CosmicGirl

Hi

I'm new to posting on this forum but not new to its content as my hubbie (RichardC) used to own a Scooby until recently and so during his owning period I was a Scoobynet widow!

He said that alot of members of Scoobynet work in the IT industry and so I thought that I'd pick your brains if I could?

I am currently a PA in the NHS (isn't everyone! ) and I'm looking for a total career change into the IT industry. I'm undecided as to whether I want a career in programming or in networking (I did say a total change!). I quite fancy programming but I'm not 100% sure if its what I want to do. There must be pro's and con's to each job, so if possible could you let me know your views and if possible what courses you'd recommend I take.

Thanks

CosmicGirl

boxst

Hello

Just to warn you that IT isn't the 'great' place it used to be as many people are taking IT courses both at University and as a career change. The government are currently doing grants to retrain: These guys do some IP training funded by the government: Zenos - Training solutions for a changing world

If you are good then hopefully you will rise above the masses. I have just been trying to employ someone and the level of people that I got who were supposedly 'qualified' was abysmal.

Good luck!

Steve

WRX_Rich

iTrader: (5)

not worth it in my opinion

I work for for a largish Health infomatics service so know nhs well

and to be honest there are too many fish in the IT pool

just advertised in the nhs job pages for a desktop tec (grade 5)and had over 40 applicants!

im sure we both know there are far easiyer jobs in the nhs with far less competiton than IT anywhere paying ok ish money grade 6\7

i know a few nurses have tried "carrer changes" through our department - the only one who has lasted and gone on to make decent money has been a data security officer. This may interest you as he dosn't seem to have to many problems getting work and didn't need a massive learning curve (which im affraid you will find with programming)


if you are serious write a letter to your IT director, I know mine is far to keen on customer relations officers, even more so if they have worked in the hospital (grade 6)

this is a very good door way. You can then break free out of the nhs with few issues

NotoriousREV

I'm doing alright in the IT world and so are many others, but to be honest, it's ****. Even when things are running perfectly users/customers/business owners will complain about something and they'll never tell you "hey, that document opened really quickly, well done IT geeks!"

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

I work for Broadband support which lets be honest is scrapping the bottom of the IT pool, my abilities dont reflect my experience so until they do I'm stuck getting yelled at for said companies mistakes !!

IT is easy, why not go for rocket science

swampster

iTrader: (1)

Ditto

CosmicGirl

Thanks for your reply WRX_Rich

I wasn't thinking that I'd like to stay in the NHS, I thought perhaps I'd get qualified and then move into the private sector maybe. Who knows.

I'm currently at the ceiling of a Band 5 in my Trust.

From what I have read from actual IT bods, programmers seem to be lone workers, wearing their cardie with only their coffee cup for company. Whereas the network bods seem to walk around in their sharp suits, sunglasses on, going to the pub at lunchtimes. . I am also interested in support (hardware/software etc) and understand that I might have to complete an MCSE course.

I just want something challenging but not sure which career out of the three. I'd appreciate all of your views and course recommendations for each career.

Thanks all who have responded so far.

CosmicGirl

mike1210

depends on where you work to be honest, my previous place this was the case. Place I am now it's the opposite. When I started in IT I got a low paid job with no experience in my local council and got experience from that. I used that to get a higher paid job, try to get in somewhere if you can that will train you up. IMO experience beats qualifications in IT every time. Ideally get a entry level network job and get them to put you on a CCNA course

CosmicGirl

I had a look at this website (thanks for the link) but it seems that they only fund for a certain age group. I'm knocking 30 this year so not sure that it'll be funded or part-funded for me. Looks interesting though.

This is really bugging me now. I need to get out and do something more interesting with my life but WHAT is the question. I am qualified for administration with a qualification (basic) in management. I am a very competent user of computers, MS software and IT.

