It's not a stupid analogy. It shows the difference between words and actions, basic human nature. Take politicians. They all slate it in opposition, offer referendum's etc, WORDS. Yet when they are in power and have to take ACTION, they all back off.

If as you say, we would all be better off, (and the evidence is overwhelming) why doesn't Cameron leave the EU, we are all better off, Everyone say's "thanks Dave" and gives him another five years.

???

 

Yes it is. You can't compare the motivations and behaviours of an individual to that of a nation. By leaving the EU we won't be looking for a job elsewhere.

For different reasons, mainly a)what they promised initially is undeliverable or b)there is so much flak they chicken out. An example that springs to mind is Tony Blair instructing Frank Field to think the unthinkable on welfare and when he did thought ooops I can't suggest that and dropped it.

An excellent question. Because he has a vested interest in the status quo seems the most charitable answer. It's worth mentioning that it was official Labour party policy a while ago, IS the policy of the Unions (as stated by Bob Crow on QT), and is the view of a large number of Conservative MPs. Oh and a majority of the population, lets not forget them eh?

 

I still wonder why all the politicians seem to favour us remaining in the Eu. It is difficult not to imagine that the commissioners have made some promises of some kind to them if they manage to con us into joining an Eu Federation.

We are all being taken for a ride in my opinion!

Les

 

What is his 'vested interest'? I thought his one and only interest was getting re-elected!

 

And where there is no logic or evidence, then why not turn to baseless speculation

 

Sorry, been excising freedom of movement of my person and goods round the EU.

 

£50M per day?
Can you count and do sums? Where do you get your figures from? Or are you just parroting UKIP ‘figures’ you’ve heard?

Mine are from the ONS (2011 figures, can't find 2012 numbers):
UK’s EU trade per day: £411M
UK’s net EU cost per day: £14.8M or 3.6% of trade
Net EU cost to UK (2011): £4.4Billion or 0.63% of central Govt income.

You show me your workings and sources, I’ll show you mine.

Wales (via the Rebate) and the Queen (est £0.5M pa via CAP) have done alright out of EU grant money.

You've not given me any reason to want to leave.

 

So we should abandon a £10.7Trillion, 500 million strong market, our values and culture of safeguarding human rights and ACT like fools, just ‘cos one idiot is trying to make us LOOK like fools?

Getting one over an insignificant wannabe martyr hate preacher isn't a good enough reason to walk away from the world's biggest market and screw up the UK economy even more than it is already!

Let me hear more from this long, long list.

 

This is the argument that you pro EU mob put forward that always makes me smile.

Who has EVER said anything about abandoning any market? Do you really think if the UK withdraws from the EU all business between the UK companies and companies in countries still in the EU will cease? Business is about money and money talks.... it will take little, if any, notice of the politics... it never does.

In fact I doubt there will be any change in the level of business done with European companies... if anything it might increase as they may rather do business with a company in a country that is no longer shackled by daft EU regulations!!

 

The question? What question?

@warrenm2, a poster who's clearly not on regular acquaintance with anything resembling a fact, postulates a false posit and then expects (no, demands) me to argue for it as if I believe it's a)true or b)defendable. He and you are both wasting your time.

Back to my statement, ignoring all immigration control legislation before Enoch Powell’s ‘Rivers of Blood’ speech, we've had the:
-Commonwealth Immigrant Act 1968
-Immigration Act 1971
-British Nationality Act 1981
-Immigration and Asylum Appeals Act 1992
-Asylum and Immigration Act 1996
-Immigration and Asylum Act 1999
-British Overseas Territories Act 2002
-Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002
-Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006
-UK Border Act 2007
-Borders Citizens and Immigration Act 2009

Immigration is clearly an area where successive parliaments have been lax and tardy. Looks like time we got some controls in place!

The Lisbon treaty gives me freedom to move my butt, goods, money and services around the EU. I like being able to do that. And I do, along with several million other Brits. And so do BMW, Tata JLR, Nissan, Barclays, Honda, etc to the benefit of the UK.

And every British Prime Minister since Edward Heath - even Thatcher - reckoned it was in Britain’s benefit too, despite that fact that some Irish, Spanish, Portugese, Poles, Bulgarian, Rumanian might come here and wreck or wonderful country.

Clearly, not everyone wants 'these immigrants' coming here. And for many who don't they've finally found a home for their vote in UKIP.

It's dressed up as the anti-EU vote, but given that only 6% (up from 4% last year) of voters think 'Europe' is the pressing issue and no one (not even their new councillors) has a clue about UKIP's policies (and I don't mean a vague wishlist) on fixing the ecomony, reducing unemployment, the NHS, pensions or any other key area, this has a false and hollow ring.

However, we all know UKIP's policy on immigration.

If you want a 'proper debate' on immigration, I'd suggest it's time you called a spade a spade!

