super_si

im dont know what i wanna do now i talk to people whove done MSCEs and have a good job from it what would you do

An MCSE in some disapln BSc Computer Science OR BSc Software Engineering, I just dont know anymore thinking Info Systems aswell maybe

Si

snowcrash

what r u talking about m8?

David_Wallis

you wouldnt get a job working for me with either of them... best bet is **** uni off... get a job, probably on a low starting wage circa 16,000 and then train up maybe doing the odd course, w2k server / professional... get experience which is more important... then learn how organisations use NT 4 / Active Directory / NDS in the real world... not how they tell you its done in the courses..

After all they dont tell you on your course that when your running a big NT 4 network as we are, that the first w2k pro machine you bring on line will start winning elections... and then some office worker turns it off..

Basically get the job = experience and get the mcse, ccna, cne, mcne, ase, cca, ccea whatever through either on the job training or a training centres they pay you to go to..

I was nearly an mcse in nt4... just needed 1 more elective which I did.. (Implementing and Supporting SMS 2.0 but never took the exam as any tom dick or harry had mcse's at the time... the 2k mcse books are on my desk.. but cant be bothered..)

Hope this makes sense... but Im sure others will disagree..

I was the youngest mcp in the country... possibly the world.. once - Age 15... Been in IT too long

I can also prove the above fact if you want

David

super_si

i get what you mean about that

How else could i be a programmer tho(ideally)
With the aptitude or maths?

Si

ChrisS/P1

I would drop the whole idea if I were you. There are thousands of developers etc out there with a lot of experience, who just can't get jobs. You'll be up against some stiff competition, after the recent spate of downsizing. I've got a BSc in IT and 8 years experience, and I've been looking for 5 months.
Then again, I suppose things could get better by the time you finish the course.

super_si

Where can i get a job?? yorks not buzzing place for them leeds is close! Any surgestions?

Simon

snowcrash

personally i went down the degree route (parental pressure ) and I wish i didn't - best bet is to work as a junior/assistant in a large organisation (i.e. HP, IBM, EDS, ...) then work your way around and find something you want to do, thereby picking up qualifications (MCSE's, MCP's, NCP's, CCNA's blablabla) and then finding a niche for yourself. Then after 5 years (experience gained) start looking again...

although if i had my own choice way back 6 years ago and knew what i knew now, i wouldn't of even gone into IT..! and i wouldn't have done a degree in IT :|

good luck!

http://www.jobserve.co.uk
http://www.CWJobs.co.uk
http://www.gojobsite.co.uk
http://www.PlanetRecruit.com
http://www.rexonline.co.uk
http://www.monster.co.uk
http://uk.careers.yahoo.com/
http://www.topjobs.co.uk
http://fish4.co.uk/jobs/index.jsp

David_Wallis

im working in leeds.. I am allways looking for jobs... like thingy said its dead at the moment...

Norwich union in york might be worth trying... also halifax are recruiting.

David

Phill

If i were you then i would go for the vocational route sir...

you could cover ur **** by taking both an application focused course such as an MCSE alongside something like a Cisco course such as the CCNA (cisco cert. net admin)which is a basic intro. to WAN's and alike I started doing 1st line support for a telco and and now work in the transmission side of things, deisgning and building converged voice and data WAN's.

Start by getting a job with MCSE training as part of it and do the CCNA or similar in your own time (minimal cost). A BSc is AFAIK not worth the paper it's printed on it may as well be a history degree (no offence to the clever guys n gals that got them !) but as said real world apttitude is what is needed !

Good luck,

Phill

super_si

Norwich union wheres all me mates are though! just genrally sitting at a PC all day n they dont have a clue about pcs! that what u mean? just sit typing something all day?

Si

super_si

What should i search for aswell in there job pages! like that 1st link

VB york! or something? more general?

ChrisB

Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

stevencotton

I totally agree with the above, although not having a degree myself has annoyed me for one reason. I have 12 years IT experience, 10 of those internet related, and I can't get a job in a bank (because I'm a money *****) simply because I don't have a degree. I spent 5 mounths out of work after being made redundant, not nice and bye bye Scooby. I don't know if I'd go into IT if I was starting out now, I'd probably save for a hot air ballon, get a PPL and offer rides

Steve.

David_Wallis

Chris...

Whats the world coming to... just cant get the staff.. You want it doing properly then do it yourself.

