On standard internals that is.

Getting to the stage where mine requires a little more....

What sort of safe power would we be talking with just a remap?

 

Just had PPP fitted to my standard Spec D. Very pleased with it, fantastic bottom end aswell.

Downpipe, rear section, fuel pump and ECU. 316 bhp apparently, but not had it dyno'd.
Nice subtle burble, nothing too much which was what I wanted.

 

Yeah my 2.5 STi is on standard internals, Got full exhaust, filter, fuel pump, FMIC, Remap and bits ive forgot, and been running 377bhp 412lb/ft, Car done 55k miles, been mapped since it was near enough new!!!

If it breaks it breaks.

 

I like that way of thinking mate

 

So do I.

Mines had a recent new head gasket and is showing good compression on all cylinders.

350ish would be nice without doing too much.

Fuel pump, decat then remap. Hmmm

 

I think as long as you're prepared for the worst and have the money/ability to fix it if things go pear shaped then go for it. The same applies to any engine not just the chocolate 2.5

 

If it's dealer OEM fit PPP they haven't touched the downpipe

It's basically a back box, ECU flash and a fuel pump

http://www.prodrive.com/up/06MY%20STi%20PPP.pdf

 

Time for an upgrade as they say.

 

I am not even sure they put a fuel pump on the hawk ppp tbh.

 

dont believe they do no

 

The pistons are the weakest link in the 2.5 engine (wrx and sti).. but they fail standard or mapped, yes there is sensible power and torque levels not to go beyond on the standard pistons but with the standard turbo installed you shouldnt have an issue because of that.
With remapping it is possible to make certain adjustments to try and limit the risk but its not possible to remove the risk of future piston damage.. the piston construction and what they are made from is such that the ringland can fail, its is however lucky that normally they causes no damage to the block... so its a case of new pistons and rings and therefore is relatively cheap to fix as engine rebuilds go... obviously there are exceptions to that.

remapped with a decat and panel filter and fuel pump (the standard pump can sometimes be upto the job, but its that sometimes thats worrying, its up to the job today but maybe not in a months time, therefore best to install an uprated pump) you should be looking at 350-360bhp and 390-400lb torque.

heres an example


Simon

 

The 2.5 would anecdotally appear to struggle with the stock output of 276bhp on the hawks and 296bhp on the hatches.

It's throwing caution to the wind running anymore than Subaru dare to (340bhp on the latest cars) in my limited but burned fingers experience.

Running it 100bhp higher and over 400lbft through standard bearings is asking for a completely new engine if you ask me, that's not just going to crack a piston when it inevitably goes to ****.

 

standard bearings have no issue with power or torque.. the only weak point is the pistons as these sorts of levels.. the standard 2.5block is fine to 450.

unfortunately their are exceptions to the rule and you appear to have been burned by it.

 

Once bitten twice shy I guess, I wouldn't run a stock 2.5 ever again. I was really lucky to pick it up when I did, pistons and HG were absolutely screwed though.

Any engine is a risk don't start me off on 911s!

Currently running a fully forged lump with no issue, it is a bit extreme to recommend that for every application but I do wonder though why Subaru didn't revise the engine with stronger pistons and bolt the HG down tighter.

 

cost I expect..

 

I ran a standard 2.5 lump in my my05 sti for 5 years without issue. With supporting mods the car ran 370/370 at 1 bar of boost. Only recently removed after having a 2.1 stroker built in an attempt to reach the 500 club. I must have been 1 of the lucky 1's I guess

 

Mine is running around 360-370 and is nearly 60k now but I'm planning for the worst lol

 

can easily sort Keith if you need a chat about a few things.............

 

Could one of the mappers/specialists PM me a price for carberry rom remap?? Wanting just 1 map, mafless, launch and anti lag on a 06 Hawk STi.

 

I'm probably miles out here but I thought carberry was only for sti's up to 2005. Thought the newer sti's used racerom?

 

Carberry not available on 06 onwards but tbh I am not convinced that carberry is a correct solution for any newage tbh.

Big weak point on the hawk 2.5 sti and wrx is the oil pick up pipe. These can fail at ANY time and with it they take the crank, rods and lots of other bits with them. Easy to spot the symptoms with an oil pressure gauge before it gets to be a problem though.

Always check these on engine removal strip down and besides having seen two of these go on my own engines, I see it probably 50% of the time on a 2.5 engine.

As Simon said the 2.5 is normally fine to 370-380 if mapped to help mitigate any ringland issues, but with stronger pistons they will take a lot of abuse and make for a stunning road car because of the torque and instant spool up. Works out at £1500 or so drive in drive out for forging the pistons and head gaskets so it isnt really that expensive either tbh compared to a full forged build.

Love mapping them though and mapping a std sti or wrx gives massive improvements as the std map is so tame. The PPP maps are ok but still room for driveability and safety improvements.

 

Hi Duncan
What are the symptoms of a cracked oil pick up?
Thanks

 

Initially the oil pressure drops excessively on warm up...

When really bad the oil pressure drops to 1 bar or so on hot idle even with good oil in there.

The pipe splits around the brazed part at the front of the pipe where it bolts into the bottom of the block and draws in air when really it ought to be sucking up pure oil lol.

Essentially starves the bearings of oil and will cause bottom end failure if giving it full beans or just wear the bearings unnecessarily on normal useage.

Very common failure and as far as I have seen the most likely cause of a bottom end failure on the 2.5.

NASIOC covers it in massive detail.

Here is one of mine:

 

I had the oil pick up go on mine luckily I caught it in time before it did any real damage deffo reccomend getting this changed to prevent potential disaster

 

Ok thanks, what would we expect idle oil pressure to be when very hot?

 

Thats correct.

Ecutek racerom is for drivebywire cars so 2005 onwards, hawk, hatch and latest saloon and gtr35 etc.
two full maps, throttle blip, launch control, flatshift

 

Dodgy oil pick ups, chocolate pistons and head gaskets made of puff pastry. Nice.

I genuinely would love to see 2.0 vs 2.5 failure rate statistics.

Shame because if built properly that 2.5 is a great engine!

 

Thanks Alyn, do you do your own mapping now?

I know you used to get Andy F down a while back and map a few cars at a time.