Scottish Independence
1. do you agree that westminster are trying to privatize the english NHS?
No that is demonstrably nonsense, the NHS is funded by the taxpayer, the day it isn't then you can tell me it's been privatised.
2. do you agree that the bedroom tax was designed to hit the poorest of the country
Quick but very important semantic point the 'bedroom tax' is in fact the exact opposite of a tax.
Do I agree with the policy, no not really
3.do you agree OAP's probably wouldnt of been freezing to death during winter if westminster and thatcher had not sold of public services for there own gains?
Yes of course I agree that OAPs should freeze to death
4. do you agree charging for further education make things harder for the poor in the nation to get educated
No what I think is unfair is poor working class people funding the higher education of the middle classes, which is what the old system resulted in.
5. do you agree with that westminster target budget cuts to the disabled the weakest and most vulnerable of our society
I'm not sure I'd use the word 'target'.
In straightforward money terms it's the middle class have been 'targeted' as shown by the huge fall in disposable income
6. do you agree that westminster dragged the uk into 1 trillion of debt and dont say that scotland had a part to play in that as westminster makes the decisions.
Do you understand the irony of what you are saying here?
On one hand you are castigating Westminster for creating a huge debt, and on the other criticising them for not spending enough.
The bottom-line here is that the money is spent, the government spent it on you and me. This is as much Scotlands issue as it is Westminsters, as you will undoubtedly find out if you ever have the misfortune to live in the socialist republic of Scotland
7. can you straight faced disagree with any of this
Mostly yes
No that is demonstrably nonsense, the NHS is funded by the taxpayer, the day it isn't then you can tell me it's been privatised.
2. do you agree that the bedroom tax was designed to hit the poorest of the country
Quick but very important semantic point the 'bedroom tax' is in fact the exact opposite of a tax.
Do I agree with the policy, no not really
3.do you agree OAP's probably wouldnt of been freezing to death during winter if westminster and thatcher had not sold of public services for there own gains?
Yes of course I agree that OAPs should freeze to death
4. do you agree charging for further education make things harder for the poor in the nation to get educated
No what I think is unfair is poor working class people funding the higher education of the middle classes, which is what the old system resulted in.
5. do you agree with that westminster target budget cuts to the disabled the weakest and most vulnerable of our society
I'm not sure I'd use the word 'target'.
In straightforward money terms it's the middle class have been 'targeted' as shown by the huge fall in disposable income
6. do you agree that westminster dragged the uk into 1 trillion of debt and dont say that scotland had a part to play in that as westminster makes the decisions.
Do you understand the irony of what you are saying here?
On one hand you are castigating Westminster for creating a huge debt, and on the other criticising them for not spending enough.
The bottom-line here is that the money is spent, the government spent it on you and me. This is as much Scotlands issue as it is Westminsters, as you will undoubtedly find out if you ever have the misfortune to live in the socialist republic of Scotland
7. can you straight faced disagree with any of this
Mostly yes
OK
1, why are people protesting to save the NHS from privatization and even the no campaign leader Alistair Darling got paid 10k for attending and speaking at a privatizing NHS meeting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28522286
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...n-plan-1729681
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21649307
remember my answer to you being blind well I concrete that comment about you
now take your head out of the clouds and relises whats happening around you FFS !
2, ok you agree on this
3, I didnt ask you if it you think OAP's should freeze did I ! I asked you if the electricity hadn't been privatized that OAP's would still be freezing to death,,,, jesus christ you can read but struggle to understand a sentences meaning
4, so the old system which was free to everybody who wanted to learn was the poor paying for the middle class to get further education is that what you are trying to say martin ?
5, everybody has been effected and the disabled have been hit hard on cuts again take your head out of the clouds
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...l-hit-disabled
6, do I understand the irony,,, do you even know what you are talking about ?
well maybe if westminster hadnt sold off public services we would have that income pouring into the tressurey and didnt get into nasty wars over other countrys resources and blame it on terrorist threats
which a english foreign ambassador recently went on to admit on camera !
or give compancys like costa coffee ways to earn millions and millions and pay no tax on there earnings and this is just a case of one company there are hundreds of companys operating in the uk doing this while the minimal wage worker is paying tax on his little wages working for these tax dodgers !
7, thats because you dont have a clue and blindly accept whats going on around you
Last edited by nizmo80; Sep 6, 2014 at 10:58 PM.
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From: K
I don't think there's any reason to believe that an independent Scotland can't work, I've not said it can't.
Indeed a Salmond SNP administration would not necessarily be in power there for long.
