Sage Line50
10 March 2002, 03:06 PM
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Do any of you guys use Sage with Win 2k?
We are having huge performance problems that didn't exist when we ran it on NT4. The main problem is running the reports from a workstation accessing data on the server. Both are running win2k. Some reports can take 20 mins or more whereas less than a minute on NT4. Been round the houses with Sage 18 months back and discovered that win2k client to win2k server generated over 20x the network traffic. Sage blame Microsoft. Sage also promised a fix to cache data locally in a later release which didn't appear.
Does anyone have any suggestions before our head beancounter blows a chip? Reverting to NT4 is not an option.
edited 'cos I can't spell
[Edited by markr1963 - 10/3/2002 3:07:40 PM]
We are having huge performance problems that didn't exist when we ran it on NT4. The main problem is running the reports from a workstation accessing data on the server. Both are running win2k. Some reports can take 20 mins or more whereas less than a minute on NT4. Been round the houses with Sage 18 months back and discovered that win2k client to win2k server generated over 20x the network traffic. Sage blame Microsoft. Sage also promised a fix to cache data locally in a later release which didn't appear.
Does anyone have any suggestions before our head beancounter blows a chip? Reverting to NT4 is not an option.
edited 'cos I can't spell
[Edited by markr1963 - 10/3/2002 3:07:40 PM]
03 October 2002, 03:18 PM
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That's interesting.
We've just swapped a bean counters lappy at one of our customers. Used to have Win 95, now W2000.
She complained the reports are a lot slower now. Not looked at it in detail yet.
Server is NT 4 though.
We've just swapped a bean counters lappy at one of our customers. Used to have Win 95, now W2000.
She complained the reports are a lot slower now. Not looked at it in detail yet.
Server is NT 4 though.
03 October 2002, 04:48 PM
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Rare appearance here for me.
We use L50 quite alot in the office. When we had 98 machines with NT4 server it worked ok, reports produced in reasonable time, etc.
However when we changed to w2k machines and still on the same NT4 server, we encountered major problems with speed.
Having lost patience with sage, i decided to use one of the pcs running w2k as a "server" and see what speed issue was. The speed issue was better, but i dont know why(cause i just try things, and if they are better then fine, if not i go back to original state
).
I then remembered that some years back we had similar problem with the 95/98 machines. IIRC i had to type something in the sage.ini file. Cant remember but i have got my colleague on the task
Which version of Line50 you running?
We use L50 quite alot in the office. When we had 98 machines with NT4 server it worked ok, reports produced in reasonable time, etc.
However when we changed to w2k machines and still on the same NT4 server, we encountered major problems with speed.
Having lost patience with sage, i decided to use one of the pcs running w2k as a "server" and see what speed issue was. The speed issue was better, but i dont know why(cause i just try things, and if they are better then fine, if not i go back to original state
).I then remembered that some years back we had similar problem with the 95/98 machines. IIRC i had to type something in the sage.ini file. Cant remember but i have got my colleague on the task
Which version of Line50 you running?
03 October 2002, 05:05 PM
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We're running Version 8. Sage faithfully promised us that they'd sort it. Something to do with developing a local data caching wotsit. Anyhoo they didn't!
Chris
You've noticed they're not the most helpful bunch too, huh?
Chris
You've noticed they're not the most helpful bunch too, huh?
04 October 2002, 09:08 AM
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I'm feeling for you...
Sage used to absolutely grind on a Novell 3.12 network, pure 100MB from desktop to server, spec of the machines made no difference. Moving to NT4 made a huge difference. Watching the activity on the server, it seems that Sage opens and closes the same files endlessly while reading. I'm guessing that the NT network client either caches the file access differently or allows more than 2 files to be open at once.
We ended up copying the data to one of the clients to run reports.
Sage used to absolutely grind on a Novell 3.12 network, pure 100MB from desktop to server, spec of the machines made no difference. Moving to NT4 made a huge difference. Watching the activity on the server, it seems that Sage opens and closes the same files endlessly while reading. I'm guessing that the NT network client either caches the file access differently or allows more than 2 files to be open at once.
We ended up copying the data to one of the clients to run reports.
