Jeff Wiltshire

Guys/Gals

I'm not a moderator ...nor would I want to be one...and this is just me getting on my soap box as someone who makes a living in IT Security.

I've noticed a number of posts recently about either how to defeating some form of corporate security or how to bypass the security on a program so you don't have to buy it.

Both of these things are dubious at best (and illegal at worst) and could result in action being taken against Scoobynet. Please don't post such questions or comments on a public forum.


Jeff

ChrisB

Cheers Jeff.

Also, bypassing network security will probably put you in breach of your contract, espcially if you have an Acceptable Use Policy (AUP) as part of it.

Not the best reason to end up down the Job Centre for.

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

lol theres no need to worry about scoobynet

Jeff Wiltshire

So you don't think that BSA would go after Scoobynet if they thought it was condoning Hacking/Warez/Cracking ?

I've seen these guys get court orders to raid companies for the use of illegal software and shut them down.

Imagine for a moment that your question was really about how to breach the security of another secure system which was owned by a Financial Company and someone on here told you how to do it...Scoobynet wouldn't last 2 seconds in the backlash.

What you where trying to do was obviously not allowed within your company because if it was you would have sorted it out with the Security Admin.

Jeff

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

No definately not. The BSA are only interested in the ppl who make a living from trading in illegal software. Or companies who havent bought the correct licenses for their apps or using illegal ones. Scoobynet isnt condoning any of that anyway. Its the users if any who might be suggesting it or practising in it. As u said this is an open forum, the moderators/owners of this board cannot be held responsible for everything thats posted by others, unless its a blantant ad/url for a site hosting warez. Of course this would be deleted anway or locked by the moderators.

Wait a minute I never said I dload warez, I was answering a question directly. How is logging into a FTP illegal? and it is allowed in my company. If u must know, my main concern is I cant login to a FTP I have an account for with a bank for my job. They use a port other than 21 for security reasons. But the problem is the firewall is situated in the states. And to be honest the IT ppl there dont understand the problem, hence my original question.

Jeff Wiltshire

When asked why you wanted to be able to do it you said warez.....

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

yup I was answering her question, I didnt say I was dloading ILLEGAL warez.

ptholt

I agree with the clamping down on warez stuff etc as thats plain illegal and could get us into trouble.

On the subject of getting around firewalls which i was involved in, i disagree a tad.

I spend about 75 hours out the house a week, the company i contract for disallows use of mobiles during work, has no phones for contractors, so the easiest way i can communicate with my wife and family is via net messaging (email is blocked).
Which in the last two weeks has been of high importance with a three month who got taken into hospital.
If its gets me in trouble then fair enough its my own fault, but i don't see how scoobynet can get in trouble for it.

Jeff Wiltshire

Pholt

I do hope the the baby's visit to hospital wasn't serious..?

I have no conection with Scoobynet apart from being a user and I therefore do not set any form of policy as to what the moderators do or don't do.

My point really was that this is a public forum which, unlike a newsgroup, has a specific home on the Internet in the UK and therefore falls under UK laws. It would not be hard to imagine the situation where a question is asked on this public forum which then leads to a fraud or theft being committed using the responses from the 'IT experts' who also own Subarus. There is a currently many threads going on in general regarding the theft of cars and how outrageous this is and yet when someone suggests cracking a program in the computer forum this same type of theft is being encouraged (intellectual property rather than physical property).

If you asked, in this forum, how to defeat a security system to do something, there is no way that I would tell you. If, however, I knew you and you had a bonafide reason for doing something (like the case above) and the communication was private I might just help.

The reason for my orginal post was to try and get people to think a little before posting questions or answers that appear to be of a questionable nature, thats all.


Jeff

ptholt

Thats fair enough Jeff,

A lot of the answers on the 'get round the firewall thread' were not exactly technical, nor did they require the use of patches or cracks which i do think would be overstepping the mark.

The ones i thought fair game to try were instant messaging over http port, using different language versions. I wouldnt go so low as to apply patches to the proxy server for access, thats taking things a bit too far.

Jeff Wiltshire

Bioforger

By most definations of Warez in the IT community there is no such thing as 'legal' warez as it is by its very nature illegal or cracked software.

When asked why you needed to ftp to a non-standard port in the thread that has been locked you said it was to download warez. You did not mention that you needed to get to a FTP site for your work you said you needed to be able to get at some 'friends' sites. I and it would appear a number of other people reading your posts decided that what you where trying to do was of a dubious or illegal nature and that was why the thread was locked by a moderator.

Jeff

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

*sigh* Rubbish. Warez means software (softwares) period. And I didnt say I was dloading warez. Can't u read? Yeh my friends site was to share work files, not illegal warez. Ok I admit there might be a few mp3s being shared now n again (the CD's have been bought though) that is all.

Jeff Wiltshire

Bioforger

Dorothy E Denning, Professor of Computer Science at Georgetown University and the author of Information Warfare & Security defines Warez as Pirated Software, as does Bruce Schneier, CTO Counterpane & author of Secrets & Lies. ( I could go on....)

