I know that any responses to this post may be a 'little' biased, but I really need some help with this....

I'm going to need a newer car soon, currently running a 944, and have been looking at the scoobs for some time, nearly even brought an Sti last year, but after hearing news of the new version thought I'd wait to see the outcome. Glad I did as IMHO they look a lot better in the face/wallet department.

However during my wait for the new version my mind wandered and I started looking at the Audi S3. Seems like a sorted little car, with better build quility and reliability than the Subaru (dont mean to upset anybody, hence my post)

What are your thoughts?? Has anybody every owned one?

Could really do with your help on this to avoid making a £25'000 mistake..

Cheers
N

 

One of the guys in the office here was thinking of a new PPP STi until someone on the Lotus board (he has an Elise now) pointed out that you can get a 2-3 year old 40k mile M5 for under £30k from a BMW main dealer.

That's the new shape M5 - best part of £60k new !

He's having a bit of a re-think

 

It really does depend on what you are looking for.
If you want a comfortable 'smaller' car with all the gizmos and options, lower insurance and running costs then go for the S3.

If you want a reasonably comfortable performance car, and can stand the running costs then go for the Impreza.

Perfomance wise the STI as standard is in a different league to the S3(unmodified), both in terms of straightline speed and driver involvement.

The best advice is to try both and see what you prefer.

 

Thanks Neil

This is one of my biggest problems. I want a performance car that is going to last and not going to cost the national debt of a small country to keep running - is this the Holy Grail?

Having never owned a scoob b4, and after reading many messages on this board, I gather that the running costs are quite high. Are there any threads that would outline the basic costs I'd likely to incurr in the first 3 years - servicing etc?

Would the power difference be 'that' noticable in normal driving conditions? 275bhp V's 225bhp in the S3.

Cheers for the comments so far.

N

 

Noodle

Costs for my STI-7 so far(excluding PPP)

Insurance £850
Fuel average at 22Mpg(mostly motorway)
Servicing
1000 Mile - 34 Quid
Personal choice oil change at 5000 miles(not mandatory by Subaru dealers but a very good idea) 60 quid(inc oil)
10,000 mile(1 year) £160
Body service £100
Don't know what the 20,000 mile(2 year) is like, but probably in the region of £240

So for 3 years the servicing would be
Yr 1
£34
£60(optional)
£160
£100 (optional, but recommended body service
Year 2
£60(Optional)
~£240(year 2)
Year 3
£60(Optional)
£400(Big service)

Tyres are between 80 and 130 each and last about 10-15K miles
Brake pads I dunno but I suspect around the £150 mark and should last 20-25K
Brake Disks £240?? and should last 30-50K

Hope this is of use. I don't know a lot of exact amounts because I don't run standard brakes and i've not had a 20K service yet.

Performance wise, The STI will be all over a standard S3, although it's possible to modify the S3 to around 300Bhp plus(but you do lose warranty if I recall).

The STI can be upgraded to 300Bhp via a myriad of routes, but only one will retain the 3 year warranty and that is the Prodrive Peformance pack(PPP) and that will cost £1995

 

Have had 2 S3's, second one had 270bhp/300lbs ft and was quick as a standard P1, does not handle as well and steering is horrible, brakes are crap as well. Running costs on an S3 are pretty decent, compared with evos and scoobs. I would strongly recommend an MTM chip and exhaust upgrade if you do get one. I have a 330ci now and it feels slow in comparison.

 

My A3 has just gone back to the lease company after 3 years of reletively happy motoring, (I now run an MY00 classic scoob).
The A3 was only a 1.8 so I can't really compare performance, only to say the Scoob is B****y quick !.
Build quality on the Audi is good but it aint no Bentley. And I had some annoying problems with the dash and seats.
I looked at both the S3 and the Scoob I now have, but opted for the Scoob for space reasons, the A3/S3 is very cramped in the back, (with two kids).
Basically drive both, but I'd still go for the Subaru. You pay an awful lot for those 4 rings !!

 

Somebody on the Seat BBS was saying they keep needing new coil packs. Common parts...

 

Noodle - I've just got a MY02 WRX with PPP and it replaced a Golf V6 4Motion, a close'ish relation to the S3.

I didn't keep the Golf long because although the speed was reasonable the whole driving experience was a little numbing and generally not very involving (IMHO).

