Prodrive P1 Lowering Springs - Rare Purchase opportunity.
06 November 2015, 10:30 PM
#451
That car does look lower than most - into the over-lowered area. Tyres, maybe.
My Type R ('P1') which was a similar height and it was pretty much on the stops. Drove horribly - understeered and crashed on hard hits
Your mantra is fine - more than one way to skin a cat as they say
As you know, I have 22/24 bars on my classic and I can't imagine it driving any better
Only been out in it a couple of times (been suspension fettling mt Forester STi so that sees the days out jollies) and forgot to measure. I will though
My Type R ('P1') which was a similar height and it was pretty much on the stops. Drove horribly - understeered and crashed on hard hits
Your mantra is fine - more than one way to skin a cat as they say
As you know, I have 22/24 bars on my classic and I can't imagine it driving any better
Only been out in it a couple of times (been suspension fettling mt Forester STi so that sees the days out jollies) and forgot to measure. I will though
The front stops are 60mm and rock hard in the v5/v6 sti Kyb inverted struts.
Hence, the original designer of the P1 suspension, recommends changing the bump stops to an updated design.
06 November 2015, 11:53 PM
#452
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Oh man
I'd really like a set of P11L's front and rear, are these still up to be purchased? 
*crosses fingers*
*crosses fingers*
Last edited by 96wrc; 06 November 2015 at 11:55 PM.
...... Yes
09 November 2015, 05:45 PM
#457
Before. http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/y...psnlhc3mer.jpg
After. http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/y...psbcmsdnta.jpg
As for the ride. It is firm and a little crashy on bumpy roads, though this is more at slow speeds (20-40mph), at high speeds the suspension seems better able to absorb poor surfaces. The Pedders Sport Ryder shocks are supposed to be a bit firmer than stock. Like Bonesetter I also have 22/24 arbs.
Nick
Last edited by Nick_Cat; 09 November 2015 at 05:51 PM. Reason: additional info
10 November 2015, 07:26 AM
#460
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A few months ago I bought a set of the P1 inverted dampers for my V3 STi and wondered what springs to use. I did loads of homework and came to the conclusion that the oe STi springs would be too hard with those dampers.
I spotted 2 pot was selling the P11L springs and after a bit of thought ordered those and a set of the uprated bumpstops.
I had the lot fitted and set up at Powerstation. At first the ride was hard and crashy and I was not impressed but after a hundred miles or so the ride settled down and I have to say that I'm really impressed. I'm a lot more confident throwing the car around. The ride is now a lot more compliant. Yes it's firm but certainly not uncomfortably firm.
I also noticed that with the uprated bum stops the car doesn't want to pitch forward when I stand on the brakes.
I'm really pleased with it.
I spotted 2 pot was selling the P11L springs and after a bit of thought ordered those and a set of the uprated bumpstops.
I had the lot fitted and set up at Powerstation. At first the ride was hard and crashy and I was not impressed but after a hundred miles or so the ride settled down and I have to say that I'm really impressed. I'm a lot more confident throwing the car around. The ride is now a lot more compliant. Yes it's firm but certainly not uncomfortably firm.
I also noticed that with the uprated bum stops the car doesn't want to pitch forward when I stand on the brakes.
I'm really pleased with it.
12 November 2015, 04:24 PM
#461
Ok, here are the side views: before and after. Both times with about 3/4 tank of fuel.
Before. http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/y...psnlhc3mer.jpg
After. http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/y...psbcmsdnta.jpg
As for the ride. It is firm and a little crashy on bumpy roads, though this is more at slow speeds (20-40mph), at high speeds the suspension seems better able to absorb poor surfaces. The Pedders Sport Ryder shocks are supposed to be a bit firmer than stock. Like Bonesetter I also have 22/24 arbs.
Nick
Before. http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/y...psnlhc3mer.jpg
After. http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/y...psbcmsdnta.jpg
As for the ride. It is firm and a little crashy on bumpy roads, though this is more at slow speeds (20-40mph), at high speeds the suspension seems better able to absorb poor surfaces. The Pedders Sport Ryder shocks are supposed to be a bit firmer than stock. Like Bonesetter I also have 22/24 arbs.
Nick
As we've previously discussed, I've tested many struts - including excel-g's - so I understand their capabilities.
Some thoughts:
I've mentioned this effect many times:
You want the smallest bars possible, on a road car, to avoid 'roll-rock'.
Roll-rock:
If the spring rate is relatively low and the sta bar is too stiff, a suspension movement, initially, occurring on only one side of the vehicle, will be transmitted to the other side, inducing an unsettling 'roll-rock' motion.
BUT, there's something else that should be factored in - bar sizes and their effect on damping.
Bars also add to the spring rate during maneuvers/cornering.
Your dampers have got to be able to control that increase in spring rate (spring + bar):
P11L's with 19mm/20mm bars will be good with excel-gs.
P11L's with bigger bars will overwhelm excel-g's - you're under-damped.
Taking bonesetter's set-up, which he likes (
), 22/24mm + P1 springs + WR99 Bilstein dampers.I'd suggest his set-up works, for him, due to the inherent, extra, capacity of his dampers, to control higher rates.
Wonder if I should make some matching bars?
Last edited by 2pot; 12 November 2015 at 04:32 PM.
12 November 2015, 04:30 PM
#462
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Seems like the natural progression to make suitable bars.
I wonder how my car with WR97/98 Bilsteins, P11-L springs and 21mm bars (adjustable) will behave.....
I wonder how my car with WR97/98 Bilsteins, P11-L springs and 21mm bars (adjustable) will behave.....
12 November 2015, 04:32 PM
#463
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Thanks for the pictures, they're really helpful.