I have a programmer in my office that writes databases that we sell, he also writes smaller programs for local use. He supports (hardware and software) laptops of out-posted staff, remotely. It sounds interesting. My husband thinks I'd suit a networking role (analyst or background staff) as its more interactive with people than a programmer that sits there not talking and staring at a screen all day.

I am confused and seriously undecided as to what I want to do hence my request for info. What qualifications/experience do you look for when employing for positions in your company?

CosmicGirl

mike1210

2nd line desktop support may be for you if you like dealing with people, but pay is higher in a more specialist role....networks etc

CosmicGirl

I couldn't afford to drop any money to move to another job. Therefore if a specialist role pays more, then I'll have to specialise. What I don't want to do is be greedy from the start 'cos I know that it takes hard graft to earn decent money. Its now sorting out what to specialise in; networks, support, programming

mike1210

But remember, you need to learn to become an IT ninja, while doing so, pay may not be great. Think of a doctor, you can't become one overnight. Yes a specialist role will pay more......in time

CosmicGirl

I was thinking I could train whilst in my current job and then move out and hopefully into IT career. Will it not work like that?

mike1210

you can but without experience you can't expect much pay wise, well that's the case in South Wales anyways, London and the like may be a different matter. Chances are it would be an entry level role, for progamming im not sure mind you.

Pedro_79

Regardless of qualifications, if you have no commercial experience, you'll be very, very fortunate to get anything other than an entry-level network/desktop support role.

Depending on where you live, expect 15-20k.

Not wishing to sound harsh, but you do sound quite naive to the realities of the private sector IT job market. If you expect to be able to 'specialise' without first doing the entry-level stuff, then you will most likely be sorely disappointed.

You are far more likely to be able to move into something technical and get some experience if you remain within the public sector.

Just my 2p

kilo_4que

Cosmic Girl, the one thing you need as many will point out is experience. But then you ask, how am I supposed to gain experience if no one is giving me a chance? Well thats how it is at the moment.

When I was in my first year of Computer Science at uni, I knew guys that could just about use a computer get decent jobs within IT. Now even highly qualified people are not getting the smallest of IT jobs.

Take me for example, I did a degree in Computer Science. I also took one year out for an industrial placement but apparently that wasnt enough experience for the many companies I applied to.

I got a very high 2:1 in my degree but I think 1 big problem for me was that I concentrated too much on mathematics. I was studying programming languages some havent even heard of thinking Id get my dream job of working in defence or some aerospace company.

I should given as much dedication to programming languages such as Java and C# as well as database languages such as SQL. This would have given me more of a chance inm getting somewhere.

Now was that wishful thinking or what? Even tiny companies were turning me away for no experinece and not good enough results lol.

Likewise, since graduating in 2005 I have not been offered a single job. Yes I know one can say im just not good enough but surely im half decent to get a minor role in a company. Even careers advisors are rather stunned as to why I have not got a job yet but I guess the whole IT industry stinks at this moment in time.

Who knows?

In conclusion, Id try getting into another field than IT

CosmicGirl

Thanks, I'd much prefer peoples 2p's. Its harsher out in the industry I would have thought, than a few posts on Scoobynet!

By technical you mean.....?

mike1210

more skilled specialist area

CosmicGirl

So you would suggest an MCSE qualification?

mike1210

It would certainly help, for networks look at a Cisco CCNA also

ChefDude

are you good at mathematics and interested in finance/economics?

ignore IT - it's too much hard work now to get any money.

Do your Securities Investment & Institute (SII) Diploma - Fund Management, Compliance and Derivatives are the best modules.

then go be a fund manager or a trader - Credit Derivatives

It's hard study, but you will get a job in the investment industry and your salaray level will rise dramatically - I reckon within 5 years of getting your first job you'll be on over £100K and i'm not kidding.

everyone and his dog does coding. I work for a software house and skilled coders are bloody rare. mediocre coders are plentiful.

get into finance. you have to be keen, but you'll be rewarded.

