The Catholic Church
06 March 2013, 10:49 AM
#32
Religion has been the cause of war, and many other evil atrocities throughout the centuries. Its still going on today with the Muslim extremists.
Throughout history, a countless number people have been murdered, all in the name of religion. The Spanish inquisition being just one example.
Then there is the http://www.evilbible.com/ This website exposes the bible for what it really is.
Throughout history, a countless number people have been murdered, all in the name of religion. The Spanish inquisition being just one example.
Then there is the http://www.evilbible.com/ This website exposes the bible for what it really is.
06 March 2013, 11:19 AM
#33
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the fact that humanity cannot judge them, and their actions - in the "here and now" on earth, they can only be judged and forgiven by some divine being
they reject the very concept of humanity
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 06 March 2013 at 11:30 AM.
06 March 2013, 12:27 PM
#34
If all religion ceased today, what would be the difference ?
B and Q would be busier on Sunday morning ?
Why cant people get together on a Sunday and do something constructive as a community, have a chat about morality and a sing song without having to swallow all the mumbo jumbo ?
The Church is dying out, go to one its only old folk and the odd nutjob, they know this, the only new recruits are in the third world as they dotn know any better or those born into religous families.
B and Q would be busier on Sunday morning ?
Why cant people get together on a Sunday and do something constructive as a community, have a chat about morality and a sing song without having to swallow all the mumbo jumbo ?
The Church is dying out, go to one its only old folk and the odd nutjob, they know this, the only new recruits are in the third world as they dotn know any better or those born into religous families.
06 March 2013, 12:45 PM
#35
You can seek forgiveness, but how will you ever know you've been forgiven? Besides, God is also evil; since God created everything, he also created evil, how malevolent of him/her/it. Good way of capturing your audience!
06 March 2013, 01:04 PM
#36
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What amused me on this subject was just after the Cardinal O'Brien coughed for "offending" people (BBC), the Beeb included a comment from a young lady in Edinburgh (I think it was the 10 O'Clock News on Sunday). She said she didn't believe he'd done any wrong, it was all made up and the truth would come out (despite the statement from him that day!) 
06 March 2013, 02:05 PM
#37
Originally Posted by scunnered;11014781
[URL="http://www.evilbible.com/"
[URL="http://www.evilbible.com/"
http://www.evilbible.com/[/URL] This website exposes the bible for what it really is.
I only managed the first paragraph, no wonder they are a bunch of fruitcakes.I do love the way the defenders of the faith try and make the Non-believiers explain themselves and their doubts,
when the're the ones that need to be doing the explaining.Religion; what a load of nonsense because of which so much evil is perpetrated, when opposing evil is meant to be it's purpose,
no surprise there is a contradiction there, as all denominations are full of contradiction, how any otherwise seemingly intelligent person can follow it completely baffles me.
06 March 2013, 02:23 PM
#38
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Forgiveness is wrong? Seeking forgiveness is wrong? Forgiving is wrong? Repentance and contrition are wrong? Paying penance is wrong? The desire for absolution is wrong?
Would you be good enough to elucidate a little, Geezer? I'm interested in your reasoning and seeing the kind of place from whence it emanates.
Would you be good enough to elucidate a little, Geezer? I'm interested in your reasoning and seeing the kind of place from whence it emanates.
However, I forgive people all the time for various things. It's too simplistic to say forgivess etc. is wrong or right.
On the point of Christianism though, what I object to is the abdication of responsibility in this life because of the promise of forgiveness when you die just because you repented your sins and basically kissed Jesus' ***.
It's little more than a protection racket - pay homage to me and you'll be ok, don't and you're in for an eternity of punishment. Makes Al Capone look angelic.
Of course there are touchy feely things in the new testament about loving your brother, turning the other cheek etc, but the central theme remains distinctly unpleasant.
I hope that answers your question.
Geezer
06 March 2013, 02:48 PM
#39
06 March 2013, 02:59 PM
#40
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Forgiveness is wrong? Depends entirely on your viewpoint and what is being forgiven. If somone abducted, raped and then murdered one of my children, then no, I wouldn't forgive them. Ever. I would consider it wrong for them to seek forgiveness. I don't care how much they repent, how much time they served, even if thery were executed as a result of their crime, they would not have paid enough for that crime in my eyes.
