Bakerboy

Hi all,

Finally i'm online - but having some teething problems :s

Just looking for some experience and advise really, I have sky broadband and a netgear wireless router (although I'm using wired after loads of swearing and tantrums at wireless not working) and have 2 pc's and anxbox running off of it. Everytime I start up my pc's, I have to turn the router off and on to get a connection and even that doesn't always work as the pc's say they are connected to the net but I can't browse.

Then all of a sudden it starts working, very random.
Now, my activation date is in 3 days for the broadband but I can get online now, I have problems connecting but when it does connect it stays online.

My question is; do you think i'm having problems connecting because the activation date hasn't come yet? My thoughts are if I can connect at all, then it's working right?

Thanks in advance

Dark

iTrader: (1)

It's not unusual for the adsl to be activated a few days early. I would say that once it's on it's on. If you're having connection problems then it's likely to be a problem with your bt line.

Can you go into the router setup and check the adsl line status ? You need to look for the line attenuation and the signal to noise ratio.

Where have you got your router plugged into the phoneline? Try plugging into the master socket with several different microfilters and with all other phones, etc disconnected. A lot of connection problems are due to poor microfilters or bad extension wiring.

These websites have lots of great info:

::. Kitz - ADSL .::

The Broadband Resource

Do you know how far you are from the telephone exchange ?

Cheers, Mark

Dark

iTrader: (1)

Based upon your distance from the exchange you can check that your line attenuation is within expectations and see what typical connection speed you should achieve.

-=| adsl.yesyes.info |=- - FAQ

Regards, Mark

jpor

iTrader: (1)

Which model of Netgear do you have? I bought one of those internal 6 ariel jobbies. And had nothing but problems with the wireless side. And also connectivity with the PS3. In the end I ditched it and bought a Dreytek.
I know it's not much help. |But the only thing you could look at is a Firmware upgrade for it. Good luck!

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

when you drop connection do you lose connection to the router?

Bakerboy

Hi again all and thanks for your comments, I am using an extension lead from the main socket but it's my only option as i have my pc's upstairs and can only used wired.

It doesn't say on the router what model it is but i know it's a netgear one that sky issue - i guess I can always try a different extension cable?

-when I drop connection, no I do not loose connection to the router

Bakerboy

Just did a test, and i'm averaging 300kbps on a 8mb line :s that cant be right can it? I'll try plugging an extension into the main socket instead of using the one already wired into the hone (it splits 3 ways from the main socket)

jpor

iTrader: (1)

3 Ways!!! Wheres the Microfilter postioned in all of this?

Dark

iTrader: (1)

Ideally you want to remove the front faceplate from the BT master socket and connect the router directly into the socket behind it. This will isolate all the other extensions in your house and give a direct connection to the exchange. It's not unusual for a problem with your internal phone wiring to kill your adsl.

300kbps is just the download speed from a particular website. It's not bad considering it's a Saturday night when lots of people are using their broadband. You want to check the router status page and find out the connection speed, line attenuation & signal to noise ratio, this is the only way to really check what's going on. Also look for corrected & uncorrected blocks which gives an idea of how much the data is being corrupted down the line.

Lot of info here:

::. Kitz - Low SNR Margin & problems .::

If connecting directly to the master socket does improve the situation then consider a NTE5 filtered faceplate or try disconnecting the ring (orange) wire in your phone extensions. Both worked for me.

Mark

Bakerboy

Thanks Mark, not sure how I get into the router settings though?

All I got was an installation cd that seems to have a browser and anti virus with it not indication of router access...

Bakerboy

I've now managed to disconnect the other two phone lines but saw nothing 'behind' the original socket - hopefully this will improve things

Bakerboy

THAT'S more like it, 2.4 megabytes per second

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

I was having disconnection problems - but then changed the microfilters all round the house and the speed difference is amazing (from 250Kb/sec to 800Kb/sec) and no disconnection issues.

Richard.

Bakerboy

Having problems again.

I've managed to increase the download speeds from 300 kb/sec to nearly 3 meg a sec by disconnecting the two other extensions and plugging the filter directly into the main socket (although it's not a bt one, rpp i think it says on it), but every hour or so I get disconnected and can't get back on unless i restart the router and sometimes even that doesn't work.

