Gridlock Mikey

I have a MY00 UK car

Q1) What does Octane booster booster do?
Q2) How does it work
Q3) Is one bottle/tank load long enough for the ECU to adjust the engine to release the benefits?
Q4) Does a UK car really benefit?

What is silkolene booster like?

That's all folks

Cheers

Mikey

SCOOBERATORS

Hi Mickey

Q1) What does Octane booster booster do? (TURNS YOUR FUEL FROM 97-98 INTO 99-100 RON.(TRY TO USE OPTIMAX)
Q2) How does it work (ITS JUST A FUEL ADDATIVE,IN JAPAN ALL THERE CARS RUN ON 100 % RON.THE MORE RON YOU CAN RUN THE BETTER.
Q3) Is one bottle/tank load long enough for the ECU to adjust the engine to release the benefits? (3-4 TANKS)
Q4) Does a UK car really benefit? (THE CAR SHOULD RUN ALOT BETTER)

I use millers, but there is a large market for booster.

p.s I take it your car is de-cat,if not it would be better if it was.

Richard.............

Gridlock Mikey

Morning Richard, up early! Wet the bed?

Why is it that the more RON, the better?

I do run Optimax and I am Fully Decatted

3-4 Tanks........Bugger

Is millers the Daddy then and i presume scooby mania is the place to go, seeing as it's 2 minutes from where I live

Any more Octane booster type things that i need to know? Without getting to technical

Mikey

mutant_matt

I think NF is generally considered to be the daddy

nom

A different set of answers!
Q1) What does Octane booster booster do?
It slows the flame front to reduce knocking. As this is how RON is calculated, it does raise the RON, but doesn't actually increase power as 'real' higher RON would. (And Optimax is NUL with booster in it - don't add booster to Optimax!)
Q2) How does it work
Whoops, I think I've done that already!
Q3) Is one bottle/tank load long enough for the ECU to adjust the engine to release the benefits?
Nope. Well, depends on the car... next q...
Q4) Does a UK car really benefit?
Not over SUL as the UK isn't expecting 100RON. It probably would benefit if you'd just filled up with NUL as I'm pretty convinced - despite what it ways on UK cars - that they really need SUL permanently (EU imports, so same car, have stickers saying SUL only in the filler cap).

What is silkolene booster like?
Same, chemically, as the others. Different concentrates & pricing make all the difference here!

So with a UK car, keep some in the boot in case you can only find NUL & the little orange light is on but aside from that, not a lot of help!

Pavlo

Rather than repeat it.

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...=109409&Page=2

Real RON?

RON is RON is RON, if it ain't real, it ain't RON.

Paul

nom

RON is RON, but RON (measurement of the ability to not knock) is not what most people think it is (measuement of energy stored in a quantity if fuel)! If a higher RON rating is achieved by burning a higher energy fuel, then it can give a power release. If, however, the RON is there by merely reducing knock by slowing the flame front (so releasing the same energy over longer period, which gets round the knock problem to a point) as 'boosters' do, there is no benefit other than to reduce knock. No extra power, just a non-broken engine.
Which is nice
So boosters do their job, but not for the reason that people expect.
As in the other thread you point to, want you really want to do is get hold of some toluene...

TelBoy

NOS NOS NOS NOS NOS NOS NOS

Still haven't wiped the grin off my face. This stuff WORKS!!

Pavlo

Octane rating has nothing to do with energy stored in fuel.

Calorific value is what is used to measure energy stored in fuel.

You can also look at specific enthalpy of combustion, combustion balance equations and more to get the overall picture.

Increasing the octane rating of fuel allows you to run the engine in such a way as to make more power. Like higher compression, more boost (without having to retard ignition), more ignition advance (without wanting to increase boost) or any combination of the above.

I believe the latest ECUs will advance ignition from standard where there is no evidence of knock, in which case booster will probably help.

Paul

nom

So, in short, getting back to the original question - nope, a UK car doesn't benefit from booster except to raise NUL to SUL (if needed)

Pavlo

The 99-> cars would benefit, as their ECU's have more inteligence when it comes to higher octane fuel.

Benefits would be small.

Jap cars will benefit the more, some may need it to survive.

I just use Optimax, which I find better than regular SUL, of which Esso seemed the best.

Paul

nom

Agree Esso seems best! Optimax either excellent or poo - seems very variable...
I must admit I haven't dabbled with booster very much though as the only time I get appreciable (well, more than -2 degs) knock (MY00) is with Optimax on one of its bad days!

Gridlock Mikey

So in summary, UK cars = waste of time as far as performance concerned

What about easier flames?

Mikey

jason77

my car - alfa155, runs beter with octane boosters (NF IS the daddy! )

pulls a lot better from 70 upwards.. not much diff below that..