However, I forgive people all the time for various things. It's too simplistic to say forgivess etc. is wrong or right.
On the point of Christianism though, what I object to is the abdication of responsibility in this life because of the promise of forgiveness when you die just because you repented your sins and basically kissed Jesus' ***.
It's little more than a protection racket - pay homage to me and you'll be ok, don't and you're in for an eternity of punishment. Makes Al Capone look angelic.
Of course there are touchy feely things in the new testament about loving your brother, turning the other cheek etc, but the central theme remains distinctly unpleasant.
I hope that answers your question.
Geezer
However, I forgive people all the time for various things. It's too simplistic to say forgivess etc. is wrong or right.
On the point of Christianism though, what I object to is the abdication of responsibility in this life because of the promise of forgiveness when you die just because you repented your sins and basically kissed Jesus' ***.
It's little more than a protection racket - pay homage to me and you'll be ok, don't and you're in for an eternity of punishment. Makes Al Capone look angelic.
Of course there are touchy feely things in the new testament about loving your brother, turning the other cheek etc, but the central theme remains distinctly unpleasant.
I hope that answers your question.
Geezer
abuse a child all thru the week -- repent on saturday confessional, where they are no doubt "truly sorry" then ask for, and receive forgiveness (repeat as desired, or until you get caught)
maybe because the clergy are so intune with the whole workings of this they leverage it to their best advantage (sadly for so many young children)
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 06 March 2013 at 03:01 PM.
06 March 2013, 04:18 PM
#41
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Besides, God is also evil; since God created everything, he also created evil, how malevolent of him/her/it. Good way of capturing your audience!
06 March 2013, 04:27 PM
#42
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Forgiveness is wrong? Depends entirely on your viewpoint and what is being forgiven. If somone abducted, raped and then murdered one of my children, then no, I wouldn't forgive them. Ever. I would consider it wrong for them to seek forgiveness. I don't care how much they repent, how much time they served, even if thery were executed as a result of their crime, they would not have paid enough for that crime in my eyes.
However, I forgive people all the time for various things. It's too simplistic to say forgivess etc. is wrong or right.
On the point of Christianism though, what I object to is the abdication of responsibility in this life because of the promise of forgiveness when you die just because you repented your sins and basically kissed Jesus' ***.
It's little more than a protection racket - pay homage to me and you'll be ok, don't and you're in for an eternity of punishment. Makes Al Capone look angelic.
Of course there are touchy feely things in the new testament about loving your brother, turning the other cheek etc, but the central theme remains distinctly unpleasant.
I hope that answers your question.
Geezer
However, I forgive people all the time for various things. It's too simplistic to say forgivess etc. is wrong or right.
On the point of Christianism though, what I object to is the abdication of responsibility in this life because of the promise of forgiveness when you die just because you repented your sins and basically kissed Jesus' ***.
It's little more than a protection racket - pay homage to me and you'll be ok, don't and you're in for an eternity of punishment. Makes Al Capone look angelic.
Of course there are touchy feely things in the new testament about loving your brother, turning the other cheek etc, but the central theme remains distinctly unpleasant.
I hope that answers your question.
Geezer
06 March 2013, 04:57 PM
#44
We here's a paradox, since God is all knowing and all controlling and knows what I do in advance is this my free will or the will of God?
06 March 2013, 09:10 PM
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07 March 2013, 03:42 PM
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If all religion ceased today, what would be the difference ?
B and Q would be busier on Sunday morning ?
Why cant people get together on a Sunday and do something constructive as a community, have a chat about morality and a sing song without having to swallow all the mumbo jumbo ?
The Church is dying out, go to one its only old folk and the odd nutjob, they know this, the only new recruits are in the third world as they dotn know any better or those born into religous families.
B and Q would be busier on Sunday morning ?
Why cant people get together on a Sunday and do something constructive as a community, have a chat about morality and a sing song without having to swallow all the mumbo jumbo ?
The Church is dying out, go to one its only old folk and the odd nutjob, they know this, the only new recruits are in the third world as they dotn know any better or those born into religous families.