I think the history of the world tells us though that socialism doesn't necessarily deliver what it's supposed to
Indeed a Salmond SNP administration would not necessarily be in power there for long.
I think the history of the world tells us though that socialism doesn't necessarily deliver what it's supposed to
Last edited by hodgy0_2; Sep 6, 2014 at 10:50 PM.
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I don't think there's any reason to believe that an independent Scotland can't work, I've not said it can't.
Indeed a Salmond SNP administration would not necessarily be in power there for long.
I think the history of the world tells us though that socialism doesn't necessarily deliver what it's supposed to
Indeed a Salmond SNP administration would not necessarily be in power there for long.
I think the history of the world tells us though that socialism doesn't necessarily deliver what it's supposed to
Last edited by JTaylor; Sep 6, 2014 at 11:57 PM.
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About the deficit why did the financial time state scotland would be better off from day one then ?
Surely they have access to much better information than you do to the financials in scotland and teams of people trained to Annalise it as well
or are you going to post the same link again
Surely they have access to much better information than you do to the financials in scotland and teams of people trained to Annalise it as well
or are you going to post the same link again
5 Reasons Why Scottish Independence Would Be An Economic Disaster
Like I said, for every publication for independence there will be one against it. If you think the FT article valid, well then the Forbes article is equally valid.
You asked whether I would blame you for wanting independence, well, would you blame the No camp for wanting to remain with the UK? I understand why you want independence, most of it is all laid out in your post in #677, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with you. You've read my post to your points made in that post, obviously you don't agree with them or like what I posted, do I blame you for that, no I don't.
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From: K
5 Reasons Why Scottish Independence Would Be An Economic Disaster
Like I said, for every publication for independence there will be one against it. If you think the FT article valid, well then the Forbes article is equally valid.
Opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one
Last edited by hodgy0_2; Sep 6, 2014 at 11:08 PM.
OK what has anything that is happening to me where I live got anything to do with Independence for Scotland? It's obvious I don't live in Scotland. What opinion do you expect me to have, for example, with regards to bedroom tax affecting me where I live have any relevence with my opinions for independence in Scotland?
Now you're just contricting yourself. How will Westminster's policies affect an independent Scotland if Westminster would have no say to implementing them in Scotland?
The point you made to me in your original post was to the outcome if there was a accident with Trident so I responded to that!!
Why? for the same reasons why Forbes would think it would be an economic disaster.
5 Reasons Why Scottish Independence Would Be An Economic Disaster
Like I said, for every publication for independence there will be one against it. If you think the FT article valid, well then the Forbes article is equally valid.
You asked whether I would blame you for wanting independence, well, would you blame the No camp for wanting to remain with the UK? I understand why you want independence, most of it is all laid out in your post in #677, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with you. You've read my post to your points made in that post, obviously you don't agree with them or like what I posted, do I blame you for that, no I don't.
Now you're just contricting yourself. How will Westminster's policies affect an independent Scotland if Westminster would have no say to implementing them in Scotland?
The point you made to me in your original post was to the outcome if there was a accident with Trident so I responded to that!!
Why? for the same reasons why Forbes would think it would be an economic disaster.
5 Reasons Why Scottish Independence Would Be An Economic Disaster
Like I said, for every publication for independence there will be one against it. If you think the FT article valid, well then the Forbes article is equally valid.
You asked whether I would blame you for wanting independence, well, would you blame the No camp for wanting to remain with the UK? I understand why you want independence, most of it is all laid out in your post in #677, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with you. You've read my post to your points made in that post, obviously you don't agree with them or like what I posted, do I blame you for that, no I don't.
everything really as we are not independent yet and really its a 50/50 chance at present for a yes.
and if a no vote does go through we are at the mercy of westminster
for instance the bedroom tax was opposed by scottish MP's but we did not have the power to stop it,
the NHS in scotland cant be privatized by westminster but they can cut the funding massively putting the NHS in scotland in a strangle hold.
Ok fair point on nuclear questions
hodgy beat me to it on the forbes article
I dont blame the no party voters but I sure as hell blame the leaders of that party for being self serving liars
I actually do value your opinions Jonc so dont think other wise
and you do have opinions on scotland which is not your country and is my country
but I wanted to know your opinions on your own country as well as having opinions on mine
Last edited by nizmo80; Sep 6, 2014 at 11:34 PM.
