I'd like to see the source for that. But they are practically the same thing - you can't avoid mass immigration until we change/cancel our deal with the EU. And yes, mass immigration is bad, but not the sole reason for leaving the EU.

Because they are always condemned as racists before a debate even begins?!

I was referring to Mouser's reply to David Lock, who referred to UKIP as racists, presumably purely because they are anti mass-immigration - this is shouting down/smearing the opposition and stifles grown-up debate.

I'd like to hear the effects immigration has on our public services, employment opportunities for British citizens, economic benefit to the country, social adhesion, etc. and go from there, with studies and independent statistics, rather than just brand anyone against it racist. I have yet to see the benefits mass immigration quantified, why is it so wrong to question it?

 

You may be a sensible reasonable poster, but behind the scenes maybe you're a total idiot? No one knows!

Their policy is clearly stated, which is one of CONTROLLED immigration using a points based system

 

I would of thought we'd all be in agreement on this; we want 'the good bits of immigrations', and don't want 'the bad bits'.

The challenge will be agreeing on what constitutes good and bad

 

I think most people would support a system where pubs have a ventilated smoking room which is in fact what UKIP propose. Try not to use straw man arguments. I think the last comment is nonsense, although if you want to provide a link I'll happily retract that

 

I take back my previous comment about you being reasonable, and that no one knows....

 

Reading this thread is quite funny. All those so anti the UKIP seem to be inventing any reason they can as for why they are a bad thing. Much like the Tories are doing too. To me that means they must be doing something right, best of luck to them

Now when do we get to see those snivelling clowns Cameron and Milliband on the TV papering over the cracks as per usual or have I missed that already?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ccentrics-ukip

When I ask about our drink-driving laws, he reluctantly offers:
"I suppose I support them. I suppose I do."
He has no sympathy for anyone caught drink-driving in London.

"But if you're caught out in the rural parts of the country …"

But if the legal alcohol limit is correct in the city, then anyone who exceeds it is a danger wherever they are.

"I just don't like what's happening in rural England, really. Pubs, clubs, social life closing down."

And if drink-driving laws are harmonised across the EU, he adds indignantly, lowering the legal alcohol limit even further:

"Anybody who goes to a rural pub on a Sunday lunchtime will be in breach of the law."

certainly "talking" about it, but maybe NF thinks it would be a policy too far

 

 

he was talking about it because he was specifically asked about it....

Yes I agree that he probably thinks its a step too much and there are bigger fish to fry. There's so much that needs changing that you can only do a bit at a time

 

A quick cut out and keep memo for those saying UKIP has only one or two policies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22396690

 

EFA

 

Although the BBC are woefully behind, UKIP have now won 100 seats! Looks like my prediction was spot on!

 

I never vote,,never have but think I may give UKIP a go.
Weather you vote labour cons or libs is doesnt matter because "we" the people will always get fooked one way or another by the main three!
Fact of the matter is "we" the people have had enough of governments that can't be trusted and today's votes are proving that!!!
Cameron,clegg and co are the biggest criminals in the uk.

 

So what are the good bits then?
Last time I checked the UK doesn't have "uncontrolled" immigration. However it suits your view to define it so, then argue against a false situation of your invention.

The 1m young people aren't unemployed because of immigrants. They're mostly unemployed because:
- they have no/low skills,
- our failure to educate them suitably,
- their heighten expectations towards their employability: "I'm not doing no immigrant job."
- the mis-management of our economy,
- Tory Chancellor's drive for 'small' government (under cover of deficit reduction) above stimulating demand and growth,
- our pathetic record on exports,
- Britain no longer has a empire to subsidise it's lifestyle but always wanted to live/spend as if it still has ...

I could go on.

And culture! That's rich coming from the country that imposed it's culture on a quarter of the world by force (it was called the Empire). One that continues to invade and bomb and fund to spread its culture of democracy and equal rights.

This site's full of English culture (warts and all). Which aspect exactly is under threat?

Immigrant = crime.
That's new. Never heard that before in an immigration debate.
I suppose that's just stereo-typing, not r*cist really. Sorry, I keep forgetting: not allowed to use the R-word.

