ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

NT4 Network
Laptops running Win98SE can connect to network fine.
Win2000 clients connect to network fine.
XP Clients connect to network fine.
Win95 machines connect to network fine.

Have a mixture of compaq spacesavers piii 800 and spacesavers piii450, around 100. When running 95 everything is fine. Have done a new image using ghost which has Win98SE. Cloned half the machines on thursday all worked fine, renamed etc.. cloned the other half, renamed, will not log onto the domain.

The other cloned machines have also stopped logging onto the domain - so 100 machines now not working.

They are getting assigned ip addresses, I can connect to them through netsupport, can ping etc - so they are networked, however they will not bring up USERNAME: PASSWORD: DOMAIN: Logon box. Only the local one, which is USERNAME: PASSWORD:

What is strange is if you logon, and then do log off <username>, it then brings up the USERNAME: PASSWORD: DOMAIN: Logon box.

BIZZAAARE!

Client for MS Windows is enabled as the logon, and the domain is listed in it - as I said they were working, and they have suddenly stopped. All other clients (xp, 2000, laptops running WIN98SE, other 95 clients) are working 100% fine.

Anyone have any ideas what I can do?

Have:
Reset Bios
Removed network card drivers, re-installed
Checked machine policies (encase anything wasn't right)

What is baffling is how they were all working fine, then did some more machines and now none of them are!!!!

Any one have any ideas at all? ? ? ?

Jeff Wiltshire

(Grasping at straws mode on....)

When you logon without a domain do you actually have a network connection ?

I just wonder if its possible that this is a DHCP problem ?

Jeff

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

When you logon without a domain do you actually have a network connection ?

yes as stated, I can connect to the machines through netsupport. I can also ping,release renew ip address etc etc. when I log on without a domain I can select log off, and LOGON: PASSWORD: DOMAIN: logon box will then show!

I just wonder if its possible that this is a DHCP problem ?
I do not see how, as the machines are getting ip addresses, and are on the network, however the LOGON: PASSWORD: DOMAIN: Box does not show, unless you log on, and then do a log off user.

And as stated all other clients machines are fine, and I can connect to the machines remotely via netsupport, and they have valid ip addresses....

Any other suggestions?

ChrisB

Sounds familar that.

Have a look at

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\

CurrentVersion\Network\Real Mode Net (split on purpose)

and see if an autologon entry exists?

richs2891

Christian
Doing this from memory from about three years ago 0n an NT4 only network but i belive the principle is the same.
Am I right in assuming you built / reloaded one machine from scratch with 98se and then ghost'd the rest of the machimes from this one ?
If so then will not all of the cloned machines have mac address ?
If this is the case then use a program called ghost walker (I think) to correct.
May be spouting complete cr*p - if so i'm sorry
Richard

ChrisB

AFAIK, Ghost Walker is for changing the SID of a cloned NT Workstation when rolling out multiple PCs from the same image.

Doesn't apply to Win 9x (again AFAIK!).

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

rsarjantson - sids only apply to xp/2000/nt clients.. not 9x.

Will have a look for that reg key when I get back to work tomorrow - any other suggestions??

as I said it is strange how it comes up with just the LOGON: PASSWORD: at the start, so u log on locally, then go logoff user, and out of nowhere u get: LOGON: PASSWORD: DOMAIN: logon box!

Also it is bizaaarrree how they all suddenly stopped working!

WillieF

I take it that every machine has a different netbios name?

Bindings has each machine only got TCPIP's?

Have you tried putting a hosts file on and importing it complete with domain name?

Have you tried fixing the network card speed? I had a problem recently where the machines got an IP address but the card spend a good 50% of its time renegtiating. Interestingly it would ping the server OK. Fixed the network card speed and it went away.

Good luck

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

I take it that every machine has a different netbios name?
of course! otherwise I wouldnt be able to connect via netsupport etc etc.. and as stated, machines were working then suddenly stopped and started do this silly thing explained above!

Bindings has each machine only got TCPIP's?
yes

Have you tried putting a hosts file on and importing it complete with domain name?
don't see the point in this -as they were working before hand.

Have you tried fixing the network card speed? I had a problem recently where the machines got an IP address but the card spend a good 50% of its time renegtiating. Interestingly it would ping the server OK. Fixed the network card speed and it went away.
Hmmm.. i will have a look at this, but then why does it show domain when u logoff as local user?

Good luck
thank you

also, thanks for all the replies so far, and any future ones!

If anyone has any more suggestions feel free 2 post them.

ChrisB

Another reg key to check...

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\NETWORK\LOGON

Entry named LMLogon - It should read 01 00 00 00

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

all other machines are fine so I do not believe this is the problem.

Also as stated, the new clone machines were working and then when we cloned some more they all the 98se stopped working.

