P1Fanatic

Strange clip - I am not really sure what they were doing? They could learn a lesson off the yanks and go on the third beep

I doubt the RS was 400bhp either - a lot of cars and mods claim 400 but are some way off when you put them on the rollers.

Vtec-Abuser

I agree mate.. I also suspect the BM isn't 400bhp either and the owner believes (like some) that they will get 100bhp from just JB4 . If he has other hardware then fair enough.

I was being sarcastic mate The video says it was a 30-70mpg run

Matteeboy

Ahh haahaha.

I have to admit, I just watched the vid once; didn't really analyse it enough.

But yes, JB4 is good for maybe 360bhp (map5 or 6) but other stuff is needed for more. But a good number are running a genuine 400 with more work. A decat seems to help a lot.
However a number have been dyno'd at 340ish bhp standard (book bhp is 320) and a guy I know has RR'd around 20 and said all of them read 350lbs-ft (book is 335). It's a nippy little machine and I love the lairyness!

Vtec-Abuser

It's all relative really and depends on what rollers you use, but gains are generally consistent. JB4 alone will not bring 400bhp though - even on the N54 Coupe that it is in the vid.
Catless DP's and FMIC will see you there no problems on the N54. The N55 is staring to get there too now.

Matteeboy

Indeed; don't worry, I'm not one fling wild claims around when a minor mod has been done.
TBH ours has plenty enough power for me as it is and the JB4s appear to give a more spiky power delivery which I don't like. It's taken a while to crack the N55 but they're getting there.

GeeDee

iTrader: (2)

Just seen this thread.

I test drove the auto version of the M135i last September and found it interesting but I'm convinced it was noticeably slower than my Spec D on acceleration through the gears. In theory, with PPP, mine should be 4.7secs 30-70 and around 11.5 seconds to 100 so, according to the figures, the BMW should have walked it.

I loved the gearbox (faster and more fuel efficient over the manual), if only I could have one on my car, but didn't think much of the lack of LSD although I notice you advise they a re a £1,600 add on.

I might still be tempted when Scooby2 ownership ends although I can't believe I would have ever considered an auto over manual !!

Matteeboy

It might be that the smoothness and lack of lag (almost) made it feel slower? It certainly wouldn't walk all over a spec D but it should be a bit quicker.
You need Sport mode for the gearbox (borderline brutal) and Sport+ for the rest; this disables stability but leaves DTC on and uses an e-diff. The difference is noticeable; then you really can hoon it.

It's such a good auto 'box that most choose it; on our cars (like our Outback and the van) I prefer manual.

GeeDee

iTrader: (2)

Not convinced Matteeboy. We were pulling onto a major dual carriageway and the sales person (nice lady who wanted to go fast as she liked the sound) had told me to give it the beans after she had selected the relevant modes.

We got to three figures (70.1) several times and none of them gave anywhere near the push in the back my Spec D gives. Maybe it wasn't in the best of health for some reason although it was relatively new.

Matteeboy

They're meant to be run in for 1200 miles then loosen up at about 5000.
The fairly sudden and brutal way a fast Scoob engine operates (small engine, big turbo) gives a real kick but it's only brief; you won't get that in the BM; torque peaks at 1300rpm.
Feel is often used as way of judging power; and spiky delivery can feel "faster" when its not.

The numbers speak for themselves. Foot flat down for a sustained period in an M135i and you'll be going very quickly. They are designed to be very easy daily drivers which can soften the feel when not in full attack mode.

It gives both an S3 and an STI a firm thrashing on two track tests; showing that fast RWD is sometimes more effective than safe AWD.

GeeDee

iTrader: (2)

Not that new - it was a secondhand car for sale and definitely run in.

I agree with the 2 litre engines but mines a 2.5 and the acceleration was noticeably different to my old 2 litre Classic with 276bhp which did provide relatively "spikey delivery". Mine currently just pushes and pushes as a much torquier engine.

Anyway, I'm here to offer my experience of the BM, not to wave *******. You are obviously enjoying your new beast so good luck to you and, as I said, might consider one in the future as I do get fed up visiting petrol stations and especially now I know I can get an LSD.

I think you mentioned a recent face lift. Do you know what the changes were?

Matteeboy

Better front lights, worse front spoiler and grotty rear end. 5 more bhp, a couple more options.

Carnut

Go to 6.55/7.00 and press pause on the vid, you should see a time table.
Note the AMG also and if unsure, all times are by the same professional racing driver.