As we've previously discussed, I've tested many struts - including excel-g's - so I understand their capabilities.
Some thoughts:
I've mentioned this effect many times:
You want the smallest bars possible, on a road car, to avoid 'roll-rock'.
Roll-rock:
If the spring rate is relatively low and the sta bar is too stiff, a suspension movement, initially, occurring on only one side of the vehicle, will be transmitted to the other side, inducing an unsettling 'roll-rock' motion.
BUT, there's something else that should be factored in - bar sizes and their effect on damping.
Bars also add to the spring rate during maneuvers/cornering.
Your dampers have got to be able to control that increase in spring rate (spring + bar):
P11L's with 19mm/20mm bars will be good with excel-gs.
P11L's with bigger bars will overwhelm excel-g's - your under-damped.
Taking bonesetter's set-up, which he likes (), 22/24mm + P1 springs + WR99 Bilstein dampers.
I'd suggest his set-up works, for him, due to the inherent, extra, capacity of his dampers, to control higher rates.
Wonder if I should make some matching bars?
As we've previously discussed, I've tested many struts - including excel-g's - so I understand their capabilities.
Some thoughts:
I've mentioned this effect many times:
You want the smallest bars possible, on a road car, to avoid 'roll-rock'.
Roll-rock:
If the spring rate is relatively low and the sta bar is too stiff, a suspension movement, initially, occurring on only one side of the vehicle, will be transmitted to the other side, inducing an unsettling 'roll-rock' motion.
BUT, there's something else that should be factored in - bar sizes and their effect on damping.
Bars also add to the spring rate during maneuvers/cornering.
Your dampers have got to be able to control that increase in spring rate (spring + bar):
P11L's with 19mm/20mm bars will be good with excel-gs.
P11L's with bigger bars will overwhelm excel-g's - your under-damped.
Taking bonesetter's set-up, which he likes (
), 22/24mm + P1 springs + WR99 Bilstein dampers.I'd suggest his set-up works, for him, due to the inherent, extra, capacity of his dampers, to control higher rates.
Wonder if I should make some matching bars?
Oh no, what have I done.
12 November 2015, 10:42 PM
#466
Me too. I have the same setup, but with standard bars and an ALK, I can't think of anything that would improve it now. I drove across mid Wales this morning, every road surface imaginable, very wet, the car was sublime. It's a bit unrefined at town speeds, but over 40mph it all comes together.
13 November 2015, 11:55 AM
#467
Me too. I have the same setup, but with standard bars and an ALK, I can't think of anything that would improve it now. I drove across mid Wales this morning, every road surface imaginable, very wet, the car was sublime. It's a bit unrefined at town speeds, but over 40mph it all comes together.
But, there are benefits when going a bit faster, around corners
"sublime"... made my day.
Last edited by 2pot; 13 November 2015 at 02:00 PM.
13 November 2015, 02:25 PM
#468
As 'scubbay' pointed out to me.
There is a KYB strut between the excel-g and the agx.
But, does anyone sell it in the UK & NI?
NST5111L New SR Special FRONT LEFT NST5111R New SR Special FRONT RIGHT NST5085L New SR Special REAR LEFT NST5085R New SR Special REAR RIGHT
kyb sr special info
There is a KYB strut between the excel-g and the agx.
But, does anyone sell it in the UK & NI?
NST5111L New SR Special FRONT LEFT NST5111R New SR Special FRONT RIGHT NST5085L New SR Special REAR LEFT NST5085R New SR Special REAR RIGHT
kyb sr special info
Last edited by 2pot; 19 November 2015 at 04:49 PM.
14 November 2015, 09:53 PM
#471
P11L spring set £235 inc delivery UK & NI
Matching bump stops and dust boots - £50
Match - new, currently available dampers:
KYB excel-g
KYB sr special - Don't think there's a UK stockist kyb sr special info
KYB agx
KYB V5/6 STI and P1 inverted (matching bump stops £45)
Koni inserts
Match - No longer available:
Prodrive Bilstein WR97/98 (Can also be re-valved, at Bilstein, to use WR15R/T)
Prodrive Bilstein WR99
Ohlins
WR15R/T spring set - £290 inc delivery UK and NI
Matching bump stops and dust boots - £50
Match - new, currently available dampers:
KYB sr special - Don't think there's a UK stockist kyb sr special info
KYB agx
KYB V5/6 STI and P1 inverted (matching bump stops £45)
Koni inserts
Match - No longer available:
Ohlins
Prodrive Bilstein WR99
Matching bump stops and dust boots - £50
Match - new, currently available dampers:
KYB excel-g
KYB sr special - Don't think there's a UK stockist kyb sr special info
KYB agx
KYB V5/6 STI and P1 inverted (matching bump stops £45)
Koni inserts
Match - No longer available:
Prodrive Bilstein WR97/98 (Can also be re-valved, at Bilstein, to use WR15R/T)
Prodrive Bilstein WR99
Ohlins
WR15R/T spring set - £290 inc delivery UK and NI
Matching bump stops and dust boots - £50
Match - new, currently available dampers:
KYB sr special - Don't think there's a UK stockist kyb sr special info
KYB agx
KYB V5/6 STI and P1 inverted (matching bump stops £45)
Koni inserts
Match - No longer available:
Ohlins
Prodrive Bilstein WR99
Last edited by 2pot; 19 November 2015 at 04:35 PM.
18 November 2015, 07:35 PM
#476
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18 November 2015, 10:05 PM
#478
No P11 springs were manufactured, through lack of interest.
The spring set, that most closely matches the rates of your current springs, are the WR15R/T.
If your looking to improve handling on uneven/undulating B-roads, then the P11L's, will work with your existing struts - but you'd need to change your internal bump stops.
hth
