Telephone ext cable suitable for ADSL?
11 November 2005, 02:02 PM
#1
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Telephone ext cable suitable for ADSL?
I want to put new cable in my house that runs from the telephone master socket to upstairs. It is for ADSL connectivity as the BT engineer who recently visited while investigating my poor quality line suggested that my current internal cabling isn't helping as its just a telephone ext cable and not good enough quality for ADSL.
Where can I get a suitable cable from and how is it different to just any old telephone ext cable as places like Homebase sell telephone ext cables but not necessarily any good for carrying an ADSL signal? My levels of line attenuation currently are very high and the cabling I currently have isn't helping apparently and just adding to the noise.
This for me is a much easier/cheaper option than going entirely wireless as that would involve new network cards etc for my desktops upstairs.
Where can I get a suitable cable from and how is it different to just any old telephone ext cable as places like Homebase sell telephone ext cables but not necessarily any good for carrying an ADSL signal? My levels of line attenuation currently are very high and the cabling I currently have isn't helping apparently and just adding to the noise.
This for me is a much easier/cheaper option than going entirely wireless as that would involve new network cards etc for my desktops upstairs.
11 November 2005, 03:09 PM
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I'd be very surprised if a new extension cable were to cause any problem. The whole point of ADSL is that it works over long lengths of p*ss-poor telephone cable between the exchange and your house, so another few metres of the same inside the building is very unlikely to cause any problem.
11 November 2005, 03:45 PM
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I have absoloutly **** poor wiring at work and it doesn't cause any problems, I have about 4 extensions and several ADSL adaptors all in one socket as well as phones plugged in with no filters.
Amazingly no problems yet!
Its more like there is a problems with BT's wires!
Amazingly no problems yet!
Its more like there is a problems with BT's wires!
11 November 2005, 05:11 PM
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Have you thought about using Network cabling, eg Cat5 cable? I've had a new new ADSL connection put into my apartment here and I learnt a lot when the chap installed it.
I thought that all the six wires in the cable were being used, however, only two were being used for the line, so to activate a new line for the ADSL, the chap just fitted a double faceplate on the wall, and connected up one of the other "pairs" to this new socket, then did the same at the demarcation point.
The point being, if there are less than eight wires being used (from looking at a Cat 5 cable, it's got 8 wires in it) and I think the UK phone uses four, then you could do two things. Get a good quality made up calbe and chop the connectors off it (a bit pointless) or just get a good run of decent cable and connect it up.
Whether a network cable is any better quality than phone extension cable, I could not say. I would guess that high end network cable would have shielding and things like that, which might make a difference, then again, maybe not.
I thought that all the six wires in the cable were being used, however, only two were being used for the line, so to activate a new line for the ADSL, the chap just fitted a double faceplate on the wall, and connected up one of the other "pairs" to this new socket, then did the same at the demarcation point.
The point being, if there are less than eight wires being used (from looking at a Cat 5 cable, it's got 8 wires in it) and I think the UK phone uses four, then you could do two things. Get a good quality made up calbe and chop the connectors off it (a bit pointless) or just get a good run of decent cable and connect it up.
Whether a network cable is any better quality than phone extension cable, I could not say. I would guess that high end network cable would have shielding and things like that, which might make a difference, then again, maybe not.
11 November 2005, 06:58 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by webmaster
Normal extensions runs are not normally twisted pair and may cause problems (signal degredation) with ADSL. Crap wiring is a common cause for ADSL problems. 
Regards,
Shaun.
Regards,
Shaun.
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cheers Tony - have a Maplins in town so will try there.
Happy Days
11 November 2005, 07:59 PM
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I recently fitted a 30m ADSL extension cable using a genuine BT with Cat 5e cable that I ordered from Clarity IT.
http://www.clarity.it/acatalog/adsl_extensions.html
Cat 5e cable is twisted pair and specified for speeds up to 1000MB/s.
Gary.
http://www.clarity.it/acatalog/adsl_extensions.html
Cat 5e cable is twisted pair and specified for speeds up to 1000MB/s.
Gary.
11 November 2005, 09:55 PM
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The current cable is flat with the 4 wires side by side. Would this be unsuitable or cause increased loss of signal as the wires arn't twisted (in a round cable)?
Also whats the longest RJ11 ADSL cable you can have as if these are available in 15m then I could just get one of these and run it from a filter off the master socket and run it up the stairs straight into the router?
Also whats the longest RJ11 ADSL cable you can have as if these are available in 15m then I could just get one of these and run it from a filter off the master socket and run it up the stairs straight into the router?
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 11 November 2005 at 10:20 PM.
12 November 2005, 12:33 AM
#14
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2 pair CW1308 telephone cable will be just fine if you have some rather than buying Cat.5e specially for the job.
As for distance - just go for it as limit is around 800 metres. All the clever stuff is done at the exchange by the D-SLAM
If your router measures/monitors the noise on the line (which increases with distance from the exchange) see how many db it reports. If it is less than 43db no worries. If it's more than 60db your ADSL connection won't work.
