I used to work in a school until very recently (not as a teacher) and this doesnt surprise me at all. The problem is that this is a reflection on the way the government are forcing schools to run and the pressure to perform that the teachers are under. I saw outstanding teachers being forced to leave proper teaching behind where well rounded education would have left pupils well placed to enter into the work place in favour of focussing on specific requirements and criteria needed to pass the exams.

I have seen the changing nature of schooling over the last few years and know how much effort most teachers put in. I have seen the commitment, politics and pressure that they face and am in full support of what they are doing. After all I want to be confident that my children are being educated by the best that schools have to offer and not the dregs that are left behind because those who are of a higher ability have gone off to find something better.

 

I totally get what your saying , but is striking and working less gonna help the cause , your gonna lose a hell of a lot of support when you only work at most 9 months a year

 

It is a difficult decision but this is the approach that the unions deem most effective. Of course there are ramifications but I would be more concerned with the longer term effects of the unions doing nothing. Besides what else is as effective at bringing to the surface their concerns? I mean, here we are on page 4 of a car forum of all things.

 

they sound familiar, do they post on scoobynet?

 

Agree with the OP 100%.
Teachers need to wake up and smell the coffee.
I'll go teach a bit of drama for 30k per year,a ridiculous amount of holidays(paid).
If you teachers are not happy with the above then do my job, a skilled job that earns 0 holiday per year on just over half what you get paid, out the door at 7am daily,home after 6 daily in all weathers outside. Your a joke and are loosing what little respect you have left,,every one is struggling and having to make sacrifices why should you be any different.

 

brilliant

in essence,

I am a no mark with a sh1te job and crap working conditions so I resent anyone who has it better than me

sums this country up

 

A few questions come to mind:

1. What do you actually do?
2. How long did you train at £0 per annum income and £lots fees ?
3. Does your finished product resist being finished?
4. Does your finished product abuse and sometimes attack you?
5. If you raise your voice at your finished product, does it's parents come in and either threaten to punch you, or actually do so?
6. If teaching is so easy, and so lucrative, why aren't you a teacher?

 

He can't be a teacher, not with spooling like that

 

I have one.

Why even entertain what was written?

 

It's Pedro, come in by the back door. :Whatever

 

 

Never said teaching was easy, I would say Its a damn site easier than 7.30 - 5.00 on a cold site this time of year.
All I'm saying is we are all struggling,the government are content on robbing all of us, 10 years ago I was taking home after tax £600pw now I'm lucky to break £400 with a Saturday morning, I have to accept this and don't have the option of going on strike, I moan I get the boot!! Simple.

 

On the contrary, I enjoy my job and a few years ago I was regularly earning more than a teachers position.

 

Mate I get some of your points , but I think the point is being missed slightly
Lots of people train at 0% per annum or a very very low income that is of little use
If they don't do that then they may cram a job in as well as studies , so there's nothing unique about that
Product resist being finished , well yes , talk to many trades and due to circumstances beyond there control , budget , weather , suppliers , a multitude of issues can make it very hard to complete a project / product / job
Abuse /attack you , certainly not an argument to justify pay
As many builders / joiners / electricians / engineers will testify
See my other thread about my injuries sustained at work and I'll wager not many teachers have returned home looking like that due to there job
Or even killed due to the nature of there job or working environment

As for wanting to teach , it would totally bore a lot of folk
Like the saying goes
Those that can , do , Those that cannot , teach

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^+1^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Sorry mate but this nonsense about 'a finished product' you keep going on about is utter tosh. It's the worst analogy or comparison I've ever heard.

 

They are valid points , but nothing different or no worse than many people face in other occupations
Hence my disagreement that they are not grounds for increased pay , that and coupled with good aspects of the job and conditions that teachers already have ,

It's been said if teaching is that easy and lucrative why don't you become a teacher
Ok on the flip side
If teaching is hard and not lucrative , why become a teacher ?

If the answer to this question is " to educate future generations , job satisfaction , putting something back into society

Then it nagates the pay argument somewhat

Your either in it for the good , or in it for the money
If it's the latter I fear your in it for the wrong reasons
A policeman with no criminals or crime
A fireman with no fires
A doctor with no patients
Ect ,ect
They would all be fantastic jobs if they didn't have down sides

But unfortunately in the real world this never happens and you can't have your cake and eat it

 

The reasons why people become teachers are not being questioned and rightfully so. I don't see any reason why people should not expect to be paid a fair amount that reflects what they do. It is the reasonable and fair amount that is being questioned and as mentioned all ready that depends on how much value is placed on teaching. I have made my opinion clear and do not wish to keep going round in circles.

 

Yes? Been in many classrooms and tried it, have you?

When you get a classfull of fifteen and sixteen year olds who don't want to do your subject....no....don't even want to BE in school, come and give it a go.

THEN you'll understand it's not tosh.

 

Does it really ?

Then please explain why, in the last twenty years, the percentage of men ebtering the prfession in the secondary sector has fallen to an all-time low? And that women are now in the majority?

I'll tell you why....because the men can't make a living out of it, so go into better paid jobs doing something else.

The women are happy to earn the pin-money while husband earns a decent wage.

Seriously, you think that £21,500 is a good starting salary for a graduate with a 2:1 or better....who ALREADY has a sudent loan of £50,000 round their neck?

And with this performance-related pay, their rise, if any, will be on the whim of the headteacher, who "may" decide the school's budget needs a fillip........

