mega_stream

Times come to actually order what I've been pondering over for a while now, been doing my sums and have come up with dabs as the best supplier, (evening delivery helps) and the price aint bad either.

So do I go for a nice stable P4 1.6 or the AMD XP1800 with the abit KR7A Raid m/b?

Things is as my PC is running 133mhz memory I could use it in the P4 system (I've got 768Mb) and if I get the AMD I'm gonna need 2100 memory. (with prices as they are I'll only be getting 256Mb)

So, is it the P4 1.6 with 768mb ram or AMD XP1800 with 256Mb

Any suggestions?

John

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Not going into detail, but the XP1800+ blows the p4 1.6 out of the water performance-wise. Personally would take the XP every time with 256MB every time......

What mobo's are you getting depending on what chip?

Cheers,

Nick

mega_stream

Nick

Was looking at the Abit BL7 Raid for the P4 chip..

I've got a 250w PSU in the system I've got, will this run these systems? (I know reliabilty will decrease) but its not really gonna be used for long periods of time, if I need a PSU I may just get the cheepy Nokia sytle case with a 300w.

I can't see PSU's for sale on the dabs site on there own.
John

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Bad idea mate. A 250W technically is below AMD specifications, but I think that a few managed to slip through due to the high quality signal that they could produce. What you you look at is how many amps the PSU can supply along the +5V rail. 30 is recommended for these puppies. Really, I would use a 300W PSU for her. Look under case accesories or summat like that on dabs for the power supplies. You won't like the price but a 350W Enermax is a goodun, or wait for a 300W sparkle PSU.

Also, the bad thing about AMD's is the heat that they produce, which is a hell of a lot more than a P4. It is said that the XP chips produce less heat than the original thunderbired ones, but I am yet to see this really with the 4 xp setups that I have built.
One of those small Nokia cases would be a nasty choice IMO. Way too cramped inside. Would recommend at least 1 case fan if you go the XP route.
Going the XP route is going to require more thought than the P4 route, but the good points outweigh the bad.
When in doubt though, stick to intel. 1 thing though, if you are going to run Win98 on the Abit rig, I wouldn't bother. At least in my experience at work, virtually all of the i845 based PC's that we have had come through us have been been as buggy as hell.
Rock solid on XP or 2K though

Cheers,

Nick

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

The PSU situation comes down to luck, I ordered a cheap 300W PSU when I built my XP last year, the piece of junk could only boot up the m'board, as soon as the DVD, etc were plugged in, nothing. A tad upset I decided to try out my old 200W PSU, and it runs perfectly it never crashes, and runs for many hours each day.

mega_stream

Cheers, That in mind I'll have a look at getting a case aswell then The one I've got is very pants, only cost £25 and its a real sod to get bits in...

So u rekon a 300W at least, with a case fan...

Thanks

Tiggs

i have an XP1700- its lovley! (no nothing about PC's so cant add much more )

Tiggs

mega_stream

I'm gonna get one of these... http://www.enlight.nl/products/7240.html

£60 on dabs, looks cool, bigger inside and got a 300W PSU aswell

AlanW

Just reecently built a XP1600+ which is now overclocked to ~1700MHz the original value should be 1400MHZ for a 1600+ so its equivalent to an XP2050+ but also the AGP is running @ 80 MHz, whole thing is mega quick, total cost £600 for the whole lot as I had to buy the case etc. as my last PC was AT not ATX.

see www.overclockers.com for info on what overclockability a CPU has.

Cheers

Alan

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Careful with this one. It's all well and good overclocking the FSB speeds on your chips, but you are putting a hell of a lot of stress on the components inside the PC.

If you are running with the AGP at 80Mhz, the with 4XAGP enabled, you are cranking320Mhz through you graphics card, as opposed to the usual 266Mhz, a lot of the time, you will need to slightly increase the power being supplied to you AGP port to aid stability. Shortens life of the card.

You will be running your PCI slots at 40Mhz, as opposed to 33Mhz, which is bordering on completely barmy. Most PCI cards and integrated peripherals running on the board are not designed to go above 33Mhz. Most cards will go to about 37.5 without too much worry, but 40 is very risky.

Can't remember the ratio for the USB, but in default speed, she tuns at 48Mhz, once that you overclock the system bus above say 140Mhz, the usb bus speed increases pretty well proportionally. USB controllers are speed fussy on most motherboards, even moreso than PCI components, USB mouse lockups etc are the common sign of overstressing.

Unless you have a 1/5 bus multiplier available on your Motherboard, then running 160Mhz system bus is only really for the hardcore and people who like spending a lot of time tweaking/maintaining their PC's.

You will need a DAMN good heatsink, fan and fine layer of silver heat compound.
You will need DAMN good case ventilation too.

MO, not worth it unless you are a tweakmonkey like myself, but even then without a 1/5 multiplier I wouldn't vaguely contemplate running a 160Mhz bus........

Cheers,


Nick

P.S. Have to agree on overclockers.com, have been using/posting on their database for as long as I can remember now!

Edited to add that you will probably need to increase the voltage being supplied to the cpu to 1.775-1.8volts to achieve good cpu stability, but also produce even more heat.
You will most likely need to also increas the voltage being supplied to the PCI bus to 3.4-3.5 volts.
There are a few certain motherboards out there that cope with thi all better than others, but it is a bit of an art still IMO and obviously luck with components. When in doubt don't bother mate. The 1800's go like absolute schtink anyway.
My recommendation to you, board-wise would be an Epox 8KHA+ Mobo and a stick of 256MB Crucial 2.5CAS DDR. top notch board, stupid money for it and the crucial DIMM os top class. Does 140Mhz and most importantly CAS2 standing on it's head. You won't regret it!

