The truth about immigration
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I have looked at their other policies and whilst some are not really my politics they are not any crazier or more ludicrous than anything Miliband is currently proposing (quite the opposite in fact) and they certainly aren't trying to buy the electorate in quite so cynical manner as Cameron!
Here are the key policies from their website:
Here are the key policies from their website:
- EU controls Immigration, Business and Employment, Financial Services, Fishing, Farming, Law and Order, Energy and Trade. It seeks now to control Foreign Affairs and Tax.
- The British people must decide through an immediate referendum if we stay in the EU or come out and claw back independent power over our national life. We do not have to be ruled by this regime to work with our European neighbours who depend on us for their markets.
- Give the public power to require binding local and national referenda on major issues.
- Only by leaving the EU can we fully regain control of our borders and control migration.
- Those wishing to permanently settle in the UK must financially support themselves and their dependents for 5 years. This means private health insurance (except emergency medical care), private education and housing. You pay into the pot before you take out of the pot.
- Bring in a points based visa system and time limited work permits.
- Tourists and new migrants to the UK must provide proof of private health insurance cover as a condition of entry to the UK.
- Outside the EU we will save £53m a day and we can give British workers the first crack at the 800,000 jobs we currently advertise to EU workers.
- No tax on the minimum wage.
- Local councils are to enroll unemployed welfare claimants onto community schemes or retraining workfare programmes.
- Scrap all green taxes, wind turbine subsidies and adopt nuclear power to free us from dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas.
- Develop shale gas and place the tax revenues into a British Sovereign Wealth Fund. Norway’s oil Sovereign Wealth Fund is now worth $750bn.
- Make real and rigorous cuts in foreign aid and replace with free trade.
- No cuts to front line policing
- Make sentences mean what they say – life must mean life.
- No votes for prisoners.
- Leave the EU to prevent foreign criminals entering the UK.
- Scrap the European Arrest Warrant, which can see British citizens sent to foreign jails on scant evidence.
- Remove the UK from the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights.
- Ensure GPs surgeries open in the evening for full-time workers, where there is demand.
- Set up locally elected County Health Boards to inspect hospitals, so that we never have another Stafford Hospital crisis.
- Social Housing to be prioritised for people whose parents and grandparents were born locally.
- Allow the creation of new grammar schools.
- Those wishing to come to the UK must show proof of private health Insurance as a condition of entry to the UK.
- Ensure that benefits are only available for those who have lived here for over 5 years. Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy.
- Political correctness is stifling free speech.
- The law of the land must be single and apply to us all. We oppose any other system of law.
- Teach children positive messages and pride in their country. We want to unite through better Integration.
I think Martin is missing my point. I am not saying that he or I should support all those policies (although some are spot on like the welfare state being a safety net not a lifetstyle choice), but just that they are a vable party with policies they believe in and that are going to apepal to at least some of the population.
What you just said about them being the Tory Party policies of 50 years ago is almost exactly what I was going to write in my post, but decided to see if anyone said the same... hey presto!
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If you have no profit, you have no business. If you have no business you have no jobs. Therefore profit = jobs. The most basic lesson that even the most rabid leftie should understand
Anyway back to immigration. As has been pointed out, the relatively undiscussed part of this is, we do have native born people who could do these jobs, but due to the structure of the benefits system are incentivised not to do anything. Welfare reform must go hand in hand with other changes to ensure they work as planned
Anyway back to immigration. As has been pointed out, the relatively undiscussed part of this is, we do have native born people who could do these jobs, but due to the structure of the benefits system are incentivised not to do anything. Welfare reform must go hand in hand with other changes to ensure they work as planned
I'll bet they wouldn't had they know it would turn into a corrupt political experiment providing a gravy train for those at its core, damaging the economies of some of its member states and removing the power of governments to run their own countires as they see fit!
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Interestingly the UKIP wish list reads more like the Tory manifesto of Hague in 02, that didn't end too well for them
Last edited by Martin2005; Jan 9, 2014 at 03:48 PM.
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Ted Heath went to his grave an arch Europhile
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Yep, a fan of capitalism, so correct there, but totally wrong to say immigration is symptomatic of a capitalist society. Australia and Canada are non-EU "capitalist societies", they have strong immigration policies and none of the sort, or scale, of the immigration problems we have. To conflate the two ideas of immigration and capitalism is demonstrably incorrect. They are separate.
As to all you other UKIP naysayers on here claiming "vote UKIP, get Labour", you are also out of date and again plain wrong. You are assuming that all UKIP voters are ex-Tories, but as Alan Bown's polling has shown, (as do the by election results in the North), only approx 30% of UKIP support comes from ex Tories. Lets see what happens in the local elections in May shall we? (But of course the excuse then will be "its only locals, people vote differently to general elections"!). I predict they will do better than the 25% of the vote they got in 2013. There is a huge under estimation of what is going on, with media and self serving politicians playing catch up to reality. It really quite fun to watch, if somewhat tiresome to hear the old cliches. Times are changing, bring it on!
