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Old 16 March 2014, 10:17 AM
  #31  
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A simple tip, that I find helps is do really cut down on carbs - especially large amounts just before bedtime

So no large portions of bread, rice, pasta, potatoes - late in the evening

Find to carbo load before lots of exercise though, but try generally cutting down

Tough for me as I love all of the above foods
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Old 16 March 2014, 10:44 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 View Post
A simple tip, that I find helps is do really cut down on carbs - especially large amounts just before bedtime

So no large portions of bread, rice, pasta, potatoes - late in the evening

Find to carbo load before lots of exercise though, but try generally cutting down

Tough for me as I love all of the above foods
This is so true & realising this really helped me. Grains pasta rice potatoes, they are all carbs & are all fattening. Don't get me wrong, you do need some carbs to maintain energy levels but most people consume way to much. I like one small portion of carbs with each meal & I mean small. I like to concentrate on protein & healthy veg & fruit.
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Old 16 March 2014, 01:27 PM
  #33  
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I decided to steer clear of mentioning the Low GI stuff because I felt my post(s) were already coming across a little to scientific (i.e. requiring people to make some effort to track what they are eating).

However, Leo is bang on right. I've only recently got to grips with the difference between low and high GI foods (typically, white vs brown carbs). I also believe this is another area where we come across a well known misleading statement..."low GI foods keep you feeling full longer"

Now this is 100% accurate but, IMHO, it's not the main selling point for switching to slower digesting carbs. The statement should be, "Low GI foods won't f**k you up with insulin"

As Leo touches on, controlling insulin is vitally important. When you eat fast acting sugars (and white breads, rice, etc are just that) your body can break them down very quickly and absorb them into your bloodstream. To protect itself, your body produces insulin and it normally over-reacts to the sudden increase and produces too much. Insulin does the following in high quantities:

1. Knocks on the door of your muscle cells to offer nutrients to the cells. Insulin is like a pesky salesman and your muscle cells build up a resistance over time. If they stop opening the door you have Type II diabetes.
2. Shuts off the fat burning processes in your body

Effectively insulin tries to ram energy into your muscle cells. However, if your muscles don't need it, or are resistant, the energy has to go somewhere. With fat burning turned off the energy is converted to fat for storage. Rather than feeding your muscles you just increased your fat content and, because too much insulin was produced, your blood sugar crashes and you feel hungry again.

Slow digesting carbs take much longer to break down and give a steady release of energy throughout the day. There is no insulin over-reaction and when the energy arrives at the muscle cells, the door is open because there isn't the powerful insulin knock and because you'll have depleted muscular energy reserves with general movement throughout the day. Without the excess insuln, your fat burning processes are still in tact so if you are on a calorie deficit your body will continue to raid its stores for extra energy as opposed to sending a signal (signal is derived from low blood sugar which you won't have if your insulin is under control) to be ravenously hungry.

The proof is in the pudding, I don't touch fast sugars and at just 1800 calories a day I am never hungry and often have to force myself to eat. I'm actually a little worried about how I will cope switching to a clean bulking diet in a few months time. I'll probably need 3000 clean cals and that will be super difficult to physically consume. I guess that's where natural peanut butter comes in

I know I probably come across like that guy that quite smoking yesterday....but if I could grab every struggling fatty in the world and give them just two rules it would be this:

1. Eat 0.8-1g of protein for each lb of lean mass every day
2. Switch all fast carbs for slow carbs

Your body will take care of everything from there*

* and you'll seldom be hungry and won't crave sugary or bad foods anything like as much as you do now.
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Old 16 March 2014, 01:33 PM
  #34  
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Another interesting thing that many people have back to front is the timing of when to eat fast acting carbs. You'll often see people eating something sugary or a banana before a workout in order to fuel their work out.

While this makes sense if they haven't eaten in a long time and suspect their glycogen stores are depleted, this will seldom be the case. All that happens is you get a big insulin response and your muscles are relatively full and resistant to taking more energy.

The best time to eat fast acting sugar is immediately after a workout. This is when your muscles are depleted of energy and will open the door with arms wide open to insulin and the glycogen.
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Old 16 March 2014, 03:13 PM
  #35  
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Spot on Saxo boy
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Old 17 March 2014, 01:13 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Rob Day View Post
Hey all,

Yes it's that same old topic,but now it's Spring I thought I'd kick this off as I need some advise.

