The truth about immigration
Well I think I pretty much nailed it. No mention of "rubbing the rights noses in diversity" I see, no film clips of people in Boston, Leicester, Luton or Bradford, no talk of muslim vigilante patrols, just a whole load of talking heads saying they got it wrong but its for the good of the country. Pretty much the first immigrant they talked to said how he liked getting the benefits, but no discussion on the numbers of immigrants out of work or claiming benefits. Same old BBC
The sooner UKIP is elected the better
The sooner UKIP is elected the better
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I don't blame anything on maggie, she was VERY good for me.
I think your mis-understanding my point, I actually think the YTS was a good thing, I only did the first one while waiting to start college, after the first year at college I decided that I didn't like the course I was on or the direction it would take me in employment wise, but because YTS existed I was able to get a job which was hands on AND still go to college once a week to further my studies as well as being able use my credits from the first year of studying to complete my diploma, which is something that would have been virtually impossible had the YTS not existed.
My other point being I doubt very many in this day and age would take the opportunity for such a small increase in pay, most of my extra tenner was taken up in lunch money and I had to walk almost 2 miles to work as there was no direct bus route, can you see some burberry wearing tennants drinking chav doing that today.
I think your mis-understanding my point, I actually think the YTS was a good thing, I only did the first one while waiting to start college, after the first year at college I decided that I didn't like the course I was on or the direction it would take me in employment wise, but because YTS existed I was able to get a job which was hands on AND still go to college once a week to further my studies as well as being able use my credits from the first year of studying to complete my diploma, which is something that would have been virtually impossible had the YTS not existed.
My other point being I doubt very many in this day and age would take the opportunity for such a small increase in pay, most of my extra tenner was taken up in lunch money and I had to walk almost 2 miles to work as there was no direct bus route, can you see some burberry wearing tennants drinking chav doing that today.
All i know is before the YTS lots of people i know did "proper" apprenticeships. Every single one finished them, and now have fantastic jobs. After the YTS came the bit of this and that training culture.
The big let down, for me and mine, was Lying Labour's idea of apprenticeships, and their insistence that over 50% of the population should go to university.
THAT little lot led to a whole generation of people with Mickey Mouse degrees, who would NOT do any manual work at all.
Lying Labour then apparently funded 80,000 places for people to tyrain as plumbers, 45,000 as brickies, 0,000 as plasterers etc etc.
but the funding was only for one year, and the actual training relied on the yp getting a job with a plumber/bricky/plasterer to finish the training.
Trouble was, there weren't enough tradesmen out there who could afford an apprentice, let alone who wanted one. So we ended up with a whole generation trained on one year this, one year that etc.
And NOW we have people who complain about lack of a skilled workforce.
Sorry, but a skilled workforce doesn't come cheap.....
THAT little lot led to a whole generation of people with Mickey Mouse degrees, who would NOT do any manual work at all.
Lying Labour then apparently funded 80,000 places for people to tyrain as plumbers, 45,000 as brickies, 0,000 as plasterers etc etc.
but the funding was only for one year, and the actual training relied on the yp getting a job with a plumber/bricky/plasterer to finish the training.
Trouble was, there weren't enough tradesmen out there who could afford an apprentice, let alone who wanted one. So we ended up with a whole generation trained on one year this, one year that etc.
And NOW we have people who complain about lack of a skilled workforce.
Sorry, but a skilled workforce doesn't come cheap.....
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I'm not sure what amuses me more, the fact people think UKIP in power is a good idea or the fact people think UKIP will be any different to the other main parties (i.e. changing there tone once elected etc).
Oh and Alcazar, could you please stop with the 'Lying Labour' bit? It smacks of something you'd read in the Sun and is by all accounts a bit tragic. Refering to them as 'Labour' or 'the Labour party' will suffice.
Oh and Alcazar, could you please stop with the 'Lying Labour' bit? It smacks of something you'd read in the Sun and is by all accounts a bit tragic. Refering to them as 'Labour' or 'the Labour party' will suffice.
Last edited by neil-h; Jan 8, 2014 at 12:21 PM.
But I WON'T be smiling when they take Tory votes and put Milipede in power.....
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UKIP wont win, they are a distraction.
Back on topic. We need to decide in the medium term, do we train our workers, or keep importing them. If we train our own, fine do that and then use immigration for the crap jobs no-one wants to do. If not, what do we do with a large number of unskilled workers. Cut their benefits to an affordable level, and let them rot?
Make a decision.
Back on topic. We need to decide in the medium term, do we train our workers, or keep importing them. If we train our own, fine do that and then use immigration for the crap jobs no-one wants to do. If not, what do we do with a large number of unskilled workers. Cut their benefits to an affordable level, and let them rot?
Make a decision.
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As to all you other UKIP naysayers on here claiming "vote UKIP, get Labour", you are also out of date and again plain wrong. You are assuming that all UKIP voters are ex-Tories, but as Alan Bown's polling has shown, (as do the by election results in the North), only approx 30% of UKIP support comes from ex Tories. Lets see what happens in the local elections in May shall we? (But of course the excuse then will be "its only locals, people vote differently to general elections"!). I predict they will do better than the 25% of the vote they got in 2013. There is a huge under estimation of what is going on, with media and self serving politicians playing catch up to reality. It really quite fun to watch, if somewhat tiresome to hear the old cliches. Times are changing, bring it on!