Cheers
TONY
As for distance - just go for it as limit is around 800 metres. All the clever stuff is done at the exchange by the D-SLAM
If your router measures/monitors the noise on the line (which increases with distance from the exchange) see how many db it reports. If it is less than 43db no worries. If it's more than 60db your ADSL connection won't work.
Cheers
TONY
12 November 2005, 06:15 AM
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Thanks Tony. Basically I have had an issue with my line from when I moved into the house 15 months ago. Started on 512kb, went to 1mb then to 2 mb and its been the same on each of the different speeds. The line randomly drops, can be for a few seconds or can be hours. The line noise has been measured as high as 52db at times by BT however they say they can't find what the fault is. The last engineer that visited though plugged his own modem and laptop into the master socket and connected and then saw a disconnection so admitted there was a fault external on the line somewhere and it wasn't entirely my telephone ext cable but said the existing ext wiring looked so old and poor quality cable that he said it would be adding to the problem.
Even though he admitted on the phone to me there was problem in his report to the service provider he said no fault found
I have complained about this but all PlusNet will do is bounce it back to BT saying its still not fixed. Been backwards and forwards like this for months now with BT doing bu66er all to fix it
I'll check to see if my router measures line noise, don't think it does as its a crappy eTEC router with no flashy options on it or configurable firewall etc.
Even though he admitted on the phone to me there was problem in his report to the service provider he said no fault found
I have complained about this but all PlusNet will do is bounce it back to BT saying its still not fixed. Been backwards and forwards like this for months now with BT doing bu66er all to fix it I'll check to see if my router measures line noise, don't think it does as its a crappy eTEC router with no flashy options on it or configurable firewall etc.
12 November 2005, 04:54 PM
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1 mile so shouldn't be that high. In fact its higher now with 55.8 on the attenuation on the downstream. But strangely the SNR margin is high at 17 which doesn't make sense 
When the engineer visited he found the margin to be single figures which he said was very bad as well as the attenuation. I am guessing its the high margin is the only reason I am getting a connection currently with such high attenuation.
One thing I will try later is to see what the attenuation is when the router is plugged into the master socket.
When the engineer visited he found the margin to be single figures which he said was very bad as well as the attenuation. I am guessing its the high margin is the only reason I am getting a connection currently with such high attenuation.One thing I will try later is to see what the attenuation is when the router is plugged into the master socket.
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 12 November 2005 at 04:57 PM.
12 November 2005, 10:10 PM
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I think those attenuation figures are outside the stated range for a 2MB/s service to work at all.
I'd suggest posting on http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/ - there are some pretty knowledgeable people on there who may be able to help further.
Gary.
I'd suggest posting on http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/ - there are some pretty knowledgeable people on there who may be able to help further.
Gary.
12 November 2005, 10:51 PM
#21
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Cheers Gary, those figures were the same for 512kb as well and it dropped just as much, its not been line speed related at all.
And yes they are outside the recomended range but its seems the SNR margin is the most important factor as earlier the attenuation was 54.8 but had a margin of 20+ but then later the attenuation dropped to 50 but the margin dropped down to 7 and then lower which is when the line disconnected.
And yes they are outside the recomended range but its seems the SNR margin is the most important factor as earlier the attenuation was 54.8 but had a margin of 20+ but then later the attenuation dropped to 50 but the margin dropped down to 7 and then lower which is when the line disconnected.
14 November 2005, 03:36 PM
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Here is an example of the SNR being low with the attenuation being lower too which makes no sense at all
An engineer visited again today and saw it drop again and has logged a call to the Special Fault Investigation dept. He said it makes no sense as the SNR margin should rise with the attenuation being lower not the other way round.
I even bought a £20 15 metre adsl cable to run direct from the router to the master socket to see if my telephone ext cable was also adding to the problem and it has made no difference to the results so the expensive cable is going back and will continue with the standard telphone ext cable I have. There is no difference if the router is pluged into the master socket or if its upstairs connected by a cheap telephone ext cable.
An engineer visited again today and saw it drop again and has logged a call to the Special Fault Investigation dept. He said it makes no sense as the SNR margin should rise with the attenuation being lower not the other way round.
I even bought a £20 15 metre adsl cable to run direct from the router to the master socket to see if my telephone ext cable was also adding to the problem and it has made no difference to the results so the expensive cable is going back and will continue with the standard telphone ext cable I have. There is no difference if the router is pluged into the master socket or if its upstairs connected by a cheap telephone ext cable.
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 14 November 2005 at 03:42 PM.
14 November 2005, 10:16 PM
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This is likely a very long shot, but are you still with the same ISP and do you have a static IP address?
Several years ago I had a problem of ongoing random disconnections and downtime of my ADSL service which persisted for several weeks. It turned out that my ISP had also assigned my (static) IP address to someone else. Being able to ping my home PC from work, despite all my equipment being turned off was a bit of a giveaway!