My life style has been poor of late, no exercise and food intake pretty poor simply due to being manic at work and with life in general. I've been known to be working a 17 hour day which has meant eating poor simply due to a lack of preparations will power, but that's all calmed down now, so I want to get in shape for this summer.

I need some advise from those with experience please.


I have a newish bike on order, which I'll use to commute to work 3 miles away.

I have around 1 hour free each day of free time to go to a Gym.

There isn't a lot I won't eat in terms of salad, fruit, fish etc if this ends up in my diet a lot. Oh and I like fresh coffee, in fact I have a percolator in my office, is this bad?


I realise that the above pretty much says cycle to work and eat salad with Tuna or Salmon, but I actually want to shed weight quicker if possible, and I don't know of any "tricks to doing it".

It's also worth pointing out I lost 2 Stone a few years ago through the Atkins diet, but I made me feel quite unhealthy with too much grease

For those of you I've not met, I'm mid 30's and around 5'11". Currently weighing around 14-15 Stone. Ideally I want to shed my gut, and get some definition in general. I'm at that size where I feel uncomfortable about myself

Cheers Rob
H Rob,

First of all: forget diets. As you've found out; if you do loose weight on them, it usually piles back on. Forget complicated workout routines and all that (they tend to result in paralysis by analysis for beginners). The kind of benefits you're after can be had by some very simply alterations to your lifestyle, which you seem to be planning on making!

1) Cut right back on sugar (sorry - this one hurts) It's amazing how much you can get though if you have tea with sugar regularly, drink fizzy drinks, have pudding regularly after dinner etc ....

2) Aim to get some form of exercise for 45min-1 hour a day. Doesn't really matter what it is: walk to work/the station rather than drive, go jogging if that's your thing, swim, walk the dog, play football. Just get out and do something!!

3) Eat 3 times a day at regular times, aim for foods that are high in protein as these tend to make you fill fuller. If you can't be arsed to make them yourself M&S do a high protein, low fat selection of meals. Obvious really, but avoid junk food and highly processed stuff. Do not starve yourself, you need calories - they are not your enemy if you're getting the right amount and being active!!

4) Cut back on the booze (sorry) and get around 8 hours sleep a night

5) Join a gym (if money permits) and aim to go three times a week. If you're looking to burn fat hit the cross trainers and anything that works the core. Don't get too obsessed with weights. If you do use them: low weight, high reps.

There you go, nothing too painful there! Do that for 6 weeks. See how you get on (document your progress weekly with photos, measurements and any performance indicators from exercises you're doing for motivation purposes). If it works, keep doing it!

Consistency is the key. You don't have to do anything complicated to get results; you just need to do something and do it regularly!

Good luck

NS04

Last edited by New_scooby_04; 17 March 2014 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 17 March 2014, 01:51 PM
  #37  
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Leo-RS - this is just the post I was looking for.

Being a desk jockey 80% of the day means I'm not getting the exercise I need. I try not to be stupid with my food intake and limit myself as much as possible.

I'll have Alpen in the morning - is there a big difference between no added sugar?
Small pasta bowl from Morrisons at lunch.
I'll usually make something in the evening. Rice and pasta based most likely.

I drink alot of coffee with sugar during the day - would that affect my ups and downs? I do have a big problem with going downhill really quickly and I crave sugary stuff.

I'm a light smoker so that needs to go as I've been jogging a few times last week and it messes me up bad. I try to walk/jog/run but I can't keep running or jogging for very long.

I need to find things I can do at home - this is a big issue. I'm on my own with a 12 year old and 15 month old so can't leave them to go to gym. I'm watching some cheap weights and a bench on ebay and a cheap treadmill -I can stick these in the garage.

I'm not particularly overweight but I'm 36, probably under 11 stone and quite slim - the weight is in the wrong place and I want a slimmer middle and broader top.

Reason for all this apart from not being happy with my physical appearance is that I'm considering getting back out there on the market (had a **** 15 months) and wouldn't mind improving the way I look.
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Old 17 March 2014, 03:06 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by EddScott View Post
Leo-RS - this is just the post I was looking for.

Being a desk jockey 80% of the day means I'm not getting the exercise I need. I try not to be stupid with my food intake and limit myself as much as possible.

I'll have Alpen in the morning - is there a big difference between no added sugar?
Small pasta bowl from Morrisons at lunch.
I'll usually make something in the evening. Rice and pasta based most likely.