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I see a future for an independent Scotland, and if I were Scottish (as some of my ancestors were) I'd consider a YES vote, but I'd be looking for a Nordic model of governance as opposed to the far-left Trojan horse that is the SNP. Anyway, if the YES vote wins (which as a Unionist I hope it doesn't), and the SNP hold on to power, history will prove what they are. Perhaps they'll do a New Labour and move to the centre ground once drunk on real power, or perhaps they'll remain loyal to their Group 79 routes and usher-in a scheme of re-nationalisation. I hope for Nizmo's sake that if the latter is the outcome then it proves successful.
I hope so too JT
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From: K
Ok, does this work for you?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...to-Greece.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...to-Greece.html
He simply opines
"We are therefore left with one over-riding question about Scottish separation: beyond bravado and grandstanding by a small cadre of senior politicians, what precisely is the point of it"
The whole currency issue, is a non issue within the confines of he debate/argument around Scottish independence
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my point is you didnt answer them properly or were totally wrong or would you like to just blurt out bo0llox again.
I blew holes in your feeble answers and backed what I wrote up as well
you dont have the mental capacity to come back with anything of substance
THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM RIGHT THERE !
Last edited by nizmo80; Sep 7, 2014 at 12:03 AM.
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my point is you didnt answer them properly or were totally wrong or would you like to just blurt out bo0llox again.
I blew holes in your feeble answers and backed what I wrote up as well
you dont have the mental capacity to come back with anything of substance
THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM RIGHT THERE !
I blew holes in your feeble answers and backed what I wrote up as well
you dont have the mental capacity to come back with anything of substance
THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM RIGHT THERE !
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28522286
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...n-plan-1729681
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21649307
so the old system which was free to everybody who wanted to learn was the poor paying for the middle class to get further education is that what you are trying to say martin
PMSL at this one real bright spark of knowledge you are
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...l-hit-disabled
Do you understand the irony of what you are saying here?
On one hand you are castigating Westminster for creating a huge debt, and on the other criticising them for not spending enough.
The bottom-line here is that the money is spent, the government spent it on you and me. This is as much Scotlands issue as it is Westminsters, as you will undoubtedly find out if you ever have the misfortune to live in the socialist republic of Scotland
On one hand you are castigating Westminster for creating a huge debt, and on the other criticising them for not spending enough.
The bottom-line here is that the money is spent, the government spent it on you and me. This is as much Scotlands issue as it is Westminsters, as you will undoubtedly find out if you ever have the misfortune to live in the socialist republic of Scotland
which I replied
do I understand the irony,,, do you even know what you are talking about ?
well maybe if westminster hadnt sold off public services we would have that income pouring into the tressurey and didnt get into nasty wars over other countrys resources and blame it on terrorist threats
which a english foreign ambassador recently went on to admit on camera !
or give compancys like costa coffee ways to earn millions and millions and pay no tax on there earnings and this is just a case of one company there are hundreds of companys operating in the uk doing this while the minimal wage worker is paying tax on his little wages working for these tax dodgers !
C'mon martin whats your take on this can you even deny this c'mon I genuinely want to know
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didnt say it is privatized what I said was westminster is trying to privatise it !
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28522286
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...n-plan-1729681
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21649307
I didnt ask you if it you think OAP's should freeze did I ! I asked you if the electricity hadn't been privatized that OAP's would still be freezing to death
so the old system which was free to everybody who wanted to learn was the poor paying for the middle class to get further education is that what you are trying to say martin
PMSL at this one real bright spark of knowledge you are
proof right here
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...l-hit-disabled
which I replied
do I understand the irony,,, do you even know what you are talking about ?
well maybe if westminster hadnt sold off public services we would have that income pouring into the tressurey and didnt get into nasty wars over other countrys resources and blame it on terrorist threats
which a english foreign ambassador recently went on to admit on camera !
or give compancys like costa coffee ways to earn millions and millions and pay no tax on there earnings and this is just a case of one company there are hundreds of companys operating in the uk doing this while the minimal wage worker is paying tax on his little wages working for these tax dodgers !
C'mon martin whats your take on this can you even deny this c'mon I genuinely want to know
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28522286
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...n-plan-1729681
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21649307
I didnt ask you if it you think OAP's should freeze did I ! I asked you if the electricity hadn't been privatized that OAP's would still be freezing to death
so the old system which was free to everybody who wanted to learn was the poor paying for the middle class to get further education is that what you are trying to say martin
PMSL at this one real bright spark of knowledge you are
proof right here
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...l-hit-disabled
which I replied
do I understand the irony,,, do you even know what you are talking about ?
well maybe if westminster hadnt sold off public services we would have that income pouring into the tressurey and didnt get into nasty wars over other countrys resources and blame it on terrorist threats
which a english foreign ambassador recently went on to admit on camera !
or give compancys like costa coffee ways to earn millions and millions and pay no tax on there earnings and this is just a case of one company there are hundreds of companys operating in the uk doing this while the minimal wage worker is paying tax on his little wages working for these tax dodgers !