If you get no joy from BT then it may be worth seeing if any other providers have taken advantage of Local Loop Unbundling (LLU) at your exchange. Switching to another LLU provider wouldn't eliminate a problem with the copper between your house and the exchange, but it would at least mean your phoneline was plugged into a different piece of hardware at the exchange itself.
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/search.php is a good resource which shows you where your local exchange is (so you can see how far you are from it, at least as the crow flies) and what service providers are active there.
I hope you get it sorted. I know how much fast internet is integrated into our lives now, and how frustrating problems with broadband can be as a result.
Gary.
Several years ago I had a problem of ongoing random disconnections and downtime of my ADSL service which persisted for several weeks. It turned out that my ISP had also assigned my (static) IP address to someone else. Being able to ping my home PC from work, despite all my equipment being turned off was a bit of a giveaway!
If you get no joy from BT then it may be worth seeing if any other providers have taken advantage of Local Loop Unbundling (LLU) at your exchange. Switching to another LLU provider wouldn't eliminate a problem with the copper between your house and the exchange, but it would at least mean your phoneline was plugged into a different piece of hardware at the exchange itself.
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/search.php is a good resource which shows you where your local exchange is (so you can see how far you are from it, at least as the crow flies) and what service providers are active there.
I hope you get it sorted. I know how much fast internet is integrated into our lives now, and how frustrating problems with broadband can be as a result.
Gary.
Last edited by GCollier; 14 November 2005 at 10:31 PM.
14 November 2005, 11:20 PM
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Thanks Gary. I have been with two different ISP's at this address and the disconnections have been the same throughout.
I am a mile from my exchange and I have also got 3 lines to my house, two of which are dormant and one of these has been swapped over to eliminate a faulty line which is what I originally thought was the problem.
I have asked if the problem could lie between the junction box and the exchange as changing the line proved it wasn't between the junction box and my house. They said its possible but nothing shows up. The other thing they have suggested is swapping the card over at the exchange but because its such a random fault if they turn upto the exchange and my connection is working then they wont swap the card. The engineer today though I think has pushed for this after he confirmed he had seen the line drop directly from the master socket. I doubt its the card though as it couldn't be that obvious with my luck.
Still the most puzzling thing about this fault is the fact the SNR margin falls as the line attenuation falls. It just shouldn't happen and its very strange that if I have 56db line attenuation which is very high I also have a very good SNR margin of 22db yet if the line attenuation drops to 50db the SNR margin can fall to below 6 and the router disconnects. There is no mathematical reasoning behind that behaviour as if one falls the other should rise, they shouldn't fall or rise together
The Special Faults Investigator sounds like some clever bod who fixes everything so I am keeping all my proof of it showing as an external issue as if he points it to be a problem on the inside of my master socket he is chargeable at £120 per hour plus call out fee
However as the engineer saw today that the line disconnected off the master socket I am hoping that this will make it impossible for him to point it at being my issue and not BT's. This was a nother reason for me trying the adsl ext cable to eliminate my telephone ext cable being an issue. I will also be trying another router hopefully tomorrow night as well to eliminate that being an issue (although I can't see how the router could cause the line noise resulting in making itself drop the connection!).
I am a mile from my exchange and I have also got 3 lines to my house, two of which are dormant and one of these has been swapped over to eliminate a faulty line which is what I originally thought was the problem.
I have asked if the problem could lie between the junction box and the exchange as changing the line proved it wasn't between the junction box and my house. They said its possible but nothing shows up. The other thing they have suggested is swapping the card over at the exchange but because its such a random fault if they turn upto the exchange and my connection is working then they wont swap the card. The engineer today though I think has pushed for this after he confirmed he had seen the line drop directly from the master socket. I doubt its the card though as it couldn't be that obvious with my luck.
Still the most puzzling thing about this fault is the fact the SNR margin falls as the line attenuation falls. It just shouldn't happen and its very strange that if I have 56db line attenuation which is very high I also have a very good SNR margin of 22db yet if the line attenuation drops to 50db the SNR margin can fall to below 6 and the router disconnects. There is no mathematical reasoning behind that behaviour as if one falls the other should rise, they shouldn't fall or rise together
The Special Faults Investigator sounds like some clever bod who fixes everything so I am keeping all my proof of it showing as an external issue as if he points it to be a problem on the inside of my master socket he is chargeable at £120 per hour plus call out fee
However as the engineer saw today that the line disconnected off the master socket I am hoping that this will make it impossible for him to point it at being my issue and not BT's. This was a nother reason for me trying the adsl ext cable to eliminate my telephone ext cable being an issue. I will also be trying another router hopefully tomorrow night as well to eliminate that being an issue (although I can't see how the router could cause the line noise resulting in making itself drop the connection!).
15 November 2005, 03:21 PM
#26
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BT now think its possibly a faulty port on the card at the exchange so will be testing it tomorrow. They said that would tie in with the SNR and line attenuation fluctuations. Now whats the betting the testing happens while the line doesn't drop and they say nothing is wrong with the port on the card lol and be back to square one 
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