[Edited by Mr Footlong - 1/28/2002 2:03:02 PM]

Shaun

I am running the following......

XP 1800
512mb DDR Ram
ABIT Mobo
60gb Deskstar 7200 2mb cache HD
40gb Deskstar 7200 2mb cache HD
8500 Radeon Graphics Card

As of yet, I have not been on ANY INTEL 2ghz PC that beats it!

Shaun.

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Not as quick as mine though, you cossie-driving monkey!

Nick.

mega_stream

How SLLLOOOWW was the dabs site today double the bandwidth come the morning they say..
Do you guys have masses of fans and cooling then?

I was just looking at a 300W PSU and a standard Coolmaster heatsink/fan..I'm worried the PSU's not beefy enough and I need extra fans now for the cpu, seen loads of sites saying how damn hot these bu99ers run

Will a 300w PSU do the job? or am I wasting my dosh with it?

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

A 300W should be fine for you.

I run a lot of cooling, but that is because I have a lot of components and I do overclock a tad....

Ideally, a case fan charging air in at the front and if the case has a whole for it, a case fan charging out at the back along with the PSU fan should be fine for you. The PSU fans a lot of the time chuck out naff all air, so could be an idea. IMO a good heatsink and fan is really the most important thing that you can do with the Athlons, but let's see what the others say

DominicA

I'd invest a little extra on the fan, have a look around on places like toms hardware and overclockers and see what they're recommending at the mo.. there's some right funky styly ones out there... i'm running a globalwin fop32-1, but then again my CPU is only a 1333.... my case is a TASK 3003, comes complete with 300W PSU for £37 inc...

ChrisB

Lies, damn lies and benchmarks

mega_stream

Well, the orders been placed with dabs all bits in stock so should have it all in the next few days

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

What Mobo and Heatsink did you get with it then? Did you get a crucial DIMM as well?

P1Fanatic

Get a P42.2Ghz A and with watercooling you can get over 3Ghz. Ive been from Intel to a 1.4 Athlon at the mo and will be going back to Intel when I build my next comp. It amazes me how many people will buy something cos x website or x magazine says so. X benchmark software says my uber comp has 8 billion trillion gigaflopsicleterabytes per second.

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

You're taking the **** out of benchmarking yet going on about watercooling a P4 2.2Ghz to overclock it? Also, by no means do all 2.2 Northwood CPU's do 3Ghz or above.
Again, things like Watercooling are for the hardcore that must squeeze every last drop of performance out their CPU/Chipset.
Watercooling is not mainstream enough to be adopted by the masses yet. Only with companies such as Koolance, are things even starting to go that way.
Watercooling is still quite expensive if you are doing it properly.

Cheers,

Nick

[Edited by Mr Footlong - 1/29/2002 3:32:55 PM]

mega_stream

I gone for;

Abit KR7A KT266A M/B
Athlon XP 1700
Deskstar 60GXP 41.2GB UDMA100 (IBM)
256MB 184DIMM PC2100 (Crucial)
ATX Midi Tower 300W ATX12V
FCPGA-1.2Ghz SoA XP - 1900+ (Coolmaster CPU Fan)

All that lot for £460 delivered

That should be a bit faster than my old PII 350Mhz !!!

Thanks for the tips! Now if you think its a bum choice, keep it too yourself as Its too late to change






[Edited by mega_stream - 1/29/2002 9:02:47 PM]

Shaun

My comment IS from actual experience you PC PRO'd gimps, not hearsay or benchmark results. I ALREADY KNEW I would whip ANY Intel in a benchmark test, so that wouldnt be a proper comparison would it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry I forgot.....INTEL are always the daddies!!!!!!!!

Once bitten, TWICE shy!

Regards,
Shaun.

AlanW

Hey Mr Footlong,
Dead right mate, at that sort of O/C ing it gets a bit crazy. But the PC is damn stable at 163MHz bus solong as I don't run some 3D games (runs the 2D game lead-in then dies). Basically my OEM Radeon 7500 cheapy is the problem (the radeon OEM doesn't even overclock), but hey it runs safe and sound at 156MHz & 10.5 (can't be bothered messing with the L1 bridges). I am getting around 45C at the CPU with 1.825V core. All other devices are fine and dandy at 163Mhz ie. my USB to my digi camera, PS/2 mouse and all other guff.

Not so bad for the price either way

PS I am running an ALPHA PAL 8045 Cooler, it'll run much cooler if I got better cooling into my Case, but its a cheap beast so some minor mods are required, down to the local Electrical Factors place it is.

Cheers

ChrisB

Here's one for you Shaun...

I remember Ian Watkins posting up some benchmarks from a Fortran compiler he uses and (IIRC!) the P4 beat the Athlon so bad, it musta hurt.

Shaun

Chris,

Yeah AND Fortran is sooooooooo highly used in todays applications!!!!!!! I remember using that cack at college........ 12yrs ago!!!!!!! In fact it should be quicker on a P4......since it would be soooooo used to running on a stone age achitecture!!!!


Shaun.

P1Fanatic

Watercooling isnt that expensive (£150) in this day and age of o'clocking given that it is virtually silent and you can move them on to your next upgrade. Last time I went to an i-series lan there were 7 peeps using water cooling and that was nearly a year ago.

Nor did I say that all Northwoods go over 3ghz - I remphasize the word 'can' i.e not 'will'. If u didnt notice my pointer to the P42.2 o'clocked to 3ghz+ was made in jest - damn, PC boffs are more highly strung that performance cars owners.