I believe I've done everything I can (bar phone the isp, because my activation date isn't until wed officially) and I don't know how to get into the router settings to check for noise etc - if anyone can point me in the direction of a solution I'd very much appreciate it!

Cheers

Bakerboy

Ok, I've got into the router settings(sorry for the delay, am new to this)

What am I looking for?

Line attenuation (i take it that's noise) is 47.0db downstream and 29.0db upstream..

noise margin upstream is 5.9db and upstream 22.0db

Is that what I'm looking for?

I go to do the online sky test and it says internet connection can't be found - do you think that's due to the 'official' activation date not being until wed?

Also, I've noticed; when I disconnect or shut down one pc, the other one disconnects at the same time - any opinions/advise guys??

Dark

iTrader: (1)

The line attenuation is the electrical resistance of the phone line between you and the exchange. The further you are from the exchange the higher the number will be. 47dB suggests that you are approx 4.0km from the exchange and you should be able to obtain 4Mbit/s with a standard adsl service (assuming it's sold as a max 8Mbit/s service).

The noise margin is an indication of the phone line quality ie: how well the router can see the adsl signal compared to the background noise. The new adsl max services are adaptive and adjust the adsl line speed to achieve a noise margin of approx 8dB.

If the noise margin drops lower than ~6dB then you can lose adsl sync which means your connection dies. However most routers are clever and if they see the noise margin getting worse they will drop the line speed to compensate. My router (Draytek) frequently does this in the evening or when it's raining!

From your router settings are you able to obtain a graph of the adsl spectrum ? This feature is usually hidden in the maintenance sub-menu and gives a good indication of how well your router is able to utalise the adsl connection. Can you post the graph ?

Are you sure your router is connected to the BT master socket ? It's where the BT cable comes into the house. Make sure there isn't another socket hidden away in the loft, cellar, cupboard, etc.

Finally, do you know if your adsl is a proper Sky LLU (local loop unbundling) ? ie: do they have their own equipment in the telephone exchange ? Or are they just reselling the BT service ? All my experience is with BT, Sky might work slightly differently.

Cheers, Mark

Bakerboy

Thanks a lot Mark,

Unfortunately it seems that I can not get an adsl spectrum graph as I can not see the option within the settings - my router is a sky netgear DG834GT if that helps at all?

There are 4 phone sockets in total in this house, but I believe the main one to be the one by the front door (although it isn't a bt socket) as the red and yellow main cables come from the porch into this socket and the other extensions that I disconnected were coming through this one too.

With the last thing, not the faintest idea I'm afraid 0 but I do know that the 'official' activation date is not until tomorrow.

--Another thing I have noticed is that I can sometimes play games online (which I believe to be p2p) but not browse; someone in the game told me that this sounds like a DNS issue but here I am a couple of hours later and I'm browsing again :s

Any idea what I can try next to resolve this random happening problem?

Here are my stats:

Port----Status-------TxPkts-------RxPkts-----Collisions--------Tx B/s----------Rx B/s
WAN---PPPoA----------7961-----------11844------------0------821-----------6142
LAN----10M/100M------77648-----------89092-----------0-----10391----------6413
WLAN 54M---0------------0---------------0--------------0--------0------------0


ADSL LINK---------------DOWNSTREAM----------------UPSTREAM
Connection speed--------7104 kbps --------------------448 kbps
Line Attenuation---------15.5 db------------------------29.0 db
Noise Margin-------------5.6 db-------------------------21.0 db

Am I right in believing that the noise Margin should be abouve 6db and that's why i'm dropping connection sometimes?

I can now get into the router settings, could you tell me what I can do next please?

Simes777

Well the phone cabling doesn't sound standard to me. BT don't use a cable with Red and Yellow wires in it. Chances are that the previous occupant did the internals himself.

The usual feed to a house (if overhead) is done with a black cable which is a 4 core cable with White, Orange, Black and Green wires. It may be worth tracing the cable with the Red / Yellow wire back to see where the cable enters the house.

