The truth about immigration
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From: K
Yep, a fan of capitalism, so correct there, but totally wrong to say immigration is symptomatic of a capitalist society. Australia and Canada are non-EU "capitalist societies", they have strong immigration policies and none of the sort, or scale, of the immigration problems we have. To conflate the two ideas of immigration and capitalism is demonstrably incorrect. They are separate.
As to all you other UKIP naysayers on here claiming "vote UKIP, get Labour", you are also out of date and again plain wrong. You are assuming that all UKIP voters are ex-Tories, but as Alan Bown's polling has shown, (as do the by election results in the North), only approx 30% of UKIP support comes from ex Tories. Lets see what happens in the local elections in May shall we? (But of course the excuse then will be "its only locals, people vote differently to general elections"!). I predict they will do better than the 25% of the vote they got in 2013. There is a huge under estimation of what is going on, with media and self serving politicians playing catch up to reality. It really quite fun to watch, if somewhat tiresome to hear the old cliches. Times are changing, bring it on!
As to all you other UKIP naysayers on here claiming "vote UKIP, get Labour", you are also out of date and again plain wrong. You are assuming that all UKIP voters are ex-Tories, but as Alan Bown's polling has shown, (as do the by election results in the North), only approx 30% of UKIP support comes from ex Tories. Lets see what happens in the local elections in May shall we? (But of course the excuse then will be "its only locals, people vote differently to general elections"!). I predict they will do better than the 25% of the vote they got in 2013. There is a huge under estimation of what is going on, with media and self serving politicians playing catch up to reality. It really quite fun to watch, if somewhat tiresome to hear the old cliches. Times are changing, bring it on!
Free market Capitalism will seek the lowest cost, always
Farage even admits his policies will make us poorer - well when he says "us" he obviously doesn't mean Mr Farage
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From: My turbo blows, air lots of it!!
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From: Type 25. Build No.34
Thread Starter
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Sigh - kind of. Is a Rolls Royce the cheapest car, using the cheapest possible parts? Are their staff the lowest paid? Why is there wage inflation? There are constraints, including the potential market. To blandly state that out of context is totally wrong.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25634597
Last edited by warrenm2; Jan 8, 2014 at 11:49 PM.
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If they were highly skilled and came in via a visa system then thats fine. I agree we need highly capable people
Sigh - kind of. Is a Rolls Royce the cheapest car, using the cheapest possible parts? Are their staff the lowest paid? Why is there wage inflation? There are constraints, including the potential market. To blandly state that out of context is totally wrong.
Sigh - AGAIN. No, he said "IF THAT WERE TRUE THEN" he would accept lower wages. He preficies this with how in work benefits are not calculated. You will also remember from the program that people ARE willing to pay to have no immigration. But I reckon the figures are bogus. There is no way that having 4 million people immigrate who are all low paid when we have a million young people alone unemployed is nonsense. The issue (it was there again in the program) is that welfare payments are too good and hence they sit on their backside.... but thats another thread
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25634597
Sigh - kind of. Is a Rolls Royce the cheapest car, using the cheapest possible parts? Are their staff the lowest paid? Why is there wage inflation? There are constraints, including the potential market. To blandly state that out of context is totally wrong.
Sigh - AGAIN. No, he said "IF THAT WERE TRUE THEN" he would accept lower wages. He preficies this with how in work benefits are not calculated. You will also remember from the program that people ARE willing to pay to have no immigration. But I reckon the figures are bogus. There is no way that having 4 million people immigrate who are all low paid when we have a million young people alone unemployed is nonsense. The issue (it was there again in the program) is that welfare payments are too good and hence they sit on their backside.... but thats another thread
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25634597
I think you'll find it's the sensationalist media far more than Farage who has made immigration the main issue with much of the population!
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From: riding the crest of a wave ...
Plenty UK people emigrating to Canada for work, plenty polish doctors/accountants picking tomatoes here because it wouldn't suit a young person here since it's not a career.