Pedro_79

There must be hundreds of IT Service Desks within all departments of the NHS, and other public sector organisations. That would probably be your most obvious entry point.

Iain Young

Amen to that.

ChefDude

if you're desperate to get into IT, study what I already said, but do C++ and C# at the same time. not quite as much money and much harder to get a job in it/finance companies, but but much better money than the standard 20-25K coder jobs that everyone's fighting over.

kilo_4que

It seems to me that what I call an average starting salary is way too small for a lot of guys on SN.

You guys must be one some good money.

LOL I cant even get a 20k job nevermind the 25+ lol

Pedro_79

What kind of jobs are you applying for, and what experience do you have?

My first IT job was 18k after leaving the forces.. if you make the right moves, then that can increase dramatically. If you make poor decisions, then it won't.

Despite what people say, there is still good money in IT. It's hard to find it though, and there is a lot of competition. That said, just because there is easier money elsewhere, doesn't mean that IT is a dead-end career path.

ChefDude

a good junior coder... so *most* coders lol will get 30-40K in finance programming.
a good coder will get 40-50K
a software architect will get 50-60K

it's not just about experience, it's about the right experience.

to win the jobs, you need to know dll and ocx inside out. you'll use interfaces in everyday coding. can you work out when you have circular dll references? the usefulness of binary compatibility? knowing things like, if you're coding asynchronous event driven stuff, you can't use message boxes, etc.

It's not a career i'd be starting out on now, that's for sure

kilo_4que

This is the problem Pedro, I am limited to what jobs I apply for as in I can only apply for Testing and Analyst roles since I have very basic knowledge in programming using Java and C#. The programming languages I was good with are hardly demanding. These are Haskell and Prolog.

I would love to learn Java, C# and C++ but it would take a very long time for me to learn them. Then again that does not mean to say I should be turned away from Testing and Analyst roles.

I mean I get to the assessment stages, bang them out to put it nicely and in the interview stage I do really well but am told I lack experience and in some cases im given like a wild card to come back in a year lol.

Two companies which were probably the biggest companies I applied to were the ones I got maybe closest to getting a job with were IBM and GE.

But these were the most heartbreaking of rejections also. For a start with IBM I passed the interview stage and was called to an assessment. It seemed strage how i was called for an interview first. Nevertheless, in the assessment stage I did exceptionally well. I was openly complemented by the "examiners" also but a few weeks later I get a reply. The reply was on two A4 sheets of paper lol. Immediately I thought I got the job with big talk of how good i was etc. In the last paragraph they drop the bomb shell "whilst you were very good in strategy and communicating with others we still felt you were not as vocal as you should have been"

LOL this killed me off for two reason. I was suffering from a cold and fever, I had under 2 hours of sleep the night before due to the illness, I was fasting and was travelling from Yorkshire to central london. I let them know of this and they said they will take this into consideration. When i contacted them back they admit they were notified but "forgot" to include it in the assessment. How harsh is that.

With GE I guess I cant argue with anyone apart from my luck. I passed assessment and initial interview. In the second interview i screwed up on a simple question. Well i give the right answer but apparently they were looking for something more "analytical" as they said.

O well i guess employment isnt for lol. People are laughing with claiming job seeker as easy money and then there are those wanting to find employment but are forced to accept job seekers. In my case I dont even collect job seekers

Pedro_79

That's harsh, and soul-destroying I'm sure. I imagine that any other day, you would have come out on top..

Have to be honest, my knowledge of the programming market is pretty limited so I can't offer much advice. I started off in phone support, and now just do consultancy for small businesses.

Keep plugging away. Something's bound to crop up

swtmerce

IT has been a great stepping stone for me. I had a career change from being an IFA. I went back to Uni to do a Masters degree in IT and then got a job on a grad development programme with a large pharma company. I finished the programme a year ago and took a side step with the same company into the business and away from IT. I considered doing techy qualifications instead of the MSc but the MSc offered a lot more in terms of entry level, development and advancement