f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yet, a bit like the winter tyres debate for some drivers, many see it as an insult to their ability to suggest that any sort of test is a good idea, only nasty vehicle drivers need to be tested

As I said earlier it's become a war out there and that is the problem. Look at davyboy and XX-Ian-XX here, both have fairly extreme views on opposing sides of the argument yet they both probably feel that they are in no way being extreme!

davyboy

I'd not say my views were extremes, I'm not breaking any laws. In fact I'd love to ride 2 abreast, but finding a cycling buddy who can ride at the same time as me is rare.

I'd suggest you will not find commuters riding 2 abreast, this would be more something sports cyclist would do, as such it would rarely take place in towns.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yes I knew you'd say that as I said.

Seriously though I don't mean it as a criticism, I just think that as the argument escalates across the motoring and cycling fraternities it is very easy to move to a more extreme point of view as the both sides become more entrenched.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

How the Aussie police deal with cyclists

Police office in WA swears at cyclist

trails

iTrader: (41)

But it's really not extreme, so he is correct...Davy is not saying "screw you polluting cars, bikes have the right to ride to abreast everywhere ".

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I think given his previous posts on the subject he is... shall we say... very pro cyclist!

Look at the two abreast thing. he is right in what he says about who cares if they hold you up for a few seconds, but I think what XX-Ian-XX is getting at are the ones that cycle like that for miles knowing they are holding everyone up.

Now most cyclists cycling two abreast will actually hold people up for somewhere between a few seconds and half an hour, but both parties arguing the point are making their point with the extreme case!

trails

iTrader: (41)

You can be pro something without taking things to extremes.

So the two abreast thing; you are having to make assumptions to justify your posts instead of just commenting on what is actually there

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yes, it's a pity cyclists can't!

No it's fact. Generally when I come across two cyclists riding two abreast they hold up traffic for a good bit longer than 30 seocnds, but not for an unreasonable amunt oftime either in my book. Sorry if that p1sses on your chips, but can only say what I see from round these parts anyway!

trails

iTrader: (41)

"It's a pity non-cyclist can't!

No it's a fact. Generally when I'm riding two abreast I move into single file as soon as it is safe to do so to ensure I don't inconvenience other road users for an unreasonable amount of time. Sorry if that p1sses on your chips, but can only say how I behave."

See what I did there Chris, I made a statement based on my own experiences and passed it off as fact...doesn’t necessarily make it true though

hodgy0_2

i suspect the same people who get agitated and frustrated at being help up by cyclists in general, and cyclists riding two abreast in particular (god forbid they are riding in a peleton)

are the same impatient and aggressive drivers that get agitated and frustrated at

Horses
Caravans
Lorries
Gritters
Rubbish Collection Vehicles
Slow moving tractors and other farm vehicles
Cows and other farm animals being moved along the road
Learner drivers
Old Drivers
Women Drivers

and basically any other driver on the road who is not going as fast as they would like to drive

we have all seen them constantly weaving over the road to get an overtacking opportunity

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Except you are comparing a single sample (i.e. you) with my multiple sample and in the science of statistics that make my sample pool far more significant and therefore my conclusions to be a lot more credible! Thanks anyway though

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

The only thing that annoys me there is the word peleton.... it's a f**king group... get over yourselves with the stupid expressions

Matteeboy

Overtacking can result in sudden loss of wind in sails. Doesn't often happen to me in a car ;-)

trails

iTrader: (41)

So you have data logged each instance you have encountered cyclist riding two abreast in order to capture the time you have spent sitting behind them? Not any "a lot more credible", just more anecdotal waffle...and unless you are the unluckiest motorist n the history of driving you will not have encountered enough two abreast riders to allow for any meaningful or significant conclusions to be drawn from your experiences...

And what if my single sample was actual a comment based on riding with a club, that club having a membership of around seventy people each of whom ride like me?

dpb

He's clearly jus being a ****


Wouldn't matter if he was on 4, 2 or no wheels at all

trails

iTrader: (41)

You sure it's not where they have installed too many saddles and bridles on a horse?!

Xx-IAN-xX

.
I have nothing against cyclists I would just encourage drivers they need to think on their behalf as most cyclists are using the public highway with out any given proof they are competent to do so.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Sorry, but you lost this argument a couple of posts back. What ifs??? You really should know better than that

Fact is cyclists riding two abreast are not a major headache for most people and most will get out of the way when they can, it's just not as quickly as 30 seconds or as long as a half an hour like those at each extreme of the argument claim!

trails

iTrader: (41)

Do you not treat all road users like that; expect the unexpected from mostly **** wits? I do, the standard of driving from those qualified to do so can be appalling

trails

iTrader: (41)

Not really Chris, my point is you are using anecdotes and trying to pass them off as fact...your experience basedanecdotes are not fact. I used the 'what if' statement as an illusitration of that point not as a statement of fact

Fact is cyclists probably aren't a a major headache for anyone in the great scheme of things...but its good to bitch eh

Xx-IAN-xX

I would agree , just because someone has passed a driving test it doesn't make them a competent driver but cyclists are allowed onto the roads without undertaking any knowledge based training.
A number of large petro/chem sites which I work on use bicycles to get around site , all staff who use them are made to sit a cycling proficiency test , wear helmets and hi viz clothing . Surely that is just common sense??
Then again I suppose common sense isn't that common

trails

iTrader: (41)

Absolutely agree regarding common...or should that be un-common sense

The only reason they are made to take those test\wear that kit is to ensure the company directors don't get shafted in the event of an accident. HR doing their job protecting the company

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

LOL! Er... experienced based anecdotes = facts. I have experienced several occasions when cyclists were riding two abreast and holding up traffic for longer than 30 seconds. They are facts. I did not imagine those occasions or misconstrue them, I experienced them.

I expect what you are driving at is that either my sample size is still not big enough to present a worthy conclusion (you maybe right, but it is better than one ) or the amount of time traffic was held up for was not easily quantifiable and you are right except that it was definitely greater than 30 seonds and a lot less than half an hour. Fact

The 'what if' was a cheap shot thugh I'll grant you

Xx-IAN-xX

I know I am a health and safety consultant. But like I say surely this is basic stuff and common sense that should be adhered too on the roads.

trails

iTrader: (41)

slipping into an embarrassing display of pedantry now...and that's just not like you :P

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I disagree, I have displayed pedantry on several occasions, here's a list of those threads...

























... just kidding

Xx-IAN-xX

Well here's my conclusion

.
.
Cyclists fall under the same category as caravanists

C**ts

hodgy0_2

it may well be a fact - but what does it actually prove, in the larger debate about how cyclists effect motorist

My Nan (RIP) smoked 60 **** a day for nigh on 65 years and lived to the rip old age of 82 - FACT

what does that prove in a debate about the health effects of smoking, very little

all it proves is that it is possible to smoke and live a long time

all your fact proved is that you were held up by a minute or so on a couple of journeys

trails

iTrader: (41)

Agreed...every single last one of them

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Now what was I saying about sample sizes...

Which if you followed from where we started was not a criticism by me of cyclists, but simply saying that in my experience most times the hold up is greater than 30 seoconds, but not ages either whereas XX-Ian-XX was implying any hold up would be long (and unfair on the part of the cyclists) and Davyboy was saying less than 30 seconds... I was using it as an example to point out how arguments become extreme on both sides when views become entrneched as in reality it is usually somewhere in between those extremes.