Creepy

I've just had a few days together with some friends on the Franchorchamps track, here in Belgium.

We hired an expert driver to teach us the tricks of the real drivers.
I always tought that I could drive fast and safe within the limits of my car, but compared with what I learned the last 3 days, it's like I drove all the time with my handbrake on !!!!

Everybody has changed something on their scoob, an exhaust, brakes, turbo-upgrades or just a rear spoiler. But here is a tought about all this.
The most of the Subaru drivers change things like dampers, springs and brakes because they think they reach the limit of it...

Let's say, a car with standard dampers and springs is slower than a car with fully adjustable Leda suspension on it.
Well, this is wrong !!!!

Our instructor had a drive with a standard MY 2000, except from an exhaust and 17" rims with 215/40-17 S03 tyres.
We drove a Ecutek MY03, with leda, AP 330 brakes and the full monthy on it.
We both knew the circuit very wel and he passed us like we were crising on Santa Monica Boulevard.

The thing I try to say here is that we use our cars mostly on normal open roads, and occasionally on a circuit. So why spend all that money on un-neccesary upgrades ?
Subaru has already made their homework with the suspension... Ok, the brakes deserve an upgrade but, with some decent pads and discs you can already make it xxx-times better.

In this 3 days I learned more about driving then in the 15 years I drive a car. Like car control in corners, (dare to trow your car in the corner), braking, accelerating out of corners and so on....

In our case, it was a rally driver that did this in his free time, so it doesn't have to cost 1000's of Euro's.

But I know one thing now : I have a MY 00, with standard suspension and 4 pot Subaru brakes with Prodrive discs, and I go a lot quicker now because I learned to feel the limit of my car on 100 % of using it.

An average driver will go with my car on 70% and thinks that he sits on the limit, but the last 30 % he don't use because then, the tyre's will chirp, the suspension will be fully used and the brake-points will be very tricky to judge..

An advice on all the tracks drivers : First, learn to go fast (100%) with your car, and then, start to upgrade.
Because if you first do all the goodies, like brakes and so... You cannot guess what the limit is because it's too far away too reach, especially with a Subaru.

It has cost us about 500 € / person for 3 days of fun, and I already know now that this was the best upgrade I did on My Subaru....


Creepy,

integrale

Quality reading mate. I did a few specialist track courses with my Integrale and boy they were good.

So all we need now is someone who can get Brands hatch on the cheap and is best mates with Tommi or one of the Mcrae brothers....can feel a group buy comming on for a Scoobynet track day.....if nayone fancies organising it they can count me in.

Creepy

Just a little add on : I live in Belgium. We have a few tracks here but they are only for race purposes : Francorchamps, Zolder, ... But sometimes there are free driving days, and then you can go on with a road car. But I find it a little expensive...

I prefer then the 'Ring' because I love the drive and like that circuit and its surroundings...

Creepy,

MickeyWRX

not surprised Belgium is flat as ****! lol

john coffey

As someone pointed out to me in one of my recent threads concerning mods, Driver Training is the only mod that doesn't lose money when you sell the car.

johnfelstead

Sorry mate, but your wrong there. He wouldnt go criusing past me with my Leda and AP's in a standard car, even with my standard engine.

The rest of your sentiments are OK though, driver training does help you get the most out of the car and yourself.

[Edited by johnfelstead - 5/30/2003 6:11:07 PM]

Creepy

Ok, I spelled it a little wrong here John, the point is that most of the guys change brakes/suspension because they "feel" that they reach the limit with the original parts, but they only used them for, let's say 80 %.
And then with the uprated parts, they think they go faster but it's just only the car that behaves flatter (suspension) and directer (brakes).
But when you reach THEN the ultimate point, it's totally over because only a few can hold the car then...
And that don't include me, maybe in a year or 2 when I finish the whole course...

Creepy

Creepy

@ John : You are probably faster over the Ring in a standard Turbo with 218 bhp then the average driver in a fully specced Ecutek-Leda-AP-Scoobysport-HKS-Forge-... Type RA...., so it's all in the right feet and experience...

The next thing I will do is a training course in Germany on the Ring, maybe you can play teacher ?

Disco

Nice post and I agree totally, the best trackday 'mod' you can ever do is learn to drive your car properly.

johnfelstead

what you say is correct, its probably the language diferences that made the first post in part sound like you are wasting your money on the upgrade stuff, period, which isnt correct.

I have said for a long time on this BBS, go get some profesional coaching or sit with an experienced quality driver, you learn so much and will be quicker yet safer as a result. I have never understood how its acceptable to get some coaching in other sports like Golf, tennis, football yet to do the same in driving is a reflection on your manhood. You are not born knowing everything so it makes sense to get some training. Unfortuantely there arent that many handling coaches out there.

It would be nice to be paid to teach people some of the things i have learned, especially so at the ring.

jabbroni

Hi John how are you are u at croft this sunday?,apologies for thread hijack.

Creepy

John, I will mail you when I go to the Ring, probably within 2 or 3 weeks.
The Ring is now closed for tourist drives till 10 june I think...

johnfelstead

i hadnt planned on being at croft on sunday, i take it you are giving the 22B a run?

Sure, drop me a mail if you like Creepy.

ADP

yeh, its the player not his boots.

however a pro in Woolworths boots would be held back, get my point.

a standard car probably is not going to hold the average driver back, but some well chosen upgrades will help him, but even more so a good driver.

Leslie

Pete Lewis will love you Creepy

Les

Spoon

I'm with that Creepy until you can really drive and you are on a track then most of the "fashionable" mods are pointless on the road.

Creepy

@ leslie : who is Pete LEwis ????

ps : I'm a Belgian...

Leslie

Just mention modding and gold wheels and you will soon find out Creepy.

I used to love the Moules Frites at Knokke le Zout

Les

Pavlo

how much faster would the pro drive have sailed past if he was in the leda car and you were in the std one?



Paul

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Most regular track day drivers find the limits of std cars quite quickly. It's first timers that need tuition and a re-evaluation of the understanding of what cars can do.

I have always taken advantage of free tuition at trackdays as there's always something to be learnt or tecnique that can be honed.

I find brakes is the best place to start improving the car and it's essential if you become regular at trackdays.

F