mrburtonsir

I like how you keep it simple and compare it to a Subaru!

Xx-IAN-xX

Done a few trips offshore and although it was on a different type of helicopter to the above it seems there have been a number of incidents over the past year or so . Anyone remember the this one
http://scaffmag.com/2013/11/scaffold...h-killed-four/

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I hope they are a little more specific than OBD-II P-codes though

Funkii Munkii

I noticed it yesterday being taken down the M3 to Farnborough with various, marked/unmarked cars as well as outriders, probably 8 vehicles all told, I doubt a civilian a/c would attract that sort of presence, Understandable considering they lost 3 of their own in the accident.

mrmadcap

Do they suspect fowl play, look at the length of time it took to recover the bodies and they blamed that on 'elf & safety'.

They recover people from buildings in these third world countries after major earthquakes quicker than that.

andylinney

I suppose that third world countries have less of an issue with the health and safety inspectorate breathing down their neck and every journalist and camera within 300 miles recording their every move.

Had they have sent several fire fighters in and they too had lost their lives then we'd perhaps be saying how, in reality, those killed in the crash weren't going to get any deader so what was the rush?

The building involved was an old tenement block and had three separate roof structures, by taking things slowly the emergency services were able to ensure that those who had the job of recovering the victims could do so in relative safety.

After all, the dead aren't going to be late for anything.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I don't think it was a bird strike

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Here, here.

We need a return to this kind of law enforcement!

sti-04!!

I've heard reports that the 'copter was hovering for over an hour looking for a body in the city as a train driver had called in & reported that he reckoned he'd hit someone. It was on its way back & obviously something failed.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

According to the latest reports investigators have found no problems with major mechanical components
Seems odd

RA Dunk

Hmmm, the way it 'fell' from he sky would suggest a mechanical failure of some sort, so that's that ruled out then.

Again I doubt with the way it fell it would be pilot error.

Low or no fuel looks quite likely. I've seen them fly offshore with only enough fuel to circle the rig once before having to land so it definitely does happen. But then again this is a different ball game to offshore.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Apparently it had 95 litres of fuel on board when it crashed
And neither the main or tail rotors where spinning on impact

David Lock

Plenty of fuel left in tanks but could be a fuel supply problem.

What if pilot had a fatal heart attack - would engine stop like it did?

dl

g7prs

iTrader: (5)

The chopper still had fuel on it when it was recovered. The report also says that neither the main or tail rotas where turning at the time of impact.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/...2___g_spao.cfm

g7prs

iTrader: (5)

Beat me to it

RA Dunk

Well everything appears to be pointing to human error then, maybe they stalled or shut it down by accident? If that's even possible I don't know, I would assume there are procedures in place to avoid that though.

andylinney

A totally failed attempt at an auto rotation perhaps?

Wouldn't be the first time I had buggered up an auto on one of my RC helicopters and totally lost rotor speed. But then, I'm not a military trained full size helicopter pilot.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

You would think the only reason the blades would stop spinning is massive mechanical failure , I was under the impression that they were designed to keep spinning with no power or input , in order to at least not drop out of the sky like a stone
But at low level is there enough distance/height for the airflow to rotate the blades fast enough to have an effect

RA Dunk

From memory whether it's correct or not I seem to recall something like for every 1000ft a chopper is off the ground it can glide around 3/4 of a mile. Given the height they were flying that wouldn't have worked though.

The choppers we use to get offshore have twin engines so if one cuts out the other kicks in straight away, I'm not sure if those smaller choppers have the same set up.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

The blades must have been spinning at least a minimal amount , with no mechanical failure and even shut down I can't see how they would become instantly static

RA Dunk

No neither can I, it actually sounds like catastrophic gearbox failure before it did what it did, but obviously evidence says otherwise.

Where's Les at he's normally clued up with these things, come to think of it I haven't seen him for a while now I hope he's ok.

andylinney

There's also something called vortex ring state or 'settling with power' that could explain the rapid descent. It doesn't explain the stopped rotors though.

RA Dunk

I think vortex ring state is what brought down the chopper off of Shetland a few months ago killing four, something to do with the rotors not providing enough lift at low altitude or something like that. But like you say it dosent explain why the rotors wouldent be rotating.

andylinney

Unless he pulled full collective before impact and that took all of the energy out of the blades. But that wouldn't stop them.

speedking

EC-135 is twin engined. Don't know if they both have independent fuel supply though.

It was completely fly-by-wire so possibly a software gremlin as seen in Airbus crashes.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

, maybe the investigators meant the rotors were not rotating at a useful speed ,( not static ) and the news reports just say not rotating

Dr Hu

Well the commentator on R4 said they (the AIB) reckoned they know what happened (but can't prove it conclusively) as if it was a mechanical part failure they would have grounded the fleet - and tellingly that hasn't happened!

Its a mystery for sure...

(and yes it had two engines - one of which was tested in the chopper and it turned the rotors - the other engine was too badly damaged by the impact to test. - I'm now wondering if they had an engine failure and shut the wrong one down???? Or as they haven't grounded the fleet they know it was pilot error.)

RA Dunk

Pointing at pilot error then I would guess.

LEO-RS

The helicopter was losing airspeed due to the autopilot mode for airspeed being decoupled. The pilots were flying blind and airspeed was being lost unnotioced. By the time they took action to correct the airspeed, the onset of VRS had begun and it fell into the water and immediately rolled over. VRS wasn't the cause, just one of the many results of the failure to spot the decaying airspeed

Pilot error. (I work with both these pilots)

As to this Glasgow incident, baffling, even we can't work out the strong candidate for what went wrong. Engines off, looks like a failed auto attempt but does not explain the rotors not turning nor the aircraft apparently tumbling, throw in the misfiring engines, there was adequate fuel still in the tanks, it's a strange one.

andylinney

Contaminated fuel perhaps? I know they've said there was fuel in the tanks but if it was contaminated then it might explain the misfiring (flame-out).

The low rotor speed could be attributed to a mis-managed auto if the pilot attempted to recover too soon. Loss of rotor speed would give instability through loss of control and perhaps if there's a high centre of gravity on the heli that could have caused a roll over / tumble.

Just speculation of course but like someone said earlier, there's not much that would stop the blades dead in mid-air.