J

nitro

Q1) What does Octane booster do?
It slows the flame front to reduce knocking. As this is how RON is calculated, it does raise the RON, but doesn't actually increase power as 'real' higher RON would. (And Optimax is NUL with booster in it - don't add booster to Optimax!) THATS THE SIMPLE VERSION )
HMMMM VERY CONFUSING IF ONE "RON" DOSNT INCREASE POWER AND THE OTHER "RON" DOES. OF COARSE YOU CAN ADD BOOSTER TO OPTIMAX IF ITS "NF" THEN ONLY 1 ML PER LITRE OF THE RACE. OTHERS YOU NEED ONE BOTTLE !!!!!!!! OCTANE OR RON IS NOT OR HAS ANY REFERANCE TO "%" (SCOOBERATORS)125 OCTANE IS 125 OCTANE NOT 125%

Q2) COVERED ABOVE

Q3) Is one bottle/tank load long enough for the ECU to adjust the engine to release the benefits?
IF YOU HAVE THE STD ECU (FACTORY) THEN IT ONLY TAKES ABOUT A MINUTE OR AROUND 500 METERS TO START ADJUSTING!!!!!!!

Q4) Does a UK car really benefit? YES IF YOUR NOT RUNINNG AROUND 99.5 /100 OCTANE YES YOU WILL BENIFIT. ANY MORE THAN THAT AND YOU WILL START ON THE DOWN SLIDE. !!!!(STD CARS)

PAVLO YEP YOU GOT THAT RIGHT !!!)

NOM! DONT BET YOUR LEFTY ON THAT BOOSTER'S DONT GIVE MORE POWER AS YOU WILL LOSE IT )AS FOR YOUR TOLUENE HMM LIKE TO SEE YOU PUT 20 LITRES OF TOLUENE IN YOUR GLOVE BOX OR FOR MORE BETTER PLACE IN THE BOOT AND SEE WHAT DAMAGE YOU CAN DO.
20 LITRES ADDED TO A TANK GIVES 2.8 RON INCREASE JUST GO AND BUY SOME PAINT STRIPPER )THATS ALL IT IS!! WASHES YOUR BORES AND GENERALY (****'*) NOT ONLY YOUR ENGINE BUT CERTAINLY YOUR HEALTH.

TELBOY
YEP AND I BET THE IMPORTER'S CANT WIPE THE GRIN OFF THE FACE IF YOU LIKE IT SO MUCH )
YOU MUST BE A VERY RICH MAN ) AND IF IT WASNT FOR "NF" THEN YES THATS THE ONE THAT I WOULD USE.
HOPE YOUR GETTING THE OLD STOCK AND NOT THE NEW STOCK !!
ON 95 OCTANE FUEL YOU ARE GETTING 1.6 OCTANE INCREASE AND 98 1 OCTANE INCREASE IN 60 LITRES OF FUEL )BET YOU DIDNT KNOW THAT ???

nom

Methinks the yelling 'Nitro' might be an NF salesman or PR type. And not doing them very many favours.

TelBoy

Nitro,

I know we've been through the NF/NOS thing before on other threads, and i do understand your vested interest in NF. I haven't tried NF, so i can't comment, but my 97 WRX has NEVER been faster since i started using NOS. It absolutely flew this weekend. I reckon the difference is subjectively about 15bhp based on other mods i've had, which is definitely noticeable on the road.

People saying NF is the daddy is fine by me, but how many have tried NOS Racing Formula for comparison? Not many i'll bet..!

Terry

BoxerFlat4

I use NF - and yes I sell it, but I use it in my car, after trying others out (haven't tried NOS yet, trying to get a supply ! ), NF gave me the best results, and I'd use it even if I didn't sell it.

As to why, was running Optimax + Millers, crap power figures and detting. Switched back to BP SUL + NF, gained 20 BHP. Me one happy monkey now

If I was buying a product off someone, the best advert for it to me would be if the seller used it.

Gecko Motorsport


[Edited by BoxerFlat4 - 7/15/2002 4:17:03 PM]

nitro

NOM.
Nice reply but WHAT DID YOU EXPECT WHEN YOU SAY SOMETHING SILLY ABOUT TOLUENE ???? I'd rather be talking to a living NOM that a dead one ) Instead of voicing an opinion i only voice facts which have been done through research and so many tests back to back against anything or additive.

TELBOY
Hey im very pleased that you are getting great results with the "NOS" and i mean "NOS" as if you wern't then i would be disappointed and have to go back to the drawing board and make it work !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JUST GOES TO PROVE THAT YOU DONT NEED AS MUCH OCTANE INCREASE AS YOU THOUGHT YOU DID !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YOUR RESULTS ARE SPOT ON AS WITH THE HP INCREASE 6 KW'S @ THE WHEELS )
The rest ill let you work that out )!!!!

scoobdoo

Dont use wynns octane boost, I put it in my stiv5 and it caused the ecu to switch into limp home mode!

Trout...

IMHO - Optimax works well with NF - although not so well with Millers. It may well be that whatever formula Shell use it is already 'Millered' out in non-tech speak of course!

