Doing what? I bet they aren't quite earning that in ££'s, but then I don't know exactly what they do.

There's a lot of nonsense about expat wages out there.

 

No that's what 2 are on , they are not jumped up little kids both middle aged but 'have' to keep going back because they need the money?
Like I said no matter if you earn £200 a week or £2k a week......it's never enough.
The perks must add up to a few quid aswel , food/living/travel expenses.
If I had no kids I'd be away snatching as much as possible.

 

I know, I work with people like that.

It's wasting money on things like cars and holidays which is the problem, plus having ex-wives to pay for.

It does sound amusing but I don't envy the lives of some of the expat people I have met. Many are not very happy at all.

I've maintained for a while that if I owned a modest house I'd be fairly content. I don't need a new GTR on my drive.

 

There's also a lot of truth as well

Spent several years in KSA and at 30 (13 years ago) I bought where I now live for over 300k GBP cash as well as having plenty in the bank (not much left now but the house is still mortgage free and gone up nicely in value).

Not sure that I'd want to go back there now but then again I don't really need to either.

Tax free - work in the middle east and send it back to a channel islands off shore account (helped that I was born in Jersey) - that's what I did and totally legal.

Edit: Knowing when to get out was the trick and then readjusting your lifestyle to suit non-expat once you're back. There's a lot of "lifers" out there that will never make it back - sad really.

 

Somewhere without internet access would be a start.

 

What were you doing out there?

Becoming non-resident of the UK for tax purposes isn't that straight fwd. You need to demonstrate no 'ties and commitments'. There is no 90 or 180 day rule now. Anyway you are from Jersey so slighly different I guess?

 

James Turner Street.?

 

Officially IT Consultant specialised in Oil and Gas software.

Unofficially working directly for the KSA Royal Family

Being born in Jersey helped the paperwork for opening an account on the island but I was still classed as a fiscal UK resident before I left for KSA. I was single and rented my UK house out whilst over there and all monies (pay, living allowances, benefits and bonuses) were all tax free with the vast majority sent back to the offshore account. Had a great life: villas, power boats, fast cars, lots of parties, etc. etc. and earned a fortune as well. A few years over there has set me up for life but not everyone is cut out to do it and there's plenty of risks involved (especially in the unofficial job I had). You need to know the right people to even get into the Kingdom as a visa is required both to get in and out.

Stay too long and it can ruin your life (I've seen it happen to friends) as you can never adjust back into normal life outside of the ex-pat community

Obtaining a tax free status etc may have changed nowadays as it was a good 20 years ago when I first went.

 

Ok that sounds unlike most jobs I know of in the oil field. Sounds very 'niche' if you like.

I know about KSA. I worked there for 2.5 years running down-hole instrumentation. Even though I had an Iqama I was still a UK resident for tax purposes unfortunately. I don't see how you could own UK property and not pay UK tax on foreign earnings, but then like I said the rules have been tweaked a bit now and you are talking over a decade ago.

Unfortunately I don't think I earned anything like what you did as I only saved 60 k over those 2.5 years.

 

Yes sounds like the rules have been changed since my time there - way too much tax free money floating around for Europe to ignore I guess

My UK house was rented out to NOKIA as well so empty or not I was guaranteed a rental income - lovely.

Job wise - certain jobs titles hide others. There's an enormous amount of official/unofficial job titles floating around at very high pay levels - it's all down to who you know and what service you can provide them with and the pay reflects this (nuff said)

 

You "only" saved 60k over 2 years? How clever of you, little rich kid.

 

In comparison to LTV I meant, who might be some sort of industrial espionage operative or something earning lots more than me.

 

He has always been a rich kid.

Anyone who has a cash to buy their house outright without any mortgage is rich. I am sure he has said that he has enough savings to buy a mid-terraced modest house 'just like that' (finger-thumb click) , which is cool. I don't think there're many on SN without mortgages unless they're quite ancient, widowed or living in rented properties/with their parents. Off shore oil industry guys can afford to do that with their savings, I know. Pretty privileged position to be in.

 

Not necessarily Swati, have you seen some of the house prices up the valleys. .

 

Still pretty bullish obviously then Ding?

Good article for you here. Yields in prime central London are now lower than 10 year UK bonds.

I'm still fairly contrary regarding property. Too much ramping going on for me and naked state intervention (H2B), plus more open intervention of QE and ultra-low interest rates.

The optimism now and ramping reminds me of the early to mid 00's.

I'm not sure what will happen, but having said that if I had a big pile of cash I'd probably buy.

 

LVC .... Loire Valley Cruise (a little project of mine, organising motorbike tours around the Le Mans and Loire Valley). Already organise a number of charity events.

I'd say that 60k is pretty good for a 2.5 year stint especially if you were taxed on your income

Don't think that the KSA Royal family would need much industrial espionage as they own all the oil rights anyway

+1

I've never really been into stocks/shares and savings - put most of my funds into houses with a sizeable amount in "normal savings accounts" so I could get to it if I needed. I've been mortgage free with a big family home on around 17acres since I was 30 (bought in 2001). The value has gone up (not as much as the UK prices) and down (again not as much as the UK) but you still have to live somewhere, so what it's worth isn't really important to me as it gives me the space and lifestyle that I want. Best thing I ever did was having no mortgage, not having £600-£2000 a month going out (like some of my pals) makes such a difference to your quality of life. You can choose when and how you work without the need to pay the bank each month.

Right place at the right time I guess - not sure that it's so doable nowadays though.

 

I get what you're saying, Chip. Some properties are dirt cheap, and some people, depending how old they are; how long they've worked for and saved; what their spouses do; how much they inherited and what they themselves earn, may be able to buy such cheap places without having to bother their bank for a mortgage. But Tony won't live in some ramshackle up the valley. He can afford to live somewhere better than that without having to ask his bank for a mortgage, which makes him richer than many others.