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04 October 2002, 11:02 AM
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mmm sage... :rooleyes:
Sage uses huge amounts of bandwidth because of endless read/writes.
the local caching stuff is supposed to be out on V9 however I haven't seen a copy yet to play with..
Why not run it in terminal sessions much smoother.
Sage uses huge amounts of bandwidth because of endless read/writes.
the local caching stuff is supposed to be out on V9 however I haven't seen a copy yet to play with..
Why not run it in terminal sessions much smoother.
04 October 2002, 11:16 AM
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Just done some testing using a particular report with and without antivirus software running (Norton in this case). Times with AV on were 5 and a bit mins, without 45 secs! The same report under NT4 would have been around 10 secs.
But switch of AV at your peril with bugbear about!
But switch of AV at your peril with bugbear about!
04 October 2002, 11:32 AM
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Not used Norton, but with NAI on a server...
Can you not exclude just the Sage folder on the server from being scanned?
Getting Sage to run on TSE / MetaFrame is a nightmare in IMO. I spent ages testing and playing to get a stable config.
Can you not exclude just the Sage folder on the server from being scanned?
Getting Sage to run on TSE / MetaFrame is a nightmare in IMO. I spent ages testing and playing to get a stable config.
04 October 2002, 11:40 AM
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Its the autoprotect feature I shut down. Don't know what sort of control I've got over what it can and can't scan. a quick look seems to suggest different file extensions.
Just tried a TS session with Line50. Granted its on my PC with full admin rights but it ran the same report as before in less than 10 secs. Not sure this is the answer (beancounter is twitchy about using TS) but its the same kind of speed that we had with NT4 client & server.
Just tried a TS session with Line50. Granted its on my PC with full admin rights but it ran the same report as before in less than 10 secs. Not sure this is the answer (beancounter is twitchy about using TS) but its the same kind of speed that we had with NT4 client & server.
09 October 2002, 09:15 AM
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Sorry about the delay. My friend says this has worked in the past.
Within the Sage Line 50 folder on W2K server ther should be a file called SGRepSvr.exe. Double click on this and it will add the Sage Report Server icon on the windows toolbar.
Hopefully this may do the trick???
Within the Sage Line 50 folder on W2K server ther should be a file called SGRepSvr.exe. Double click on this and it will add the Sage Report Server icon on the windows toolbar.
Hopefully this may do the trick???
09 October 2002, 09:46 AM
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Not tried v8 in a TS session, but the older versions use the machine name to monitor who is logged in.
It's okay when everyone logs in - they show up as "user x" on the same PC. When the first user logs off, all instances of that machine name are deleted. Hence you can still have a number of people logged in but not showing on the active user list.
You have to change the registry to have the username reported to Sage as machine the name.
It's okay when everyone logs in - they show up as "user x" on the same PC. When the first user logs off, all instances of that machine name are deleted. Hence you can still have a number of people logged in but not showing on the active user list.
You have to change the registry to have the username reported to Sage as machine the name.
11 October 2002, 03:23 PM
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I've got a copy of version 9 now and I'll be trying it out one night next week. I'll post a yeah or nay for performance improvements as and when.
Interesting that Sage blame Microsoft...
Does any other program that uses ODBC suffer in this way?
Interesting that Sage blame Microsoft...
The performance loss is due to inherent behaviour in Windows 2000. Sage Accounts uses ODBC to generate information for reports, and when running a query will create temporary files. Windows 2000 does not cache this data locally, which results in increased network traffic and a decrease in performance.
11 October 2002, 05:07 PM
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I had a play with Line 50 V7 on my customers LAN yesterday.
Server - NT 4
Client - W2000 Pro
Much faster new PC (faster CPU, more RAM etc) but reports run into minutes now instead of seconds.
Have repatched the PC directly into the 10/100 backbone switch on the LAN to ensure max bandwidth. Installed the latest Intel 10/100 NIC drivers on the client.
Turned NetShield / VirusScan on & off on the Server + Client.
Net result.
No improvement. Will be looking into the info Mark has kindly sent me as I'm not keen on upgrading all the clients.
Server - NT 4
Client - W2000 Pro
Much faster new PC (faster CPU, more RAM etc) but reports run into minutes now instead of seconds.