I drink alot of coffee with sugar during the day - would that affect my ups and downs? I do have a big problem with going downhill really quickly and I crave sugary stuff.

I'm a light smoker so that needs to go as I've been jogging a few times last week and it messes me up bad. I try to walk/jog/run but I can't keep running or jogging for very long.

I need to find things I can do at home - this is a big issue. I'm on my own with a 12 year old and 15 month old so can't leave them to go to gym. I'm watching some cheap weights and a bench on ebay and a cheap treadmill -I can stick these in the garage.

I'm not particularly overweight but I'm 36, probably under 11 stone and quite slim - the weight is in the wrong place and I want a slimmer middle and broader top.

Reason for all this apart from not being happy with my physical appearance is that I'm considering getting back out there on the market (had a **** 15 months) and wouldn't mind improving the way I look.
Edd - Sugar is a physique killer, plain and simple! It sucks for those of us with a sweet tooth!
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Old 17 March 2014, 03:38 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by EddScott View Post
Leo-RS - this is just the post I was looking for.

Being a desk jockey 80% of the day means I'm not getting the exercise I need. I try not to be stupid with my food intake and limit myself as much as possible.

I'll have Alpen in the morning - is there a big difference between no added sugar?
Small pasta bowl from Morrisons at lunch.
I'll usually make something in the evening. Rice and pasta based most likely.

I drink alot of coffee with sugar during the day - would that affect my ups and downs? I do have a big problem with going downhill really quickly and I crave sugary stuff.

I'm a light smoker so that needs to go as I've been jogging a few times last week and it messes me up bad. I try to walk/jog/run but I can't keep running or jogging for very long.

I need to find things I can do at home - this is a big issue. I'm on my own with a 12 year old and 15 month old so can't leave them to go to gym. I'm watching some cheap weights and a bench on ebay and a cheap treadmill -I can stick these in the garage.

I'm not particularly overweight but I'm 36, probably under 11 stone and quite slim - the weight is in the wrong place and I want a slimmer middle and broader top.

Reason for all this apart from not being happy with my physical appearance is that I'm considering getting back out there on the market (had a **** 15 months) and wouldn't mind improving the way I look.
Looks like you're getting quite a lot of carbs there, breakfast, lunch and evening meal, snacks inbetween too? I guess that your Protein/Carb/Fat balance will be around 20/60/20 (P/C/F) and hence the reason you crave sugar, have no energy, feel tired etc.

Download My fitness pal and use it for one day to get an idea on your macro stats, yes, it can be a little tedious but for one day only, measure everything you eat, and log it. This will give you an idea of your current Protein/Carb/Fat balance and what needs to change. For you to get out of this feeling tired, having no energy, craving sugar routine, you need to be hitting around a 40/30/30 split. (Or something around that, 35/35/30 or even 30/40/30 P/C/F)

For example, your Alpen in the morning, look at the macro stats here...

http://www.fatsecret.co.uk/calories-...esli/1-serving

There is 29g carb to which 7.3g of which sugars, this is before we add the carbs of the milk, now for the cereal only, this isn't too bad on the grand scheme of things, it will still cause a blood sugar spike (29+g in one sitting will do) but it is probably classed as a medium GI food so should keep you feeling fuller than if you were to have 4 slices of white toast for example.

Macros are....

12% is protein
72% is carbohydrate
16% is fat

Add in the milk (which is a good source of protein) and assume that you are going by the portion size of 45g with 150ml of milk (I doubt you will be, most of us will pour 250ml of milk and have a bowl fuller than we should) Combined, they add to the following stats... (forget the goal column, I don't know how to change it within the app)




So yes, you are going to need that sugar fix pretty quick and you'll probably reach for a sugary snack soon enough. You reach for that cup of coffee with sugar to keep you going, then you need another and another and another, yes, this will be the reason for your ups and downs, sugar spiking your blood sugar, insulin kicks in, brings you crashing down, you feel tired, another cup of coffee and more sugar, lifts you again and so on and on, it's a horrible horrible cycle. Then it comes to lunch and you're having a bowl of pasta, you would again need to look at the macros on that, then again at night, rice/pasta and probably some sort of carb rich sauce?

Snacks?