 

Agree on a fair days pay,i don't know the first thing about teaching in a modern day school,but i remember when i was at school and some of the **** teachers got from the pupils.Our English teacher had to have time off for depression,because one lad made the Lessons hell.I don't think i could do the job,i couldn't stand some gobby 14 year old,he'd have swift kick up the ***..
On the other side of the coin,i do know someone who works as infant teacher,and yea she does have quite a few holidays.Although she works for a private school,and has told me holidays are unpaid..

 

Sorry, I haven't read every post but....

While some are saying - 60 hours, I work the same hours etc etc

Lets say a teacher (or lecturer) does 40 hours in school, the extra 20 or so hours are made up of planning, marking etc all of which in most cases is not paid for

Would anyone who has commented on that continue to do their job at home for nothing.
So, go home say at 6pm and continue from 7pm to 10pm, for nothing?

 

Teachers are not the only profession that brings work home unpaid, jeez!!
The amount of estimates quotations i drive out too, sometimes 60 miles or so round trip, then work out,on the phone to merchants,write up,print then send all in my own time,my own fuel, paper stamps ink ect ect!

 

I didn't say they are the only profession, just making it known

Plus I think the money is crap for what they do and what they have to put up with these days (same goes with NHS workers), most of us are thinking in our day, mine being 70s 80s where we would get clip round the ear for nothing, these days ive known guns to be in a school and its hushed up, worth a broken arm never mind a clip round the ear, then the grief in class, ive been roughed up by several teachers, cant even breath near kids now

 

As a teacher, I must point out that as and when we strike we don't get paid for that day so realistically we are fined.
When I joined the profession 9 years ago teaching was fun and the kids really engaged. Now a days it's about performance for the school and the students are merely numbers.
This upsets and angers me. I went into the profession to make a difference to young people's education and their socialisation into the real world.
However, the area I work in, this is a real struggle.
I know teachers that do the bare minimum with their working lives and I also know teachers that dedicate every hour to their school and the students.
I spend a minimum of 9 hours daily in school and at least an extra 10 working at home a week. It truly is a non stop job. Even during my 'holidays' I am planning, marking, writing reports, analysing data etc...
The recent strikes and the up coming one is to argue us paying more for our pensions and having to work longer also the fact that the government can cut out pay if they want!
I agree that parents should want the best for their children so want the best teachers, this should be reflected in their pay.
As for the comments of sack them if they strike there are plenty of up young teachers coming out of uni....are there?! Really?! No there are!!! That is why so many unqualified people are now teaching!!
The fact that the good old LA schools are now disappearing into academies to be run as businesses and all they care about is the fact that each child is worth ££££'£!
With regards to a students attendance, if parents let their attendance drop below 80%, education welfare should become involved, if there is no improvement over a sustained period of time then yes the parents should be fined. After all the parents chose to have the child, they are responsible!
Academies buy in EWS so this process is now much quicker!

Having said all of the above, I did not strike the other week as I had too much work to do!!!!!!! I'm dreading the fact that there is only one week left till half term as I have so much to do!

 

Hang on a second lets get the bigger picture and put this pay malarkey into perspective

, 21k starting pay !
Now this isn't pay for 12 months work , this is pay for nearer 9 months work
Which equates to let's say £5/£600 per week
So in answer to your question , yes I think that amout of pay for hours worked is quite acceptable
And if somone has a £50k student loan hanging over there head , then tough
They chose to borrow that amount and it shouldn't be used as another poor justification for more pay
Why borrow 50k in the first place , can students not work part time ? , plenty do and also many people hold down a full time job while trying to attain qualifications to either start a new career or further the one they are in
And regarding pay rises , it's on the whim of head teachers and performance related
Yet again , welcome to the real world
That's no different whatsoever than 99% of private sector jobs , only it's the owner/manager and is always based on performance of the company

Ok I'm gonna ask my boss Monday
I want the same pay for 9 months work
I don't want managment or company performance standing between me and my future pay increases
I deserve more money because I'm at risk of injury ( possibly fatal )
Oh and I deserve more money because I had to take out a loan because I needed a car to get to college
Any bets on what the answers gonna be

Btw the comment from Sami_d made me laugh , "so much to do and it's nearly half term "
Tell you what Sami , get a job where you have so much to do and you've only got a week until a £100k penalty and it could put the company under , then you'll know what pressure is lol

Totally clueless

 

I've defended teachers in this thread but the starting Salary is more than competitive, they can't complain about that.

My missus is still in her NQT year and earns every penny of that 21500, but she frequently acknowledges it as a "good" starting pay when considering her other post grad opportunities.

 

Now you are just beiong silly.

Where the hell are you getting 9 months work from? Do you think teachers do nowt during their holidays? if so, you are sdaly mistaken. My wife is here in France, has brought the laptop and worked five hours today already, with morte to do later. Several of her staff will be in school all week....half term "holiday" or no.

The student loan thing...THINK man! When student loans were brought in, the justif ication was that, once you GOT your degree, you'd earn so much more than everyone else it would make it worth it...£21,500? Right? Worth four years? Worth the loan.

NO......and that's why there's another teacher shortage coming and why blokes don't go into teaching much anymore.

the rest of the stuff you wrote is so far out of left field it's not worth commenting on.

Welcome to the real world? aye...right...like YOU are in it! LOL

 

My eldest was on £24000 as a fabricator. Three years, mostly paid, at tech coll. Started on that.
Could get more if he wanted the overtime.

What overtime can a teacher have? None paid, but plenty expected unpaid.

I know young teachers who do one night a week, like a youthclub, and every saturday morning fotball matches, training one night a week too.

ALL unpaid. NOT actually part of the job, but hey........they don't deserve any more pay, they aren't in the real world.

 

We are just gonna go round in circles and agree to disagree on this one
All I can say is ,if teachers strike and get what they want then good
For them