Ukip banning migration isn't going to redress any balance
Ukip banning migration isn't going to redress any balance
dress it up which ever way you like, it's all about cheep labour, be it skilled/unskilled, it's been proven it's cheeper to import than train,and the unskilled will work for less than people allready here with bill's to pay and benefit's to claim, the main problem which will bite the goverment on the **** someday is where the hell are all these people going to live, go to doctor's school, etc
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From: Type 25. Build No.34
Undeniable. However UKIP made the tactical decision to exploit this issue to the full when they realised their euro-babble wasn't get much traction.
Last edited by Martin2005; Jan 9, 2014 at 01:09 AM.
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From: riding the crest of a wave ...
And another thing. Australia has same 'problems' I was on safari in Botswana last year and there were 2 youngish doctors with us. He was whinging like pom that his fellow class mate had to do a locum hundreds mile away from (Melbourne) since the place was oversubscribed with medical people due to immigration.
Had a wry smile on my face since my girlfriends daughter has now got indefinite stay in Melbourne and works as carer all hours day and night
Had a wry smile on my face since my girlfriends daughter has now got indefinite stay in Melbourne and works as carer all hours day and night
Last edited by dpb; Jan 9, 2014 at 01:25 AM.
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My wife works getting long term unemployed back into work (and actually covers the area in Birm as portrayed on Benefits Steet) and I'm sorry to say that the people she sees generally display no want to get back into employment and are quite happy turning up, wasting time, being abusive and thinking they are entitled to benefits.
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From: Shropshire
Poll in our local regional newspaper yesterday:
(I know its a meanless quesion)
Do you think Immigration should be cut or stopped?
97% YES
3% NO
Still reckon UKIP will do crap when you have such a HUGE groundswell of opinion from ordinary voters?
(I know its a meanless quesion)
Do you think Immigration should be cut or stopped?
97% YES
3% NO
Still reckon UKIP will do crap when you have such a HUGE groundswell of opinion from ordinary voters?
And another thing. Australia has same 'problems' I was on safari in Botswana last year and there were 2 youngish doctors with us. He was whinging like pom that his fellow class mate had to do a locum hundreds mile away from (Melbourne) since the place was oversubscribed with medical people due to immigration.
Had a wry smile on my face since my girlfriends daughter has now got indefinite stay in Melbourne and works as carer all hours day and night
Had a wry smile on my face since my girlfriends daughter has now got indefinite stay in Melbourne and works as carer all hours day and night
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From: K
double sigh - RR used to use expensive labour to build "handbuilt" cars and engines
they now use cheaper automation and technology
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From: Type 25. Build No.34
And stopping all immigration would be sheer lunacy!
Last edited by Martin2005; Jan 9, 2014 at 01:02 PM.
You're very flippantly dismissive of UKIP and I don't really understand why. You may not agree with their policies, but compared to the other parties they do seem to at least genuinely believe in what they stand for!
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From: The hell where youth and laughter go
It's always going to be an issue. There is core problem that there is a deficit of labour due to a proportion of the indigenous population either being unemployable or unwilling to take on a low level job.
I mean our current apprentice is Nigerian, yes hes hard work to get him to understand, but he is very hard working and has absolutely no attiutude and no chip on his shoulder, in fact he has manners better than mine LOL. This is a contrast to the other applicants that think the world owes them something.
I believe I'm not alone in this experience and it's a highly difficult problem to address: why employ a Brit, when a foreigner is better?
I mean our current apprentice is Nigerian, yes hes hard work to get him to understand, but he is very hard working and has absolutely no attiutude and no chip on his shoulder, in fact he has manners better than mine LOL. This is a contrast to the other applicants that think the world owes them something.
I believe I'm not alone in this experience and it's a highly difficult problem to address: why employ a Brit, when a foreigner is better?
Last edited by ALi-B; Jan 9, 2014 at 01:19 PM.
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It's always going to be an issue. There is core problem that there is a deficit of labour due to a proportion of the indigenous population either being unemployable or unwilling to take on a low level job.