Do your macros for one day, put everything into the app, this will give you an idea of how far off you are but yes, that's a high carb diet which is the reason you're not feeling great. You're lucky as you're obviously naturally slim at that weight (Although the carbs will be giving you a bit of belly fat)

Give it a bash, try and up your protein to around 35-40% and you'll honestly feel a hundred times better for it. Do not do low carb Atkins style though and go the complete opposite way (You feel awful on that too) you still need to function and have energy so its a fine balance to which I swear a higher protein / lower carb diet works very well This is it in its simplistic form, obviously there are 'good' carbs and 'bad' carbs that you need to watch out for too, anything with a high % of which sugars for example, processed foods vs wholegrain type slow release but it's a foot in the right direction if you're eating the right balance.

Exercise, I think you would benefit from a weights programme rather than CV style, you don't want to lose any weight as you're already slender.

I'm not a nutritionist, I don't claim to be, these are only my views, but they are views based around a lot of research and a lot of time chatting to people at the gym that are in very good shape. I was exactly like yourself last year, diet high in carbs, it feels fecking awful. I am genuinely amazed at how good and energetic I feel these days on this type of eating plan, never tired, always alert, mood swings have subsided and I'm sleeping much better.

The main thing here is, you need to want to change, if you see it as a diet or a restriction that will make you miserable, it's never going to work, if you see it as a new way of eating then you will succeed. Do not treat it as a diet, do not restrict yourself, you'll find the sugar cravings will subside after a few days anyway but you can still have odd treats here and there. The odd kebab, pint of beer, bar of chocolate is fine, it needs to be, you need to fit these 'treats' in otherwise you will fail, you need to enjoy going to do a 45 min workout exercising whatever that may be, lifting weights, cycling, running, walking etc, it needs a lifestyle change rather than a quick fix and going back to old ways. You will be surprised how easy it is to adopt the lifestyle change though when start feeling better about yourself

Last edited by LEO-RS; 17 March 2014 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 17 March 2014, 04:31 PM
  #40  
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Key is to do the exercise you enjoy. Sounds like a lot of people on here are gym bunnies - works fine for them, but I hate pumping iron. I like running: it's my me-time, and I like the outdoors. I like that I can do it the moment I close the front door - no wasted time traveling to a gym. But I know some people hate it. It's not necessarily true that it knackers your knees - correct trainers (get your gait analysed at a running shoe shop or podiatrist). But if you don't like running, do whatever else you won't mind spending 4 or 5 hours a week doing.
5 years ago I was 37 and 15 stone and couldn't run 2 miles. I'm now 12 stone and aiming to run the London Marathon in a good-for-age time. I made lifestyle changes that I have sustained for 5 years - they weren't a fad. I don't calorie-count but I do watch portion sizes. I no longer eat up my kids' leftovers, regardless of how tasty they are. I think twice when I go shopping - if I buy sugary cereals and biscuits, I will eat them, so I don't buy them in the first place. I cycle to work, come rain or shine - it's about routine. If you make excuses because of the weather, there will be an excuse for other days too. Don't allow bad stuff to be in your routine - a large latte every day is a no-no - change for an Americano instead. Have a bottle of water with you for when you're hungry/thirsty/bored - you'll be surprised how it fills a gap. And keep a ready supply of chewing gum to hand - it will keep the snacking temptation at bay. Find a partner to train with - you're less likely to let someone else down than yourself, although you need someone who is committed and won't just suggest going down the pub instead! Finally, keep an exercise diary - it's easy to spot when you're getting lax, and it's nice to track how you're progressing.
A lot of Saxo Boy's stuff makes sense, but I am not going to weigh out how much meat I'm eating for the next 50 years. And the insulin thing is spot on.
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Old 17 March 2014, 04:32 PM
  #41  
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WAY too much emphasis on diet - as long as you're not stuffing your face with cr4p all day, concentrate on EXERCISE not diet.

It applies to all activities. Who are the fittest people around (that aren't actual professional athletes)? Probably our more elite Forces - the Marines, Paras and SAS/SBS. When I did selection for the Marines, was the food all calorie counted nonsense? No, it was normal decent food. Do you get many overweight, wheezing Marines? There's your answer.

Diets are faddy, short term and miserable and downright bad for you in many cases.
Exercise, done in the right way is satisfying, makes you feel good and improves everything - job done.
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Old 17 March 2014, 04:47 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Matteeboy View Post
WAY too much emphasis on diet - as long as you're not stuffing your face with cr4p all day, concentrate on EXERCISE not diet.