Simes

Dark

iTrader: (1)

I'm tempted to say it's your internal wiring too.

The incoming BT line should be terminated with a BT labelled NTE5 master socket

http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/images/NTE5_BT_front.jpg

If it's not then the quality of the internal wiring & connection boxes could be to blame. Can you identify your connection box from here:

Telephones UK - Line Jacks

I think BT will fit a NTE5 free of charge if it's not already been upgraded (there must be a BT engineer on here who can verify this??)

Your adsl line stats look good apart from the downstream noise margin. Ideally this should be 6-8dB but I've read good reports of the DG834G maintaining sync at <6dB.

The 15.5dB downstream line attenuation means you are close to the exchange and you're unlikely to get much more than the 7Mbit/sec downstream connection speed.

Note that in post #15 you said the downstream line attenuation was 47dB !! Was this a mistake?

What happens if you leave the router switched on for 24hrs without rebooting? The router should drop the line speed to improve the noise margin but then again it might not......

What sort of adsl microfilter are you using ? Do you have one fitted to every telephone in the house? Do you get any background noise on the phone? Does the adsl drop when you use the phone?

Mark

Bakerboy

My phone socket is most like http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/images/LJU2_1A_rear.jpg that one, it's certainly not a bt one however one of my extension sockets is a bt one; would it make a difference if i was to swap the two over and use the bt one as the main one?

On another note, i've noticed on the other side of the wall to the main box in the porch there is a circular terminal with all kinds of wires disconnected i would of taken a pic but i cant seem to upload pics from my phone atm too!
Basically, the yellow and red main wires are the only one's I'm connecting into the main socket - the blue and black have been cut off both ends; could this be causing the problem? As I'm sure with diagrams etc I could wire them up and swap the sockets around...

Let me know what you think

- I'm using the sky micro filter that was issued with my router, and only use the one as i haven't got the phone connected yet and it goes straight into the main socket.

Bakerboy

Ahh I realize now that the master socket must have a surge resister and my spare one doesn't so I can't swap them around - but the fact that the blue and black wires are disconnected could that be causing the problem?

stevem2k

the sky supplied 834GT is pants at dealing with debatable snr. It's too fast to train up , too slow to come down.

stevem2k

btw , you know you need a microfilter for every socket with a phone/device attached.....

Bakerboy

yes but I have disconnected the other phone sockets so won't need them right?

Simes777

Have a look at:

Telephones UK - Wiring Information

That shows how the phone sockets should be wired up. The boxes you appear to have are a 2/1a (with the capacitor) and a 2/3a (without) - these were installed in the early '80's when insulation displacement came in - before then it was screw terminals.

The picture of the box that Dark included is an NTE5 which were installed from the mid to late '80's and still are today. Whether BT will install one FOC or not - who knows!!

If you wire to the diagrams, you should be OK.

Whether this will overcome your disconnection issues, I couldn't really say.

Simes

Bakerboy

Yup, I have the orange (red in my case) and white (i believe to be yellow in my case) connected to the 3 and 5 terminals on my socket - so it only needs to two then i take it?

It's fine now, but noise is averaging between 5.4db to 5.8db which is from what i've heard - not enough...

How can I increase this?

Simes777

I hope you meant 2 and 5?? And yes, it only takes 2 wires from the street - 3 from the first socket to any subsequent sockets which extends the bell circuit.

I cant really help on the noise issue I'm afraid - ADSL is a bit after my time (I was an engineer in the '80's and 90's).

Hopefully Dark may be able to comment.

Bakerboy

Thanks a lot for the help guys, I really appreciate it!

After looking on the sky forums I found a handy utility which enables me to set the target noise margin, i doubled it and now i have 12.4db avg noise; with a slight decrease in download speeds - am very happy now

Thanks guys, hopefully it won't disconnect now...

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

sorry to hijack but on a similar theme I checked my master socket last night after reading about this. From the front it looks like the BT socked pictured here but the wiring inside was different. It had 4 wires all wired vertically from 2 to 5 if I remember rightly. It's a new flat.

Dark

iTrader: (1)

Excellent news !!