Miles

You using Cisco switches? I've seen similar whenever a Cisco switch hasn't been configured for the network...

dsmith

Saw a similair situation once where NT pcs connecting to Cisco switch with spanning tree enabled by default. Spanning tree was taking longer than the logon would retry for so it wouldn't find a domain. DHCP retries in the background so eventually gets IP and ping etc works. When you log off and retry it all works cos the switch port is still up.

needed spanningtree portfast enabled which sends the port straight to forwarding instead of blocking/learning.

Might be worth checking what the network hardware is doing...

Deano

dsmith

Spooky coincidence

Jeff Wiltshire

Christain

Just to recap for us oldies...

1. The machines have a IP connection when you log on locally ?
2. Are they DHCP'ed ?
3. What mode is the WINS set to if they are DHCP?
4. Can you resolve the Domain Controllers when logged on locally (ie can you ping the PDC by its NetBios name)

Jeff

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

1. The machines have a IP connection when you log on locally ?
ips are assigned by dhcp

2. Are they DHCP'ed ?
yes

3. What mode is the WINS set to if they are DHCP?


4. Can you resolve the Domain Controllers when logged on locally (ie can you ping the PDC by its NetBios name)
yes

What is puzzling, is that they were all working and suddenly stopped. and how none of the other clients are effected! On the same machine if I put a win95 image on it works.. so that is why I believe something to do with Win98SE rather than dhcp, dns, wins, routers.

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

just saying another point again - I can connect to the machines via netsupport (remote contorl software) - so that is before the machine has logged on, just with LOGON: PASSWORD: box.

strange eh? I will try those reg keys out

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

ChrisB: You have email regarding:

Sounds familar that.

Have a look at

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\

CurrentVersion\Network\Real Mode Net (split on purpose)

and see if an autologon entry exists?

it doesn't exist

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

ChrisB:

Another reg key to check...

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\NETWORK\LOGON

Entry named LMLogon - It should read 01 00 00 00

it does

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

tried changing speed on network card, but no diff - as I Said before, if I stick the win95 image back on it, works fine.


Still don't understand why all these win98se clones suddenly stopped though (?)

Jeff Wiltshire

Christain

I think that we can exclude network/IP/WINS/Switch/Spanning Tree issues if you can resolve names via WINS while logged on locally.

It sounds like the Win98 is defaulting to the local logon screen rather than the domain logon screen. Might be worth having a browse on Technet (or the Microsoft Knowledge Base) to see if there is anything relevant.

I've run out of other ideas.....sorry


Jeff

dsmith

Dont want to labour the point if you've checked it out but it does sound surprisingly similair to the situation I saw.

It was while working for a large bank where we'd installed many buildings with cisco switches just fine. One particular PC build used in one building had problems with the swicth ports not coming live until part way through their boot up. They too would fail to logon (they were NT so wouldnt fall back to local users) the first time they were booted up. Subsequent attempts to logon worked just fine.

From playing around with Win98 at home and domains I think I'm right in syaing that if it cant find the network or domain controller it wont give you the domain option. But it will continue to retry to find the domain if needed (i.e. incoming netsupport connection that requires domain authentication ?)

Seems to fit to me

Of course I'm just humble router/switch man - registry hacking is for s/w poofs

father_jack

Have you tried taking one of the known working PCs and plugging it in to where you're not getting the domain logon. This would tell you if it was a physical network problem or a problem with the image on the workstations.

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

on one of the win98se machines (was working fine, then suddenly stopped like all the other 98se clones we did), we put the 95 image back on and worked fine.

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

and as stated, all other machines on the network are fine, accept these clones which were working and now are not!

If I install Netbui on these win98se machines, it can pick up the domain on logon, just tried - so maybe switch related after all...

Iain

Ok,

I am a system mangler of an NT 4.0 domain with a mixture of NT4, 200 , 98 and 95 boxes.

I would have a couple of suggestions.

1. Is the error log of the domain controller saying aything ?
2. As a test, Go into Server Manager on one of the Domain Controller/Backup controllers and remove one of the systems from the domain and re-add it ( remember to synchronize after you've added it).

Iain

Miles

Any closer to a solution, Christian?
I'd be quite interested to what the problem was.

dsmith

Not something silly like the DHCP server being really slow to hand out addresses ? Is the DHCP server local or across routers ?

Do you get the same results with a manually configured stack (ip,mask,dns,wins etc ).

errrrrr....

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

but then why arent all the other 95/xp/2000 clients affected if it is to do with the dhcp?

dsmith

Cant explain everything, but I guess you need to narrow it down to which bit of the stack configuration is misbehaving.

Seen far too many problems where it only made sense at the end to discount anything simply because it *should* work.

Deano