Sorry.

 

yes, i did understand he was speaking "off the record" somewhat, but i thought the exchange an interesting insight to his thinking

in terms of well ventilated smoking rooms in pubs, I am not convinced this would have much support in the country at large

maybe in certain (deprived) inner city areas and back of beyond rural areas

but I could be wrong on that

 

We have totally open borders to all EU member countries (let's not call them states!), which as it stands our government is powerless to change. We can't even expel immigrants who our own government have declared a danger to the nation.

Is that what you mean by controlled?

 

Well we have a system to test it called the ballot box. Lets see shall we?

 

Bringing in skilled people who contribute their skills, labour and education to the country. Whats your take?

As RRGM has pointed out above, any EU citizen can come and live here. Like the Polish did in 2004 onwards for example. Last census put them at over 0.5m. We don't get a say in that so that makes it uncontrolled immigration. Better check again

Yes I agree with a lot of those, but the point still stands, why import cheap labour whilst we pay our own young people to sit around? Stop the immigration and get them into work!

Hmmm!

Well the issue of the UKs involvement in Gulf wars for example and the decisions of the Gvmt of that day are a whole new thread on its own

Your sneering doesn't make it false though! Try addressing the issue. The Polish didn't cause much crime, the Romanians are. Simple figures tell that story, nothing to do with stereotypes. What's the problem with discussing that, and whether its something we are all happy to continue?

 

Can't disagree with that and it now looks like a lot of others feel the same way.

Les

 

I am sure Winston McKenzie would be welcome being one of the party loonies. He has after all been a member of every major party in the land and did collect a massive 1.1% of votes in Tottenham last time around

dl

 

rumour has it nigel farage has promised to buy cameron a coffee so he can wake up and smell it lmfao

 

Yes I agree with a lot of those, but the point still stands, why import cheap labour whilst we pay our own young people to sit around? Stop the immigration and get them into work!
the simple answer to this is that those immigrants are prepared to work for £6.20 per hour and a lot of the uk workfore are not,

 

What makes me laugh about the results is the comments from the other parties about how UKIP have done so well because people are casting their votes as "protest votes". If this is the case, Maybe the other parties should sit back and take a look at why this is!! So people have apparently taken to "protest voting" I.e protesting against the other parties.......perhaps that most of the population is fed up of the same old stuff.

UKIP have quite obviously chosen a subject that people feel extremely strongly about (me included) and have pretty much based their current stance around that one subject. I was listening to LBC (extremely popular radio station - Londons Biggest Conversation) and people were phoning in and saying that, basically, they didn't know anything about UKIP except for their immigration policy, and that's why they voted for them.

 

 

'Europe/EU' doesn't even figure in the 'Top 10 of issues facing Britain':

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpu...ues-Index.aspx

'Europe', truth be told is really just the immigration debate in a smart frock.

I promise I won't call you a racist. (Though I'm not sure whose blushes your trying to spare).

I haven't read anything in this thread that hasn't been said before.

Let me hear what it is you want to say in this 'proper immigration debate' that you can't/haven't been able to say.

 

Who have you asked? Who has been asked and by whom? If I was asked, I'd tell you I'm anti-EU.

 

... and any Brit can live, work and do business in any EU country.

When I last checked, estimates showed 0.75M Brits living in Spain, 0.35M living in France. I can't remember the figures for Portugal, Italy, etc but around 6% of the population of the Cyprus, from where I'm writing this, is British. So who's doing the EU migration then?


No stereotyping, then!

You said there was a problem. I didn't.

So this anti-EU thing, is it really about immigration?

 

You couldn't be more wrong. And its the EU by the way not Europe. When asked what they think of EU membership the majority want out. Yes the poll may say its not top of voters current concerns, but it has a massive impact of ALL of UK life

Dunno about everyone else, but I have already said why uncontrolled immigration is bad for this country. Why don't you tell us why you think thats wrong, since you apparently disagree?

 

I get IPSIS MORI to ask. They're better than me at polling opinion.
My post above refers.

 

Are you sure?

I think Jamaican born immigrant Winston will be well pleased about that!

Come on Dave, make your mind up!