NF is that daddy tho - my WI broke on track - tipped a bottle of NF in and it was fine - and the WI on it's own makes a huge difference to the amount of advance in my map!

Trout

nitro

SCOOBDOO
Hmmm how interesting !!!! which bottle did you use ???
was it the spitfire octane boost or the race version in the black bottle ??

Pete Croney

OK, lets go back a bit though.

There are two problems here... 1) Flame front speed 2)Pre detonation

Flame front speed is exactly what it sounds like and instead of spreading at a set speed, it spreads too quickly. The speed of the flame front is why we used advance in the timing. The advance is set to allow for the speed of the burn, so that its energy works against the piston at the correct time. Flame front modifiers work by creating a reflective cloud when they burn. This reflects the energy back into the burning area and stops it spreading too quickly. This is exactly what lead did in petrol, forming mircoscopic clouds of white lead oxide on the flame front. Lead is still the best compound for achieving this. Many boosters work the same way and use manganese compounds to achieve it. Its these that leave the orange deposits every where. Its also why you have check that the booster being used is cat and lambda sensor friendly. Optimax has flame front modifiers in it. As these don't change the RON rating, this is why Shell say it is the equivalent of 98.6.

Pre detonation is different and it is the resistance to pre detonation that forms the basis of a RON rating. The test uses a variable compression engine. The engine is set running at a fixed speed and the compression is increased until the fuel pre detonates. This is where the whole charge becomes so unstable, due to the pressure and heat that it all reacts at the same time. Flame front modifiers will not stop this as there isn't a flame front. The only way to stop it is to change the molecular structure of the octanes in the fuel. By making these much more complex structures, you can affect the speed of the burn at atomic level. This is done by using octanes with leg type shapes coming off the main body. The oxygen molecules much break down the outer hydrogen and carbon molecules before the inner ones are exposed, so slowing the burn rate. Pro Boost and other Toluene/MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ester) boosters contain very complex octanes which are slow to burn. This is also the way that fuel companies blend the mix to obtain the RON rating. MTBE and toluene are pure hydrocarbons and leave no deposits.

This is why fuels like toluene and methanol have enormous RON ratings. Its also why some boosters are inflammable and some are.

I once ran out of fuel and drove to the next petrol station on pure Pro Boost.

Flame front and molecular burn speeds can have an adverse effect at the limit. Avgas has a high RON rating, but its additives give a very slow flame front too. It is designed for engines that run at low rpm. Don't expect good performance at 8,000 rpm from it as it just can't burn quickly enough. If you take it to the extreme, a petrol car will run on diesel, but you wont get much energy from the fuel.

raybotha

WOW Pete , that was interesting , thankyou . I thought I would just add my experience . I use what Engen(Mobil ?) apparently use to boost their octane from 91 > ... 97 . I have been told to add 300ml to a full tank of fuel . But my experience tells me it doesn't boost octane as much as quick burning . The fuel literaly feels as if it explodes . I can tell this by how the motor starts , with a bang , the motor actually sounds different .Very similar to adding aromatics like toulene/xylene . Almost like a scooby sport ,but in the motor . The feel of the car is extremely lively , just part throttle is needed to rev , the boost comes in earlier and the motor revs as if it is a racing unit . Now heres a thing . When I took ownership of the car , he had only used 97 , I started using 93 with 300ml of this stuff . It went like hell but pinged . So , not 97 then , but hell it was strong . I now use 97 and just 150ml per full tank , and quite honestly I dont think running 97 alone in my STI VII is worth it - it then feels like it need a decat or a ppp !!
I looked on the Engen web site and they have the chemical make up of their fuel . What I've learned is all octanes are not the same .

BTW : My brother , also STI VII ran an M3 (new one)by 2 car lengths to 160km/h , standard but for above 97 + booster .

Cheers
Ray

Pete Croney

Ray

It sounds like the additive isn't as effective as the manufacturers claim, or the fuel also needs some extra flame front retardation.

91-93 RON fuels will have very fast burn times.

Charlie H

Strange comments about optimax just being super with additives. I was led to believe that it is refined to 98 ron NOT just super that's been added to. I use it all the time and every other tank put in a bottle of millers and have never had any trouble with the running (93WRX)weird huh?

Pete Croney

Charlie

Also strange that there is no rating on the pump and that Shell quote "equivalent to... 98.6". Even stranger that the price is normally 2p a litre more than 95, although duty would account for more than this if it were 98+.

nom

...and if you look at the certificate at the petrol pump (somewhere behind the manager ), it is listed as 'enhanced 95' so they don't get done by customs & excise.

Muncher

So is Optimax essentially 95Ron with octane booster added ?

Am I better off with a true 97Ron with a dash of NF ?

dingy

Pete, you are saying toluene leaves no deposites, as in on the plugs ?

I think you need to check that, as it most definitly does. Tried toluene in test, comes out below NF, and its illegal in a Road Car, also compared to others its much stronger. But it defo leaves deposites on and inside the engine.