will though and we'll print his times if allowed once he's done them.

Also, we posted at about the same time and I guess if you'd seen the power/torque figures quoted above, you wouldn't have been speculating on how this car will "put it's power down" in practice.

How have you seen pictures of this car, we've not released any?
I suspect you may be getting this car (WR1 base car) mixed up with Ian Thomason's (KnobbySP1 on here) STi7/8 base car?

It also looks like you suspect from the way you've worded it above, that KnobbySP1 is not "real". He is real, I'll leave that one to others though if they want to clarify or confirm?


Mike.

David_Wallis

I dont think mark is saying that as He has met Ian as have I.

I also tried to talk him out of bothering to mod a scoob as its silly.

Sorry to assume its a 257.. Is it an EJ25 or EJ22T then? or another..

Lol @ Taking over building my car.. erm No thanks.. I think what I have currently bitten off is beyond ANY tuner or Mechanic in the universe.. as they would realise its just too stupid and impossible.. but then I am stupid enough to try it... Its certainly going to be a first..

Time will tell!

David

pat

For the sake of completeness....

My 95 RON map was for cost reasons, given that at the time I was spending 99.9% of the time cruising motorways. It was stupid to waste good fuel when you can go beyond MBT with 95RON in vacuum and light boost. There is also a thermal efficiency benefit in running 95RON over higher octane fuels due to the quicker combustion rate which translated into even lower running costs. When you're burning 20 tanks of fuel per month it soon adds up! These days I have reduced that to 10 tanks per month but cover the same mileage. No prizes for guessing what fuel that might be on

I do a lot of R&D in the background that never really makes it into the open. We're pushing the limits all the time. Things have moved on a very long way since those early days, and there is some very interesting stuff on the horizon. The current state of the art 2.5 litre stuff is in a different league now, achieving over 500 BHP at 1 bar of boost (Dyno Dynamics). With a bigger turbo we expect to see about 800BHP at 2 bar. Torque is in the order of 500lb/ft at 1.4 bar....

Cheers,

Pat.

R19KET

Mike,

Sorry, I got confused which car had been sent, but I was referring to Nobby/Ians car, who I certainly believe exists, and have met apparently, but don't recall.

You're reading things into my post that don't exist, but I think that's more down to how your mind works, than how I word things

With regard to the bolt failing, I suspect it had already been fatigued. It's been in for some time, before TOTB, so I guess we were just lucky it lasted this long, just a shame it didn't last until Sunday !


Mark.

Mike Tuckwood

And again, I'm at a loss as to what that had to do with the achievements on 95RON?
The only completeness that dealt with (sorry Pat) was complete speculation?
I bought a diesel as well for commuting but that's as irrelvent to the point of this thread as well?

We're making advancements all the time......
Our advancements have figures (achieved not speculated/projected) and they're available now. <not meant to sound like an advert>

I'm not planning anything "out of this universe".



Mike.

David_Wallis

Mark, when we used to have the meets at the buckles, he had his sti then and also that gay rari!.. Ian knows what I mean I did like it though

Mke you seem to be a complete loss with everything posted, Is that because Axis dont reply quick enough?

Its scoobynet, relevance has **** all to do with anything on here these days, you should know that.. My last thread discusses the english language and bodykits.. ergh..
Yep and one day you may catch up with the other tuners

The 'other' advancements also have figures.. and they are available, however some customers dont get a discount for blatent advertising (It does read like an advert, but doesnt really work!) Just remember just because something doesnt get posted doesnt mean it doesnt happen!

Maybe you should start thinking 'outside the box' and plan something different, rather than playing catch up...

Andy... I'm done with the wooden spoon.. can you pass on the forwarding address?

PS I have no axe to grind, just nothing on TV, and I suspect both myself and mike will have nothing better to do during the day.

Lots of love the northern ******, David.