It did the quality thing well, all the switches and dash were great, good look and feel (and the Audi should be at least the same or better) but it was a bit too sanitised for me. Also for the performance it had it did not handle well enough (and I have read a couple of road test reports stating similar thoughts about the S3).

My first 3000 mile impressions of the Impreza are that it is a drivers car - the setup and handling is for a proper sports saloon not something pretending to be one. Sure the luxuries are not the same but I wanted a more involved driving experience and it is. The quality of the interior is not as bad as I was expecting (and the STi is an imporvement on mine plus MY03's are an improvement again apparently).

It cruises well on the motorway (although not as quiet as the Golf but not too noisy to be a problem - just reminds you that the engine is a peach) and is fantastic fun on the a and b roads at the weekends (or on the way to work if I want to go the fun route).

I would say driving a Scooby puts a smile on your face (and a dent in your wallet for the increased servicing costs....and insurance...and fuel...but its worth it, for me anyway).

 

I have also had a golf 4motion before my S3s and it is nothing like an S3. 4motion was crap, too soft and too much body roll and the steering was way too light. S3 is a much classier (and capable) bit of kit than a golf 4motion. The only redeeming factor obout the golf was a nice engine and that ran out of puff long before the red line. Go for an S3 but budget for a couple of upgrades to make it a more focused car.

 

Many thanks Neil for the breakdown, it now gives me a rough idea of the ownership costs. To be honest it doesn't sound 'too' bad if you say it quickly.

I'm off to the Audi dealership on Saturday to have a quick peek at the S3, and I've spoken to my local Subaru dealer so that as soon as they get their demonstrator in I'm off for a spin in that.

Thanks to you other guys as well, it's answered a lot of my questions. I guess the proof is in the driving

Cheers again
N

 

I'd take the S3 every time. No comparision in build quality and refinement, handling...well whoever said a scooby is "a bad handling car with grip" was probably not far from the truth, and in terms of performance the options are quite extensive - from a simple chip upgrade giving you around 265bhp, right up to a 350bhp Turbo upgrade that's being developed at the moment. Oh - that's without the need for thislink, thatlink, whatever guages and an expression of impending doom on the driver if you venture out at any temperature below 3 degrees, or can't find SUL

 

Buy a Skoda Octavia 4x4, All Audi running gear on a Golf chassis & it will leave you £10,000 for tuning, You should then have a real wolf in sheeps clothing !!!! & all with the legendary Audi/VW build quality

 

how about a CTR?

 

Had both... Scoob wins hands down for 'smiles per mile'... and lets face it, thats why we are all on here isnt it?

Plus... you cannot pretend to be Burns/Vatinen/McCrae etc in a repmobile can you..... The Scoob just 'feels' special.

I run a MY01 WRX PPP at about 245bhp. The power is just enough (standard S3 cannot compete) BUT the noise it makes.... is to die for! There is no other car on the market apart from very expensive stuff and TVR's that make such an incredible noise - sheer drivers heaven! Even my friends Skyline sounds 'girly' by comparison (no offence intended ladies...)

Sure, they arent cheap to run and they are a little 'skoda' inside but for the price nothing beats it. New S3 = 27/28k (after extras like a stereo etc...!) Same money would buy you a UK STi with PPP and more fun than you could fit in an Cheryl Blairs flat!

Get a Scoob - you know you want to!
Mak.

 

At the end of the day, if you come to a subaru board and ask this question the you are going to get a pro-subaru response, if you go to tyresmoke or audi-sport you will get a pro-audi response. Having driven both, subaru drives better, S3 is a much better ownership prospect long term. For a small (ish) outlay, you will get a seriously quick car with decent runnning costs.

 

how about an Golf R32, in 3 yrs a bet it will be cheaper to run, and neally combines best of both worlds!!!!!!

 

scoobs have best cornering

 

Do a search, plenty of scoob vs S3 threads in the past.

Reliability wise I would say the scoob is just as reliable as an Audi S3. The general output from the previous threads is that the S3 needs better brakes (more so than the scoob ) and is numb from a drivers perspective. That and its a hatch and the scoob is a saloon or wagon.
Also, I'm pretty sure there is a problem with the 1.8T coil packs, from a manufacturing error, or so my boss was telling me - he has a 150 PD Golf, and was glad he got that over the 1.8T after seeing about the failures on the MK4 BBS.