Don't watch the rest of the vid though. The Americans have made the fastest saloon and are selling it for $64000, ****ing Americans.

2015 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat: The Most Powerful…:

Matteeboy

M235i is a different car... For some reason, Autocar got 4.6 to 60 for the 1, high 5s for the 2.

Then watch this...

I'm not disputing the A45; it's quicker in 95% of situations; when it decides to let you change down a gear or two...

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

Love those ridiculous yank hellcats. I see my car is top of that list, standard

Shaun

Matt,
Don't accept some of the bolloxs you hear about the gearbox on the A45. There have been several software updates from MB, which make the box slicker and more responsive now (it changes fine for me in my car). Also if the box won't let you change down, it's because you're going too quick in that gear..... slow the car down. It shouldn't be difficult to do.

By a number of accounts the M235i is a better car than the M135i. However, an interesting point worth mentioning between the M135i and A45 are the tyres. Remember the M135i can be specified with Super Sports, and I'd be amazed if ANY of the press cars were running anything other than the Super Sports (as they can be specified with the RFT). These SS tyres are far better than the "standard" rubber on the A45. You stick both the same SS tyres on both cars, and you will see a bigger gap between the two round a track (those SS tyres have got to be worth a minimum of a second a lap)........ but then what would you expect. The A45 is more expensive and is a proper performance AMG car. The M135i is not a M car and is cheaper. I not sure why the difference in performance would be any great shocker, or need any real justification (for either marques).

Matteeboy

Right so one tiny criticism of the A45 and you're all over it. But it's fine to have several snipes at the M135i.
Yes yours is quicker but it's very close. But mines comfy over a long distance, yours isn't.
Yes it's generally preferred as an out and out hot hatch but some still favour the much cheaper BMW (including Evo).
Yes yours is a "proper" AMG, mine is "only" an M-lite which makes the constant comparisons, some favouring the BMW, quite interesting.
Yes yours is the headline grabber but it's still only a four pot engine with a flawed gearbox.
Yes your car on finance/lease has better bar bragging rights but you and other owners here seem obsessed with the latest remap/whatever rather than actually appreciating the car for what it is; very revealing.
Yes yours is a much shoutier, look-at-me car but many don't want that.
Yes I'll keep mine because I own it and really like it; you'll just move on to renting the next bar bragging rights car once your finance/lease term is over.

Get the message?

Shaun

Matt,
You have TOTALLY misunderstood why I put what I put. Don't get so defensive.

If what I put pissed you off, that was not my intention...... had it been I would have put it totally differently.

It was not about how much better the A45 is or is not.

There is no issue with the gearbox imo. With you now saying it is "flawed" is displaying a response based on lack of knowledge.

I made the point about the tyres because it IS a major factor, that strangely no one appears to make clear when comparing apples and oranges.

My point about the A45 being an AMG, was not to belittle the M135i in any way shape or form. It was simply to highlight that you'd expect the AMG to be quicker, because you're not comparing it to BMW's equivalent M series. That is all.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Matt your sooooooo ******* defensive sometimes it makes me p!ss.

Thanks for that mate.

I don't think anyone is attacking the M135i and TBH if it were me I'd be very tempted only thing that would maybe sway me in the direction of the merc is the 4wd and that's only because of where I live (Istrian mountain region) which has very slippy slimey roads with a nice coating of clay type mud due to the rural location and every man and his dog having land and a tractor, currently it's like someone smeared butter on the road and my car is all over the place at the slightest hint of gas, which is fun but very slow going is the order of the day unless you want said tractors pulling you out of a field.

thenewgalaxy

Shaun's point about the tyres is a very valid one, it is very important to have the right rubber on them.

What some manufacturers put on their cars might not necessarily be best for a trackday shootout.

Shaun

Ditch,
The Haldex system on the A45 is not like your Scoob though. The A45 tends to munch the fronts, which highlights how much the rears aren't actually playing much of a part in the dynamics most of the time. Of course there are some advantages to that, but it's probably not as versatile as the always on AWD system in the Scoob for grip.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Interesting, so pretty much like a FWD car for the vast majority of the time. I have had and still have a haldex AWD vehicle (VW) and find them ok although I think out here the BMW with that much power going to the rear wheels might be a bridge too far. My STI Type R with 330bhp was a bit of a handful out here and I even span out with it once at very low speed but again on slimey tarmac, which served to teach me just how bad the roads out here can be for the un-educated.

stoneface

iTrader: (6)

Jesus wept-someone has serious issues!