Just because you define warez as software and not pirated doesn't make me wrong nor does it mean that I am speaking rubbish. If your going to use computer terms at least know what they mean.....****Big Sigh****

Incidentally yes I can read and I can spell and type and use complete words...education is a wonderful thing.....

[Edited by Jeff Wiltshire - 3/7/2002 2:13:18 PM]

[Edited by Jeff Wiltshire - 3/7/2002 2:15:11 PM]

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

Jeff,

pbbbt what do they know Oh well, ok that seals it then. afaik warez was just a skript kiddie or l33t way of saying software. I'll say software from now on then

If you're spelling and grammar is that good, surely you wouldn't need to edit your post twice?

Jeff Wiltshire

I edited it twice to remove a remark that was made in the spur of the moment and wasn't relevant to the discussion. My spelling is far from perfect.......(edited to correct the grammer twice !)

[Edited by Jeff Wiltshire - 3/7/2002 2:32:19 PM]

[Edited by Jeff Wiltshire - 3/7/2002 2:33:02 PM]

Geezer

Perhaps the moderators should delete any post which refers to the cracking of software or the promotion of info/ideas which will lead to illegal use of software?

I don't know why people think it is ok to copy software. It's like some big joke, but if somebody nicks your Scoob it's suddenly "scumbags!" ,"gov not doing enough!", "why should they have my car I've earned it blah blah blah....".

It's theft, plain and simple. Go and buy it you tight fisted tw@ts! It's not as if you're skint is it? If you can afford a Scoob you can afford to buy the software!

And before we have x million posts of "but the price of software is a rip off", so are most consumer goods! The mark up on some clothes is shocking, but you don't nip into your local store and nick some do you?

Geezer

AndrewW

geezer, I've been down this road before and although I tried to follow the exact same path of reasoning, I was shouted down.

Thread ended up being deleted, as I fear this one will

Andrew.

MrDeference

Hurrah for the moral guardians, if only everyone could see the damage that is done by people reverse engineering software.
It's high time cracking software was actually made illegal, don't you think?

And, firewall traversal - blimey. What a blight on the corporate landscape. Let's hope that people who legitimately write software that does that also get sent down. Knowingly helping people break arcane usage policies written by paranoid IS managers and over eager lawyers.

Down with them all.

Geezer

MrDeference,
Do I sense a hint of cynicism there? Although I don't agree with your sentiments (if I read them correctly), I must admit I did titter at your reply

Geezer

dsmith

I think the point is that all us IT types have to maintain our air of invicibilty and power. If every tom dick or harry goes circumventing usage policies where does that leave us ?
Just a bunch of sad techies with fancy cars

Jeff Wiltshire

Interestingly I have been asked recently by a company to install something to watch what the IT guys are doing......


And I wonder why.....


Jeff

MrDeference

Geezer,
I am sure I have no idea what you mean.

Bring back the pencil and paper - what good ever came of all this new technology? Just think, there would be no more email born plagues to clean up.

I salute the use of monitoring software, it will foil those IT fools for sure.

Jeff Wiltshire

Allready has.....

MrDeference

Excellent.
I don't understand why companies don't just hire pliant IT people in the first place. That way they will toe the line straight away, ends up costing the companies much less than getting a monitor to monitor the monitors. To say nothing of repeat consultancy fees to check that the monitor of the monitors is not being monitored by the monitors, in a tricky cat and mouse conundrum.

Jeff Wiltshire

I think that maybe your missing the point that companies employ people to do a job of work...not to have outbreaks of teenage angst in their IT staff. This is not about defeating the system, raging against the machine, bring the capitalist pigs down or any other type of rebellion it’s about doing what your employer wants 'cos he pays you.

And if you don't, the next opportunity beckons........elsewhere

Jeff

MrDeference

Eek. Your clients are in a pickle. I see enough teenage angst on the telly, certainly wouldn't want that going on at work.

Hurrah for the employers sorting their employees out. If only Scoobynet would start paying people to post, the moderators would actually be righteous in foisting their professional bias on the posters.

MrDeference

Oooh, Shunty. Watch out now - I hope you are not considering doing anything related to your paid employment.
As a dilligent poster it is my duty to tell you that you are probably in breach of your employment regulations, and subject to causing this thread to be locked with your blatant incitement to working under the influence of alcohol.

RVeiga

The only Firewall that Works!

shunty

MrDeference - you obviously cannot be defeated with such a name this would be a good ID to keep long term, & used as a "voice of conscience" like having a good & bad angel sitting on your shoulders Why don't we call this thread a draw in the morality stakes now that all issues have been highlighted

RVeiga -
One more similar image from yourself would finish this thread off nicely

shunty

MrDeference

Shunty,
My poker face isn't convincing enough, is it? Will have to practise being more oblique...
Yours respectfully