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Yep, a fan of capitalism, so correct there, but totally wrong to say immigration is symptomatic of a capitalist society. Australia and Canada are non-EU "capitalist societies", they have strong immigration policies and none of the sort, or scale, of the immigration problems we have. To conflate the two ideas of immigration and capitalism is demonstrably incorrect. They are separate.
As to all you other UKIP naysayers on here claiming "vote UKIP, get Labour", you are also out of date and again plain wrong. You are assuming that all UKIP voters are ex-Tories, but as Alan Bown's polling has shown, (as do the by election results in the North), only approx 30% of UKIP support comes from ex Tories. Lets see what happens in the local elections in May shall we? (But of course the excuse then will be "its only locals, people vote differently to general elections"!). I predict they will do better than the 25% of the vote they got in 2013. There is a huge under estimation of what is going on, with media and self serving politicians playing catch up to reality. It really quite fun to watch, if somewhat tiresome to hear the old cliches. Times are changing, bring it on!
As to all you other UKIP naysayers on here claiming "vote UKIP, get Labour", you are also out of date and again plain wrong. You are assuming that all UKIP voters are ex-Tories, but as Alan Bown's polling has shown, (as do the by election results in the North), only approx 30% of UKIP support comes from ex Tories. Lets see what happens in the local elections in May shall we? (But of course the excuse then will be "its only locals, people vote differently to general elections"!). I predict they will do better than the 25% of the vote they got in 2013. There is a huge under estimation of what is going on, with media and self serving politicians playing catch up to reality. It really quite fun to watch, if somewhat tiresome to hear the old cliches. Times are changing, bring it on!
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Looks like one of us is going to look stupid in June 2015 then, although interesting that you think there will be a referendum. Presumably that means you think Cameron will win the next election and hold one in 2017. And yet you seem to think that I am deluded.....
Last edited by warrenm2; Jan 8, 2014 at 01:49 PM.
So assuming you are right you are therefore implicitly advocating we should only vote for parties that have a chance of winning seats even if we don't believe in what they stand for! That is weird and illogical!
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I believe we should have a fair voting system. Then if UKIP got 20% of the vote they should get 20% representation in parliament. It's our daft FPTP system that makes for 'illogical' voting
If Cameron wins and gives us a referendum (which I still personally think won't happen) he is unlikely to take any notice of the result unless it suits his agenda of staying in the EU in much the same way he ignored the findings of the Leveson Enquiry becuase they didn't suit him or his cronies (across all parties).
OK, but regardless of the system you should still vote for the party that is standing for what you believe. If that happens to be UKIP then so be it. The fact they may not win a single seat is not relevant to the decision process!
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If Cameron wins and gives us a referendum (which I still personally think won't happen) he is unlikely to take any notice of the result unless it suits his agenda of staying in the EU in much the same way he ignored the findings of the Leveson Enquiry becuase they didn't suit him or his cronies (across all parties).
Fundamentally the Tory Party is EU-Sceptic, if he wins the election he is utterly committed to hold a referrendum and respect its outcome, if he doesn't/didn't his feet wouldn't touch the ground, he would very quickly be deposed.
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UKIP probably wont win..
Back on topic. We need to decide in the medium term, do we train our workers, or keep importing them. If we train our own, fine do that and then use immigration for the crap jobs no-one wants to do. If not, what do we do with a large number of unskilled workers. Cut their benefits to an affordable level, and let them rot?
Make a decision.
Back on topic. We need to decide in the medium term, do we train our workers, or keep importing them. If we train our own, fine do that and then use immigration for the crap jobs no-one wants to do. If not, what do we do with a large number of unskilled workers. Cut their benefits to an affordable level, and let them rot?
Make a decision.
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From: My turbo blows, air lots of it!!
UKIP probably wont win..
Back on topic. We need to decide in the medium term, do we train our workers, or keep importing them. If we train our own, fine do that and then use immigration for the crap jobs no-one wants to do. If not, what do we do with a large number of unskilled workers. Cut their benefits to an affordable level, and let them rot?
Make a decision.
Back on topic. We need to decide in the medium term, do we train our workers, or keep importing them. If we train our own, fine do that and then use immigration for the crap jobs no-one wants to do. If not, what do we do with a large number of unskilled workers. Cut their benefits to an affordable level, and let them rot?
Make a decision.
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From: Type 25. Build No.34
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From: Lincolnshire
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From: Pot Belly HQ
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No, but its silly to say we have no room.
The problem is.
1. Our lack of skilled staff.
2. People dont want to do (understandably) some of the crap jobs out there.
3. EU freedom of movement rules.
re 1. Why are we taking in another load of Spanish nurses........because we dont train enough ourselves.
re 2. Where i work, the permanent night HGV shunter is Polish. No-one else will do permanent nights for £6.30 an hour flat rate.
We need to cut the UKIP/we are full/scrounging benefits/UK jobs for uk workers rubbish and face the reality.
The problem is.
1. Our lack of skilled staff.
2. People dont want to do (understandably) some of the crap jobs out there.
3. EU freedom of movement rules.
re 1. Why are we taking in another load of Spanish nurses........because we dont train enough ourselves.
re 2. Where i work, the permanent night HGV shunter is Polish. No-one else will do permanent nights for £6.30 an hour flat rate.
We need to cut the UKIP/we are full/scrounging benefits/UK jobs for uk workers rubbish and face the reality.