Shaun

Absolutely.... I haven't had enough time in mine to find it's nuances, although I have lit the fronts up once nailing it out of a sharp bend, although it only skipped for a nanosecond. It's something I'm not used to with the Scoob.

The power thing with RWD I don't really get if I'm being honest. The best traction control you'll have in any car is your right foot. Now.... if a RWD is lighting the tyres up in the dry on a straight piece of road, you'd have a valid point. lol Like my old 500bhp RWD RS500 used to...... until it did it one too many times and I decided to sell it, before I prematurely ended my life.

You didn't have the diff open on your Type R perchance? They can be quite a savage diff in comparison to other Scoobs.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

TBH I don't remember what position it was in as I'm always winding it back and forth as I see fit, depending on what I'm doing with the car. and it's easy to forget how it needs to be driven when I've not been driving it for a while, which was the case at the time. That incident taught me to pay attention at all times whilst driving that car no matter how slow your going, it's not a car you can drive on auto-pilot like you would a mondeo going to the shops or to work on a well known route, even doing that one needs to pay attention as one wrong move ie lift off the gas at 40mph going into a bend can see you on a grass verge facing the wrong way saying wtf just happened.

Carnut

Notice how it was a tight handling circuit and not one with big straights for high horse power to take advantage.

Shaun, good points about tyres.

I'll say this though about the M135i, I haven't driven either the M135I or the A45 AMG but with out sounding stupid, the M135i seems to have more soul.

It seems from the out side the A45 for what ever reason has less of a emotional connection. I see people selling up more quickly with the A45 and while the M135i comes second to the AMG in performance the presenters (Chris Harris) seem to end by saying how satisfying it is in the M135i when you feel the weight shift backwards because of the RWD and the rear end squat, all the time having that amazing engine up front, ie more of a drivers car instead of playstation generation.

See Mattee, I'm not always trying to pìss you off.

RS Grant

You may or may not have been around at the time Matt; but there used to be a guy called Carl that kicked around on here/Pistonheads who owned a DMS-mapped E92 335d referred to as 'the dxb' because of it's number plate. Now, in his eyes, this car was beyond reproach... using any angle, in any thread he could, he would preach about how wonderful his car was; firing out facts and figures in a bid to bolster that argument and defend it against any criticism. He even prompted an Urban Dictionary entry: Clicky

We get that you love your car, which as I've said to you before, is absolutely fine. But being honest, that Carl/335d-mapped stuff ended up as a bit of an internet joke... I thought it was worth mentioning and suggesting that you may want to cool down on drawing comparisons with X, Y or Z on any thread you can; just to bring up the (IYO) amazing engine, handling, gearbox, economy, etc of an M135i and/or jump straight on the defensive if anyone should dare to say they don't share the same opinion of the M135i as you do.

I'm not posting this for a reaction, or to start a debate... I'm just sharing my opinion which you may/may not want to take any notice of. Either is fine with me, but sometimes it's good for someone on the outside to lift the blinkers and share their perspective.


Cheers,
Grant

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

lol I love this site for exactly threads like this.

Matts car is fantastic, I think as in my earlier post some people just don't get it, it's not about out and out power or speed, it's about fun, simples.

Good sized engine in smallish hatch and RWD, it's never going to be the quickest car on the planet, it's certainly not going to have the best traction in adverse conditions, hell my 265bhp wrx will hand it it's *** on a wet country road, but that's not the point, it's got power, it's got RWD, it's got flappy paddles and slightly saggy suspension, all of this equals bags of fun, You can't put a price on smiles per mile.

But I must admit matt is a little "precious" about it and that is fun to watch.

Matteeboy

Okay, fair enough, my post was about OTT and unlike Carl (who I know and who now has an E46 M3) I'm not blinkered to any cars faults.

Anyway, all good fun and at least we have these good cars to argue about.

Oh and cheers carnut!

CupraT

I loved the M135 when I test drove it. Went for a 335d xdrive in the end as I wanted 4wd and a bit more room.

Got a Golf R as a company car and enjoying that. Part of the decision for getting this was cost and emissions. I couldn't have got the 135 or the Merc.

There are loads of great cars at the moment. Just about choosing the car that's right for you.

Devildog

You're waisting your time Shaun.

You've just experienced Matt at his over reactive, over sensitive, paranoid, insecure about his purchasing decison "best"

As you've said - the A45 is over £10k more new. If it wasn't a different proposition to the M135i something would be far wrong! (And I'm a huge fan of the M135i - its a cracking piece of kit, and all the more so at the money BMW ask for it)