Originally Posted by Leslie

All I can say Jacko is that now that religion is fading into the background, we are seeing more and more vicious and violent behaviour as well a big deterioration in thought for other people in general.

In answer to your question, you just have to extend the effects of what I decribed above.

Les

Originally Posted by J4CKO

Les, that is not due to religion, that is down to the rise of the underclass, alcohol abuse, a reduction in standards and the realisation that there is no real deterrent, I am not even sure it has changed, crime has gone down of late. My dad is Catholic and used to get some serious violence as a kid of Nuns and Monks who ran his school. We have a large immigrant population that we didnt have back then and I think a lot of violence comes from peoples who come from countries where life is cheap and violence commonplace.

Also, things are more open now, news spreads across the net in seconds so we are exposed to more things than we would be when it was our towns newspaper and the six o clock news on telly.

I dont think violent films or games make any difference, in American the mass shootings are simply down to people having access to guns, no guns, no mass shootings.

Originally Posted by Geezer

Forgiveness is wrong? Depends entirely on your viewpoint and what is being forgiven. If somone abducted, raped and then murdered one of my children, then no, I wouldn't forgive them. Ever. I would consider it wrong for them to seek forgiveness. I don't care how much they repent, how much time they served, even if thery were executed as a result of their crime, they would not have paid enough for that crime in my eyes.

However, I forgive people all the time for various things. It's too simplistic to say forgivess etc. is wrong or right.

On the point of Christianism though, what I object to is the abdication of responsibility in this life because of the promise of forgiveness when you die just because you repented your sins and basically kissed Jesus' ***.

It's little more than a protection racket - pay homage to me and you'll be ok, don't and you're in for an eternity of punishment. Makes Al Capone look angelic.

Of course there are touchy feely things in the new testament about loving your brother, turning the other cheek etc, but the central theme remains distinctly unpleasant.

I hope that answers your question.

Geezer

Originally Posted by hodgy0_2

indeed Catholicism seems to give people opportunity of carrying on this sin/repent charade on a weekly basis

abuse a child all thru the week -- repent on saturday confessional, where they are no doubt "truly sorry" then ask for, and receive forgiveness (repeat as desired, or until you get caught)

maybe because the clergy are so intune with the whole workings of this they leverage it to their best advantage (sadly for so many young children)

Originally Posted by Leslie

I can't find much to disagree with in your post Jacko, but I still feel that a great proportion of that troublesesome behaviour is due to the almost total lack of religious influence these days. That used to have a much larger calming effect than one might imagine.

Les

Originally Posted by J4CKO

Les, think there may be something in it, but it is fear that kept it down, people dont have anyone to answer to, perhaps religion gave that but the legal system should have more teeth, replace that fire and brimstone with proper consequences.