It applies to all activities. Who are the fittest people around (that aren't actual professional athletes)? Probably our more elite Forces - the Marines, Paras and SAS/SBS. When I did selection for the Marines, was the food all calorie counted nonsense? No, it was normal decent food. Do you get many overweight, wheezing Marines? There's your answer.

Diets are faddy, short term and miserable and downright bad for you in many cases.
Exercise, done in the right way is satisfying, makes you feel good and improves everything - job done.
I wouldn't go so far as to call the calorie counting nonsense, but I would say that for most people it's redundant if they:

1) Don't eat junk and lots of sugar
2) Exercise regularly
3) Try and stick to a regular pattern of eating and rest

The problem is that everyone has a plan or a diet or a workout routine, some of which is very dubious scientifically, some of which would theoretically work but be v difficult to integrate within one's lifestyle.

What tends to happen is that an individual ends up so confused by all the competing approaches they end up do nothing, or don't give a particular approach enough time to see results.

Ns04
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Old 17 March 2014, 04:48 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Matteeboy View Post
concentrate on EXERCISE not diet.
Well that's completely wrong as to which I'm sure many athletes will tell you, these spring to mind....





Marines/SAS/SBS are eating what they want because they are super fit athletes/soldiers, they will expend massive amounts of calories which counteracts what they will will eat and hence no weight gain, little silly comparing them against your average Joe couch potato

Last edited by LEO-RS; 17 March 2014 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 17 March 2014, 04:50 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by LEO-RS View Post
Marines/SAS/SBS are eating what they want because they are super fit athletes/soldiers, they will expend massive amounts of calories which counteracts what they will will eat and hence no weight gain, little silly comparing them against your average Joe couch potato
Presumably when they're in the barracks their diet is controlled to a certain extent i.e. what's available at the Canteen! I'm guessing their isn't a Maccy Ds on site!
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Old 17 March 2014, 04:50 PM
  #45  
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Work your *** off in the gym with weights then add a bit of cardio(burn around 300 calories) at the end and watch your diet as has been said. That's what I do anyway and it works for me.
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Old 17 March 2014, 04:53 PM
  #46  
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Plus I truly believe you can eat as much as you want IF your willing to do the work in the gym to keep you lean.
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Old 17 March 2014, 04:54 PM
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Anything I can help with Rob just drop me a message on FB
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Old 17 March 2014, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Type_R_1984 View Post
Plus I truly believe you can eat as much as you want IF your willing to do the work in the gym to keep you lean.
Correct. Calories consumed vs calories expended. You'd be very surprised what Michael Phelps was eating during his Olympics campaign yet maintaining body fat percentage in single figures. However most people neither have the time nor inclination to train several hours a day.

Last edited by Maz; 17 March 2014 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 17 March 2014, 05:24 PM
  #49  
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anavar (oxandrolone) or winstrol (stanozolol)
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Old 17 March 2014, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by smiffywhu View Post
anavar (oxandrolone) or winstrol (stanozolol)
So 1980s.
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Old 17 March 2014, 05:44 PM
  #51  
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Really not worth messing round with your hormones.

I've used many different stimulants, some are pretty good for fat burning, however, there are obviously huge health risks involved with that and lots of side effects too.
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Old 17 March 2014, 05:44 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by LEO-RS View Post
Well that's completely wrong as to which I'm sure many athletes will tell you, these spring to mind....





Marines/SAS/SBS are eating what they want because they are super fit athletes/soldiers, they will expend massive amounts of calories which counteracts what they will will eat and hence no weight gain, little silly comparing them against your average Joe couch potato
Well as a winner of a national tri, a well attended road (running) race, briefly ranked 4th in the UK middle weight kickboxing (I didn't have time to train to get better), competitive ex sponsored surfer and probably more boring boasty cr4p I've forgotten, I AM an athlete and I eat sensibly but not in the slightest bit obsessively. I just train a lot and always have done.

Same with gaining weight; I gorged on all sorts of the "right" food and shakes with little effect. Sorted my gym routine, my appetite naturally rocketed, I gained three healthy stone.

Training first, diet second, always.
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Old 17 March 2014, 06:16 PM
  #53  
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WAY too much emphasis on diet - as long as you're not stuffing your face with cr4p all day, concentrate on EXERCISE not diet.
Matty, I know you have a bit of a rep and that we've never personally butted heads..... But please, please post what you said above on literally any health/nutrition/fitness/bodybuilding forum and link us the result. 99% of people will disagree with you.