In answer to your question, you just have to extend the effects of what I decribed above.
Les
08 March 2013, 11:08 AM
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All I can say Jacko is that now that religion is fading into the background, we are seeing more and more vicious and violent behaviour as well a big deterioration in thought for other people in general.
In answer to your question, you just have to extend the effects of what I decribed above.
Les
In answer to your question, you just have to extend the effects of what I decribed above.
Les
Life leading up to the end of the Victorian age was harsh, mean, uncaring and often a lot more violent than now. Enlightenment, rather than religion, improved life. We are just returning to type, I'm afraid.
Geezer
08 March 2013, 11:21 AM
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08 March 2013, 11:36 AM
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08 March 2013, 06:05 PM
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Catholic teachings endeavour to get its followers to lead what we might call a good life both in the way they behave and their attitude towards others. just as in any other Christian religion as well as others. The Church also produces ways to follow the religion and as a follower you would be expected to do that as a good catholic.
There is nothing wrong with all that since it means that if someone can do all that then they should be living their life setting a good example to as well as helping others.
The Church knows full well that people are fallible and that to follow all those teachings would be pretty well impossible. It therefore has provision for catholics to repent and seek forgiveness when they get it wrong.
The Church cannot be criticised for its attempts to help people to live in such a way that they do good and help others less fortunate than themselves.
When people,including priests stray from the path, it is not the fault of Catholic teachings but it is all down to the person concerned. The teachings would never state that anyone is free to go against them and if the person does stray then that person is responsible for committing the offence concerned.
Nothing is perfect of course and there are enough suggestions such as allowing priests to marry thereby removing the need to be celibate and thus making it less likely that advantage is taken of young people. It is not difficult to imagine how difficult it must be for a priest to remain celibate all his life as a priest. This sort of situation is all down to the religion's requirements and it is up to the religion to decide what to do about that.
It is unfair to criticise the religion out of hand without a full knowledge of its teachings and the reasons for them. That would go for other religions too of course.
If you are an atheist then you must follow your own beliefs as your conscience dictates but it is unecessary to run down someone who might think differently to you.
Les
There is nothing wrong with all that since it means that if someone can do all that then they should be living their life setting a good example to as well as helping others.
The Church knows full well that people are fallible and that to follow all those teachings would be pretty well impossible. It therefore has provision for catholics to repent and seek forgiveness when they get it wrong.
The Church cannot be criticised for its attempts to help people to live in such a way that they do good and help others less fortunate than themselves.
When people,including priests stray from the path, it is not the fault of Catholic teachings but it is all down to the person concerned. The teachings would never state that anyone is free to go against them and if the person does stray then that person is responsible for committing the offence concerned.
Nothing is perfect of course and there are enough suggestions such as allowing priests to marry thereby removing the need to be celibate and thus making it less likely that advantage is taken of young people. It is not difficult to imagine how difficult it must be for a priest to remain celibate all his life as a priest. This sort of situation is all down to the religion's requirements and it is up to the religion to decide what to do about that.
It is unfair to criticise the religion out of hand without a full knowledge of its teachings and the reasons for them. That would go for other religions too of course.
If you are an atheist then you must follow your own beliefs as your conscience dictates but it is unecessary to run down someone who might think differently to you.
Les
12 March 2013, 05:11 PM
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You say this quite a lot Les, but come on, life was much more violent in the past. You comee from an age where people were drawn together in the aftermath of two World Wars.
Life leading up to the end of the Victorian age was harsh, mean, uncaring and often a lot more violent than now. Enlightenment, rather than religion, improved life. We are just returning to type, I'm afraid.
Geezer
Life leading up to the end of the Victorian age was harsh, mean, uncaring and often a lot more violent than now. Enlightenment, rather than religion, improved life. We are just returning to type, I'm afraid.
Geezer
The period after the war was in fact pretty peaceful as far as the people were concerned. It was part of peoples' ideals to think of others and to be quick to help those with problems. The selfish attitudes we see so much of these days would not be tolerated by the vast majority. The Victorian attitudes were mainly coupled with good discipline especially as far as children were concerned. There was nothing wrong with that.
Les
Les