I have checked, and you should too: The EU has not imposed a financial transaction tax. But you need to create a bogeyman to fear and lay blame on, so I can understand your concern.

__________________________________________________ ___________________
Chicken Licking was certain the sky had fallen on his head. So, he told Goose Loose, who told...

 

Luckily no UK Govt's been prepared to wager the county's future on your speculation.

The (anedotal) feeling amongst my EU acquaintances is Britain may well leave and they wish we'd just get on with it if we're going.

I think we should get on and have this referendum now.

 

LOL, in post 160 you accuse RRGM of needing to create a bogeyman to fear regarding the EU.... yet that is exactly what you are doing in reverse by suggesting that by leaving the EU we are 'abandoning a £10.7Trillion, 500 million strong market'..... still I guess as long as it supports your argument that's OK eh?

None of which has anything to do with trade or abandoning any markets

Yep, but sadly our dolt of a PM doesn't agree as he wants to try and use that particular carrot to ensure himself another session at the trough.... a ploy which is going to go badly wrong unless he wakes up to reality any time soon.... not something many MPs ever manage until it's too late!

 

rebate what a laugh, ITS OUR OWN MONEY HANDED BACK TO US eu grants my ***, its almost like a refund for following the rules that all the others ignore, it's almost as funny as foreign aid, borrowing money to give to other people, thats like me saying to you in the street sam im'e skint can you lend me a tenner to give to that street begger, still no answer to this one lmao , truth hurts don't it 4% of trade and do you honestly think we wouldn't do that trade if we where not in the eu, the company i work for has branches all over the eu and i for one know things are more expenceve in the eu, i priced a bearing the other day from belgium £21quid france £17.80 uk £14.75 i know what my customer wanted to pay lol

 

I fully agree!

 

Yes, there are laws in place to control the immigration of people from Nigeria, wonderful, but if there is total freedom for all EU nationals to enter the UK and we are powerless to change that, then I ask again, how is that controlled immigration?

This is not purely about immigration, this is about the UK being able to choose it's own policy on it and any other law, like a democracy should, rather than being dictated to by an unelected EU leadership. Immigration is one, highly visible, aspect of this. There's too much disparity between the member nations for these one size fits all policies.

That's why I said 'will' rather than 'has', it is only because we have taken it to the courts to stop it that it hasn't come in yet.

 

Lord Lawson, Maggie's most successful chancellor says the case for exit is clear.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...of-the-EU.html

 

Some MPs yesterday.

 

EFA.

 

Yes, I fear the threat of deeper recession, higher unemployment, further fuel poverty misery through yet another devaluation of the £pound more than I fear Bulgmanians and a non-existence financial levy.

And so do the markets.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________
Sorry, my mistake: Chicken Licking told Hen Len, who told Duck Luck, who told Goose Loose, who told Turkey Lurkey. Then they all told ‘Foxy Loxy’ Farage. Who told them that they just need to vote for Christmas.

 

There you go scaremongering again,... if that's all you've got to offer you've already lost.

Oh and it's not about immigration for me, it's about being sucked in even further to a rapidly failing political experiment or having the sense to get out before the roof caves in and actually make a go of it ourseleves... like we used to before we decided to join the joke that the EU has become!

 

Lawson? Nigel 'Boom Bust' Lawson.

The man who deliberately created a 'Loadsa Money' free-for-all vote-buying ecomonic boom then took the UK economy so badly into bust that it took Major (ineffectual), Lamont (the patsy) and Ken Clarke (competent, one nation-er) and Brown (one of Britain's best post-war Chancellors) nearly 10 years to recover us from his mess.

I'd rather pay more attention to @warrenm2, @RRGM or even you (even though none of you know what you're talking about!) than give that unrepentant economy wrecker time of day.

 

If that's the price of democracy, so be it. Our grandparents paid a far higher price for it.

 

Well someone has to make up the 6%, I suppose.

 

And our parents and us, though (only) through taxes (last instalment on US war bonds paid in 2004).

And I don't want our grandchildren to have to pay a similar price to our grandparents ever again.

__________________________________________________ ______________________
No man is an island, Entire of itself. Each is a piece of the continent, A part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less. John Donne (1572-1631)

 

So you're in agreement, you want to leave the EU! Cos until we do, we are not governed by elected officials.

 

What is Labour's policy on all this?? They seem to have gone all quiet.

Ifr they say we should stay in EU they are doomed but they cannot really support Cameron on his referendum.

My guess is that they will say that Cameron has failed in his EU negotiations so that's why we should vote out.

dl

 

Labour =>

 

Labour are keeping quiet as if the Tory vote is going to be split between the Tories and UKIP then Milliband will be the next PM by default. Currently the polls have Labour at 42% and the Tories and 31%.... hmmmmmm!

 

Have you noticed the much reduced tax paid by British MEP's?

Les

 

And what has that got to do with the wild claim you made?