I mean our current apprentice is Nigerian, yes hes hard work to get him to understand, but he is very hard working and has absolutely no attiutude and no chip on his shoulder, in fact he has manners better than mine LOL. This is a contrast to the other applicants that think the world owes them something.
I believe I'm not alone in this experience and it's a highly difficult problem to address: why employ a Brit, when a foreigner is better?
I mean our current apprentice is Nigerian, yes hes hard work to get him to understand, but he is very hard working and has absolutely no attiutude and no chip on his shoulder, in fact he has manners better than mine LOL. This is a contrast to the other applicants that think the world owes them something.
I believe I'm not alone in this experience and it's a highly difficult problem to address: why employ a Brit, when a foreigner is better?
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From: Type 25. Build No.34
I just stated that they are very cynically exploiting the immigration issue. If you looked at some of their other policies, you'd understand why they want to focus on immigration
Let's be honest here, how would they justify the £300K price-tag if this wasn't the case?
Last edited by markjmd; Jan 9, 2014 at 01:50 PM.
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From: The hell where youth and laughter go
True, business is tough, and it can't afford to employ people who drag their feet and shirk when they have to do something they don't like instead of just getting stuck in.
I'm not flippant at all. They are going to have huge results at the Euro and Council elections.
I just stated that they are very cynically exploiting the immigration issue. If you looked at some of their other policies, you'd understand why they want to focus on immigration
I just stated that they are very cynically exploiting the immigration issue. If you looked at some of their other policies, you'd understand why they want to focus on immigration
Here are the key policies from their website:
- EU controls Immigration, Business and Employment, Financial Services, Fishing, Farming, Law and Order, Energy and Trade. It seeks now to control Foreign Affairs and Tax.
- The British people must decide through an immediate referendum if we stay in the EU or come out and claw back independent power over our national life. We do not have to be ruled by this regime to work with our European neighbours who depend on us for their markets.
- Give the public power to require binding local and national referenda on major issues.
- Only by leaving the EU can we fully regain control of our borders and control migration.
- Those wishing to permanently settle in the UK must financially support themselves and their dependents for 5 years. This means private health insurance (except emergency medical care), private education and housing. You pay into the pot before you take out of the pot.
- Bring in a points based visa system and time limited work permits.
- Tourists and new migrants to the UK must provide proof of private health insurance cover as a condition of entry to the UK.
- Outside the EU we will save £53m a day and we can give British workers the first crack at the 800,000 jobs we currently advertise to EU workers.
- No tax on the minimum wage.
- Local councils are to enroll unemployed welfare claimants onto community schemes or retraining workfare programmes.
- Scrap all green taxes, wind turbine subsidies and adopt nuclear power to free us from dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas.
- Develop shale gas and place the tax revenues into a British Sovereign Wealth Fund. Norway’s oil Sovereign Wealth Fund is now worth $750bn.
- Make real and rigorous cuts in foreign aid and replace with free trade.
- No cuts to front line policing
- Make sentences mean what they say – life must mean life.
- No votes for prisoners.
- Leave the EU to prevent foreign criminals entering the UK.
- Scrap the European Arrest Warrant, which can see British citizens sent to foreign jails on scant evidence.
- Remove the UK from the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights.
- Ensure GPs surgeries open in the evening for full-time workers, where there is demand.
- Set up locally elected County Health Boards to inspect hospitals, so that we never have another Stafford Hospital crisis.
- Social Housing to be prioritised for people whose parents and grandparents were born locally.
- Allow the creation of new grammar schools.
- Those wishing to come to the UK must show proof of private health Insurance as a condition of entry to the UK.
- Ensure that benefits are only available for those who have lived here for over 5 years. Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy.
- Political correctness is stifling free speech.
- The law of the land must be single and apply to us all. We oppose any other system of law.
- Teach children positive messages and pride in their country. We want to unite through better Integration.
Outside of a couple of them (that are in my opinion not economically viable) there doesn't seem to be anything too OTT in there!
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From: riding the crest of a wave ...