Some people can eat whatever they want and still have a great frame. If they do a higher than average amount of exercise they are likely to attribute it their physique to said exercise. The reality is, it is almost certainly 80% genetics and 20% training in such a case.

Diet is sooooo much more important than exercise for the vast majority of the population.
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Old 17 March 2014, 06:38 PM
  #54  
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Without doubt, running drops the weight off really quickly!
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Old 17 March 2014, 07:00 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Saxo Boy View Post
Matty, I know you have a bit of a rep and that we've never personally butted heads..... But please, please post what you said above on literally any health/nutrition/fitness/bodybuilding forum and link us the result. 99% of people will disagree with you.

Some people can eat whatever they want and still have a great frame. If they do a higher than average amount of exercise they are likely to attribute it their physique to said exercise. The reality is, it is almost certainly 80% genetics and 20% training in such a case.

Diet is sooooo much more important than exercise for the vast majority of the population.
Okay I agree with the absolute elite of athletes and full on bodybuilders (which I never was and never wanted to be) but for the majority of others, I still stand by what I say - I know ultra marathon runners, ironman competitors, many Paras and Marines (and experienced POC selection myself and passed), top level kickboxers, all sorts; yes none stuff their faces with pizza and chips all day but they seem to have a balanced view on diet - eat sensibly but don't calorie count or obsess.

It's energy in vs energy out; do enough "out" and you'll be fine. Simple physics.
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Old 17 March 2014, 07:11 PM
  #56  
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Hi Maz, I didn't know it was around that long ago.I also agree messing with hormones isn't always clever, but do it properly and "pct" and you'll soon learn why millions (literally) of people use it.Side effect free-almost!!I play footy twice a week, eat a normal diet, barely lift weight or break into a sweat (bar during football) and I'm "shredded" with an 8 pack!!....maybe I'm lucky....maybe it's the anavar.This guy is a busy man - cycle to work, stop junking, neck a few pills and Fanny's your Aunt.
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Old 17 March 2014, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by smiffywhu View Post
Hi Maz, I didn't know it was around that long ago.I also agree messing with hormones isn't always clever, but do it properly and "pct" and you'll soon learn why millions (literally) of people use it.Side effect free-almost!!I play footy twice a week, eat a normal diet, barely lift weight or break into a sweat (bar during football) and I'm "shredded" with an 8 pack!!....maybe I'm lucky....maybe it's the anavar.This guy is a busy man - cycle to work, stop junking, neck a few pills and Fanny's your Aunt.
Both of the aforementioned 'steds' were developed in the sixties. They're popular because they're cheap and fairly easy to get hold of.
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Old 17 March 2014, 08:10 PM
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Oral steroids are extremely bad for the liver are they not hence why most gym queens inject?

It's the unknown with anabolic steroids that scares the sh*t out of me, nasty side effects, personality changes and of course the expense to maintain. Saying that, I do not know anything much about anabolic steroids other than the scaremongering.

Mattee, you probably do fit the conditions of an athlete so you're metabolism and energy requirements are going to be far higher than your average couch potato, for guys like you, sure, as long as calories in = calories out, you'll remain steady but for inactive, diet is key. Not everyone enjoys exercise especially if they are overweight and out of shape but your points are valid to the extremely fit, all about portion control and self discipline with what you do eat. I'm pretty sure guys like you wouldn't gorge on fast food, beer, crisps and ice cream all week, more than likely porridge, pasta and a lot of meat and fish
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Old 17 March 2014, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LEO-RS View Post
Oral steroids are extremely bad for the liver are they not hence why most gym queens inject?)
Hard on the kidneys as well.
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Old 17 March 2014, 08:34 PM
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Are you saying guys (and girls)are only taking anavar due to it being easy to get hold of and cheap?Really?Not because its a miracle drug then?It's gentle on the liver (especially when taking milk thistle),read up about them,doctors prescribe it to patients.OK so maybe it's a bit silly of me to recommend taking steroids to a stranger,but, I certainly recommend reading up about them.Do it properly and safely, even if just a short one off course to shift some excess fat for a "head start".Perfect for a busy guy who asked the original question.
Good luck in achieving all your goals
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