Ask people of Tony's age (mid 30's) here if they have been able to 'save' 60k over two years while living in the UK, and doing a regular wage (not above say 30-32k a year) taxable job in the UK. You'll then know what I'm saying. Tony is certainly much more privileged than many others here. That's because of his job and his ability to save.

 

Bullish in the short term yes, and generally 'believe' in property as an investment class over the long term. However the market in London (not prime) is really bubbly at the moment, caution is needed. I'm going forward very carefully.


As for PCL property, it is another world, fueled to a great extent by foreign money. I cannot really afford to 'play' in these areas, the prices seem insane. I'll be very interested to see how PCL plays out, and what becomes of the new foreign money that has poured in. I'm not convinced it has been very wisely invested.

I see Chinese/Indian/Russian money buying 1 bed flats in Aldgate East (for example) for £900k.

 

900k for a 1 bed flat someones going to take a bath on that big time when the slush money runs out. I think your right not to get involved in that sort of thing, two reasons 1st being the one above and 2nd if things do go up you'll be very well placed to make a serious killing having bought several wisely as opposed to just the one. The way I always looked at it is they're plenty of people who can get 2/300k together but not so many who can get 500k+ hence why I spread mine around as opposed to buying one 500k property and taking on a big mortgage I went for owning one outright and the other with a small mortgage.

Not exactly on a par with a player in central london but I think the principal holds true anywhere, better to spread the risk than put all my eggs in one basket, also gives the option of getting rid of either should the poo hit the fan, then ending up with either a big pot of cash and a small mortgage or no mortgage and a smaller pot of cash, win win.

 

Just to add; I think TDW is really missing out here by not using his pot of cash in the buy to let market, 5yrs juggling 3/4 properties could see him with his dream house for cash like I did and still got a nice detached one in reserve too.

 

Yes, exactly. Also the yield on these PCL properties are now negative, ie it costs more to borrow/maintain than you will get in rent. So the play is all capital growth, risky imho.

However if I was Russian/Chinese/Indian with dirty cash to hide perhaps it makes some kind of sense.

 

TDW, it sounds like you've done well for yourself, property or not, in that you have accumulated enough wealth in your 30s to buy some properties outright that would take many until they retired to pay off. In this position, is relatively extreme tax avoidance and the compromises that go with it likely to increase your fulfilment?

 

I'm from a very expensive area (outside of SE standards) so I'm a little light on what I need to buy a 'reasonable' house here, and I don't mean a 4 bed detached but a decent terrace.

In answer to your question...probably not. But it might be a hair shirt I have to wear for 2 or 3 years. If I can feel positive about it then I might do it, i.e., move to Spain or if very lazy...Dubai. 2 or 3 years in Spain could be viewed as opportunity to explore another country and culture. Dubai would be the safest financially because no income tax anyway or chance of an asset tax.

 

Most people cannot afford to buy at the "top of the ladder" I.e in their preferred location etc as the first purchase

There is often a period of working up the ladder

Aspiration is one thing, impatience and arrogance is another

Tax heavens just seem a lazy selfish cop out IMO

 

I bloody well wish we could, some can though depending on their positions, but the majority can't.

I can make the same money working onshore as I can offshore TBH, the only benefit of working away is the time off.

 

A 2 bed terrace here is nothing like 'top of the ladder'. Back in the 80's my friends parents were buying much bigger and nicer houses. My age/peer group has been forced to pay more for less since.

 

So if you had had the opportunity to jump up the ladder with a large cash sum to buy a family home earlier on in life you would have not taken it

Interesting reading this post, it certainly seems that the hayday for offshore savings and cashing in on the tax free jobs has now past.

A lot of the people I work with/for nowadays are billionaires and none of them are UK fiscal resident and most are from outside of Europe for this very reason. They spend a lot of their life moving from one location to another to keep their fiscal status were it needs to be, but as the European "property wealth taxes" are creeping in a lot are selling off their luxury 5th and 6th homes - not moaning as it keeps me in pennies nicely.

 

yes, but there is a difference between an "opportunity" which presents itself in ones life -- oooh a bit like say, an "opportunity"

and trying to engineer my life around one.

 

yes - agreed, and represents the inevitable squeeze on the middle classes

i could not afford to buy the house I grew up in, and to a certain extent have been priced out of my birthplace (Central London)

 

But why is taking advantage of or engineering an opportunity so wrong - I put myself in the right place at the right time with the right contacts to take advantage of an "opportunity" that I could say I engineered in order to leap up the ladder and buy a big place cash when I was 30. Most of my friends back in the UK have worked their way up the ladder with well paid jobs but very few of them have a house the size of mine (or comparable in the SE UK) and none of them have it with no mortgage.

I don't see how anyone could class what I did as "a lazy selfish cop out" - there's nothing lazy or selfish with putting your belongings into a bag and jumping on a plane for a stay of an undefined length of time, in undefined conditions within a country that is not widely known for being welcoming to "infidels". I can't go into what I unofficially did over there but there was also an enormous amount of personal risk involved - I'd say it takes ***** and a will to succeed despite all odds and the rewards are directly linked to this.

I understand that working hard to pay for one's items is a great way to learn their value but trust me the time I spent working abroad was a true life lesson and those that have not done it will never understand.

There's a thick line between ex-pats and those that aren't and unless you've been one it's virtually impossible to understand what our lives were like. So by all means work hard all your life to slowly climb the property ladder with the heavy burden of a mortgage but please don't belittle those that decide to take the gamble of a short-cut and succeed.