Have repatched the PC directly into the 10/100 backbone switch on the LAN to ensure max bandwidth. Installed the latest Intel 10/100 NIC drivers on the client.
Turned NetShield / VirusScan on & off on the Server + Client.
Net result.
No improvement. Will be looking into the info Mark has kindly sent me as I'm not keen on upgrading all the clients.
23 October 2002, 03:59 PM
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<rant>
Got hold of Version 9 upgrade. It is a fecking pain. Client and Server need to be running IE 5.5 or better. How many of you guys' servers still running good old IE5? So I decide to upgrade. Not only does IE upgrade require a reboot so does fecking Sage (install shield components or something). Only got a small network and Sage was destined for the same server as the rest of the data so I couldn't kick all the users off, tempting though it was. So I was on the night shift
And another thing! Installed 2 clients, thought things were ok until I tried to run a report. Couldn't find data source error - so I checked the ODBC settings. V9 driver had not been installed on either of them. Remove and reinstall fixed it. Getting a bit sceptical here so checked the server install. Same thing, no V9 ODBC driver. So that got removed and reinstalled.
</rant>
So is V9 any better? Jury's out subject to more thorough testing by the bean counters but early indications suggest NO.
I'll keep you posted.
Have tried TS with the registry patch shown below from Microsoft Knowledgebase article (Article ID: Q190159):
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Terminal
Server\Compatibility\Applications\SAGE*
Class Name:
Name: FLAGS
Type: REG DWORD
Data: 0x18
*Executable was SFW in Sage prior to V9
This is a snippet from Sage relating to the above patch.
If anyone wants the whole article let me know.
Quick TS question because my brain has fused. I can run Sage under TS with my login (full admin rights) but not with a pleb's login. Where do I change the necessary permissions?
Cheers
Mark
Got hold of Version 9 upgrade. It is a fecking pain. Client and Server need to be running IE 5.5 or better. How many of you guys' servers still running good old IE5? So I decide to upgrade. Not only does IE upgrade require a reboot so does fecking Sage (install shield components or something). Only got a small network and Sage was destined for the same server as the rest of the data so I couldn't kick all the users off, tempting though it was. So I was on the night shift
And another thing! Installed 2 clients, thought things were ok until I tried to run a report. Couldn't find data source error - so I checked the ODBC settings. V9 driver had not been installed on either of them. Remove and reinstall fixed it. Getting a bit sceptical here so checked the server install. Same thing, no V9 ODBC driver. So that got removed and reinstalled.
</rant>
So is V9 any better? Jury's out subject to more thorough testing by the bean counters but early indications suggest NO.
I'll keep you posted.
Have tried TS with the registry patch shown below from Microsoft Knowledgebase article (Article ID: Q190159):
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Terminal
Server\Compatibility\Applications\SAGE*
Class Name:
Name: FLAGS
Type: REG DWORD
Data: 0x18
*Executable was SFW in Sage prior to V9
This is a snippet from Sage relating to the above patch.
After the modification has been added Sage Line 50 will list the unique Sage user name followed by the network login name. Each network login is unique and therefore Sage Line 50 will be able to recognise that there are separate users logged in.
Quick TS question because my brain has fused. I can run Sage under TS with my login (full admin rights) but not with a pleb's login. Where do I change the necessary permissions?
Cheers
Mark
24 October 2002, 04:46 PM
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Believe it or not Sage Tech support has actually been helpful. The TS issue is resolved by making sure the Users group is assigned to a series of DLL's in the Line50 directory and a couple in \winnt\system32 on the local . The permissions needed are Read & Execute and Read.
Apparently this issue also comes about when applying Service Pack 1 to Version 8
If any of you need the details let me know
Apparently this issue also comes about when applying Service Pack 1 to Version 8
If any of you need the details let me know
31 October 2002, 01:04 PM
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Here's an update. The beancounter has returned and tried to run his reports using V9. Performance is woeful. If anything its worse than before. Not just reports. Simply using the find feature in Financials took nearly 4 mins to find a particular record on a 20k data set.
So, its round n (n being a hooooge integer) with Sage support.
I'll post any developments
So, its round n (n being a hooooge integer) with Sage support.
I'll post any developments
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