As to all you other UKIP naysayers on here claiming "vote UKIP, get Labour", you are also out of date and again plain wrong. You are assuming that all UKIP voters are ex-Tories, but as Alan Bown's polling has shown, (as do the by election results in the North), only approx 30% of UKIP support comes from ex Tories. Lets see what happens in the local elections in May shall we? (But of course the excuse then will be "its only locals, people vote differently to general elections"!). I predict they will do better than the 25% of the vote they got in 2013. There is a huge under estimation of what is going on, with media and self serving politicians playing catch up to reality. It really quite fun to watch, if somewhat tiresome to hear the old cliches. Times are changing, bring it on!
The true half is that yes indeed UKIP are attracting lot's of disaffected Labour voters. The problem here is they tend to be from areas most heavily impacted by the worst effects of immigration, these are of course mainly very safe Labour seats and therefore will remain very safe Labour seats.
The problem for the Tories is that UKIP is polling strongly in their marginals, and therefore a solid UKIP vote will make a material difference to them in those seats.
'Vote UKIP get Labour' is a completely valid argument and one UKIP are really worried about
It's undeniable that both Labour and the Tories have moved so far to the centre they are almost indistinguishable on some policies and on others the only differences are created through a desire to be different. Blair was more of a Tory than a socialist and Miliband is much the same. Cameron is Blair Mk 2!
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[quote=f1_fan;11317917]I think what was meant, and I may be wrong, is that Tory party of 50 years ago would have a manifesto like the UKIP's if quote]
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
The Tories of 50 years ago were far from a right wing party I think 'small c Conservatives' is the best description of them. They really only moved to the right in the early 80s
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
The Tories of 50 years ago were far from a right wing party I think 'small c Conservatives' is the best description of them. They really only moved to the right in the early 80s
You don't debate, you just tell the rest of us WE are wrong.
I've asked in a number of threads for what YOU would do, but had no responses as yet.
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)As for what I would do..
It's a really tough one, we need immigration at reasonably high level to sustain major parts of our private and public sectors.
I do know that this has become a big problem in some parts of the country though.
The best way forward is for Cameron to get off his **** and start doing what he said he'd do and get some treaty amendments. The UK is not alone in this Spain, France and German have huge migrant populations and the stresses and strains are showing there too. So there ust be an appetite for change building.
What would you do?
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Just watched Question Time, and when a journalist repeated the usual immigration is wonderful and talking about it is racist, the whole audience clapped. Yet we know that 77% of the population want it reduced. Are the QT audience not representative I wonder? 
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Some lefty doo gooders probably clapped and the poor buggers sat next to them probably felt they had to as well before they were singled out as being racist.
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I bet privately most people would admit that its got out of hand - but fear being branded 'racist scum' if found out in public.
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I have looked at their other policies and whilst some are not really my politics they are not any crazier or more ludicrous than anything Miliband is currently proposing (quite the opposite in fact) and they certainly aren't trying to buy the electorate in quite so cynical manner as Cameron!
Here are the key policies from their website:
**blah blah blah, Europe is bad, immigration is bad. blah blah blah **(paraphrased to save space)
Outside of a couple of them (that are in my opinion not economically viable) there doesn't seem to be anything too OTT in there!
Here are the key policies from their website:
**blah blah blah, Europe is bad, immigration is bad. blah blah blah **(paraphrased to save space)
Outside of a couple of them (that are in my opinion not economically viable) there doesn't seem to be anything too OTT in there!
Oh and I have to say I did like the bit about increasing the use of nuclear power.
Was that lot a direct copy from the UKIP website or did you reword it? 'Cus it seemed to repeat the same basic points over and over again. Either way it does hint at some of the reasons why the EU hasn't really worked as was hoped.
Oh and I have to say I did like the bit about increasing the use of nuclear power.
Oh and I have to say I did like the bit about increasing the use of nuclear power.
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If you have no profit, you have no business. If you have no business you have no jobs. Therefore profit = jobs. The most basic lesson that even the most rabid leftie should understand
Anyway back to immigration. As has been pointed out, the relatively undiscussed part of this is, we do have native born people who could do these jobs, but due to the structure of the benefits system are incentivised not to do anything. Welfare reform must go hand in hand with other changes to ensure they work as planned
Anyway back to immigration. As has been pointed out, the relatively undiscussed part of this is, we do have native born people who could do these jobs, but due to the structure of the benefits system are incentivised not to do anything. Welfare reform must go hand in hand with other changes to ensure they work as planned
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Freedom has been, and can be, understood in many ways. There is a great deal of compulsion in Capitalism, the Capitalist HAS to maintain the rate of profit or go under, the labourer - deprived of a subsistence existence - HAS to sell his/her labour for cash in the labour market. You might call it being forced to be free in a world the individual was never free to make but compelled to accept. Socialists always believed that certain freedoms could only be won through collective action.