Problem we have here is they know how to fix it, they just dont know why... or how to stop it happening in the first place... Whats even worse is people asking really simple questions... when they could just use their initiative (sp) and go to www.google.com and type in how do I convert a basic disk to a dynamic disk or
How do i find the mac address of a machine..

This sort of thing really p1sses me off, as when you apply for jobs people still say mcse would be a distinct advantage..

David

super_si

yeah i wouldnt have minded going into TSB when i graduated but im getting real sick of lectures and im getting bored n in debt could be the solution just email couple people about te jobs ive seen like network support etc

super_si

cmd

ipconfig/all??

ChrisB

Too right David.

I don't mind explaining how to do something once, but I get really [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] if somebody keeps asking me again and again.

I don't expect people to know the answer to every error or every event log entry, but I do expect to know where to look for help... Google / MS KB / Deja / NNTP etc.

I trained as a CCA as we needed it to get Citrix Partner status but I can't see what benefit MCSE would have on my CV.

super_si

its so hard to find a job though , there doesnt seem much about for some one as young as me these days!

suba

be a footballer then.

super_si

puffs rugby league mate

chiark

ah, league is the man's game is it? Right ho.

More seriously, how old are you?

I'd recommend doing a BSc but now more than ever it costs a lot of money... I did computer science at Leeds and got a job at Unisys as a result. That was 7 years ago, and I'm doing fine now with them.

Depending on your age, perhaps a career's advisor would be a good bet too?

Formal qualifications, whether degree or MCSE, help you get a foot in the door, nothing else, from an employer's perspective. From a personal perspective, the experience of university taught me more than the courses ever could.

David_Wallis

can ping the machine then do arp -a

could use winmsd \\machinename

fairly sure ipconfig /all shows it near the netbios info..

Sms will also tell you.

David

super_si

hehe i can mac addy then! hehehe

I dunno scary to leave uni though the REAL WORLD!!

I played rugby league few years stopped this year 14stone ish 6" could do 100m 13secs last year! ! i miss not playing not big enough

super_si

doh 19 sorry 20 september

DavidRB

Years ago (before I started at Uni), I had a summer job at Coca-Cola and at one point, I had to man the 'phones for a combined job/degree course that they were starting - you went to college half the year and worked for Coke the other half. The entry requirements were quite strict, GCSE Maths & English and three A-levels. Experience didn't count for ****, if they didn't have the qualifications, I had to hang up on them. Didn't matter if they'd run their own company, they weren't getting in without qualifications.

The same goes for a degree. Like it or not, a degree will open doors that an MCSE never will, particularly if you decide to leave the IT industry and work somewhere else.

That said, neither qualification is a guarantee of ability. I'd also learn how to spell discipline if I were you.

David_Wallis

why would you want to leave its where the money is... or supposed to be... I need at least another 7k a year before ill be at the market rate...

I wouldnt mind going up against some of these 'consultants' with mcse's, the other month I sent a compaq engineer back with I kid you not strict instructions not to come back... also told the company they work for.. (not mentioning names)..

Tried telling me that to replace a faulty disk on our SAN (Raid 5)that he had to turn it off.. ****.. its got a online hot spare anyway... and then said that as I had done it whilst it was on he would have to rebuild the array 230gb says your not.. I said just leave me with the disk, you can go... ****..

And I was thinking about doing my compaq certification.. might just do cisco instead..

David

snowcrash

david - lol comHPaq are crap , but as everything is outsourced nowerdays most people don't know the skill level of the sort of people that come out to them.. I pretty much worked in jobs through the whole of my degree (5+years IT/Network Support and OEM PC Building/Support, Network Installation, in large and small organisations) and i still can't get a proper job

super_si - this is the sort of thing i mean:
http://www.gojobsite.co.uk/showvac/_...2165/910595165

[Edited by snowcrash - 6/20/2002 8:51:54 PM]

super_si

that looks dead good thanks mate!

kimera

lol, im compaq ASE storageworks, he sounds like a typical compaq guy, they know *** all about there own stuff.

si, i started when i was 17 on £100 a week after dropping out of uni coz they know nowt about whats going on these days. Im now 25 and a "consultant" not microsoft dave (they stink). show initiative, eagerness to learn, know where to go for answers and you wont go far wrong.

super_si

thats the thing its all theroy i mean assembler! **** assembler i never want to use it! unis to general not specific to todays problem that job looks real good tho but i dont have the experience!

Si