Oh, and the scoobs faster (ziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip )

No idea on running costs of the S3, would have thought similar, perhaps better fuel consumption???

[Edited by ScoobyJawa - 1/8/2003 4:07:16 PM]

 

Noodle - if it were me I'd go for the Subaru as it's a newer model.

The S3 is a 6 year old design and will be replaced soon so residuals may be affected.
The new facelift for the Subaru (I hate using the word Scoob - disgusting name) has made it miles better so if you have the budget take a new STi.

That said, Subaru's are far more prone to being stolen and targeted for random stops by the fuzz. I have never been stoppped for a random check but a friend who has a UK300 has been stopped twice for "is this your car sir" stop - and he lives in the country!

That said, I won a TT so would go for that until I start to lug a family around!



[Edited by Stu-TT - 1/9/2003 10:40:39 PM]

 

Gotta agree with Stuart on this one....

(but thats probably cos I have a Skoda Octavia 4x4, simple and safe remap to 222bhp, 231lb ft - not quite S3 level but a lot cheaper )

..and yes, no one expects a Skoda (especially my pipe n slippers estate) to have that sort of power.

Ian

(oh and for any skoda info, head over to briskoda.net )

[Edited by ianc - 1/10/2003 10:06:04 AM]

 

Noodle,
Hope this helps !
The Scoob and s3 are totally different cars, I have taken some figures from a well known car mag for you ( hope they don't mind ).

S3
Price £ 24820
0-30 1.9
0-60 6.4
0-100 16.4
30-70 6.2
STANDING QTR MILE 15.00/94 MPH
TOP SPEED 145
KERB WEIGHT 1375KG
225 BHP
2061LB @ 2200-5500RPM
6 SPEED MANUAL
24.6/1000RPM IN TOP ( 6 )

RATING 6 OUT OF 10

VERDICT
A HIGHLY DESIRABLE MOTOR WITH TYPICALLY GOOD INTERIOR, BUT NOT AS EXCITING AS THE COMPETITION AVAILABLE FOR THE SAME MONEY.
THE S3 IS A COMPETENT ALL-ROUNDER BUT NOT THE HOT HATCH THAT IT CLAIMS TO BE.


SUBARU STI UK
PRICE 25995
0-30 1.7
0-60 4.9
0-100 13.5
30-70 4.7
STANDING QTR MILE 13.7/101 MPH
TOP SPEED 148
KERB WEIGHT 1470KG
261 BHP
2531LB @ 4000RPM
6 SPEED MANUAL
24.5/1000RPM IN TOP ( 6 )

RATING 8 OUT OF 10

VERDICT.
BUG EYE LOOKS TAKE SOME GETTING USED TO, BUT MOST PEOPLE WILL ONLY SEE THE BACK OF IT.
THE BEST IF NOT QUICKEST IMPREZA YET.

I hope this helps but the proof is in the eating, go and test drive the two cars.
I test drove an S3 some months back with a view to p/x for my Scoob as I was getting fed up with people cutting me up and pulling out and wanting to race me all the time ( the perks of driving a scoob ). The S3 is a very understated car and could pass as any A3 ( until you put your foot down )to the unknowing, the Scoob however cannot.

My overall thoughts on the S3 were excellent in almost all areas.

But I did'nt think it would still put a smile on my face a year or so down the line like the Scoob does.

The overall performance of the Scoob is quite some way ahead of the S3 but the S3 is quite some way ahead of the Scoob in spec/comfort and build quility.

The mag I took the figures from tested the S3 against a WRX/Focus RS/Seat and type R the S3 was trounced by the Seat but beat the Type R and was quoted as a league below the Ford and Scoob.

Saying that I think for my next car a bit of comfort will be higher than performance and then the AUDI range will be top of my list.

If performance is what you want then the Scoob wins hands down but then if comfort and class is your ball then the Audi is champ !

Arron.



[Edited by Arron - 1/10/2003 3:28:35 PM]

 

Thanx guys for all the input. I'm going to Lincoln tomorrow to play with a second-hand S3 to get a feel for the car.
I had an Sti for the day a while ago, and as you have all mentioned, Yes, I did have a BIG grin on my face whilst in the driving seat - let's see if the Audi can get near that enjoyment.
Will report back what my thoughts are of the S3 if anybody is interested.
Thanx again
N


[Edited by noodle - 1/10/2003 8:57:34 PM]