C'mon martin whats your take on this can you even deny this c'mon I genuinely want to know
His position on this is totally disingenuous
Student fees - people who work pay taxes right? In the old system the government paid out grants to students out of taxpayers contributions, right? Therefore de facto people who never went to uni and were earning low wages were paying for much more privileged to go to uni. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp is it?
Privatised utilities - are you trying to tell me that utilities were being well run prior to privatisation? That would be a truly incredible rewriting of history. Do I agree with the way they conduct themselves since privatisation? No. But let's not kid ourselves into believing that the government (yes those 'snakes' in Westminster) are best placed to run industries
NHS - Any party that tried to privatise the NHS would be routed at the ballot box and out of power for a generation. The argument Salmond is using is simply a lie. He knows full well the NHS is not going to be privatised. That is a cold hard fact.
yea explain why during the privatization of electricity, gas, transport and royal mail the responsible partys were left still in power ?why are there protests going on in london against NHS privatisation
why are doctors and nurses coming out of the woodwork voicing there concerns on this matter
and why are the news reporting on it as well !
Student fees - people who work pay taxes right? In the old system the government paid out grants to students out of taxpayers contributions, right? Therefore de facto people who never went to uni and were earning low wages were paying for much more privileged to go to uni. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp is it?
a grant is money to help with your living while going through further education
Tuition fees are you paying to attend college which is free in scotland but not in england
like scotland there used to be no tuition fee on further education
and I remember the day that westminster put a stop to that and students were applying to get into scottish colleges
I am grasping things just fine unfortunatly the same cannot be said for you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuition_fees_in_the_United_Kingdom
Privatised utilities - are you trying to tell me that utilities were being well run prior to privatisation? That would be a truly incredible rewriting of history. Do I agree with the way they conduct themselves since privatisation? No. But let's not kid ourselves into believing that the government (yes those 'snakes' in Westminster) are best placed to run industries
didnt have a problem with it back then either now did we as there was no change in quality of service from then to now
and it produced a revenue to the economy straight into the treasury
Last edited by nizmo80; Sep 7, 2014 at 01:07 AM.
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[QUOTE]
you're just being dopey now, there was a prospectus for those sales, they were in manifestos, people voted for it,they were largely popular. The NHS is a sacred cow, there is no chance whatsoever of it being privatised. I repeat one more time IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN
They are not protesting because there are cash registers in the wards, even though that seems to be what you are implying is going to happen.
For clarity what do you actually mean by NHS privatisation?
Without fail whenever anybody tries to change anything in NHS, Schools, Defence etc. there are vested interests that will protest, that has always happened, and will no doubt continue. This does not mean that the NHS is going to be privatised.
Last time I saw this on the news it was seeing Salmonds lies on this getting properly shown up
And who would pay if tuition fees didn't exist? Yes everyone else, regardless of means. So as I said de-facto the poor end up subsidising the better off
I don't even understand what you are saying here. But presumably you mean we'd have lower bills, however that would mean that the money wouldn't be 'pouring in'.
Also you do realise that these same utilities made a healthy loss when they were public entities?
why are there protests going on in london against NHS privatisation
For clarity what do you actually mean by NHS privatisation?
why are doctors and nurses coming out of the woodwork voicing there concerns on this matter
and why are the news reporting on it as well !
a grant is not a tution fee is it here let me break it down for you
a grant is money to help with your living while going through further education
Tuition fees are you paying to attend college which is free in scotland but not in england
I am grasping things just fine unfortunatly the same cannot be said for you
a grant is money to help with your living while going through further education
Tuition fees are you paying to attend college which is free in scotland but not in england
I am grasping things just fine unfortunatly the same cannot be said for you
yes they were and the prices were not through the roof either like modern days wich affect the poor and the weakest
didnt have a problem with it back then either now did we as there was no change in quality of service from then to now
didnt have a problem with it back then either now did we as there was no change in quality of service from then to now
Also you do realise that these same utilities made a healthy loss when they were public entities?
Last edited by Martin2005; Sep 7, 2014 at 01:22 AM.
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nizmo80 you are attacking westminster a lot. I am starting to feel you have no respect for the challenges that a government have and somehow seem to think that Scottish mp's are in anyway less corrupt than English mp's plus more intelligent.
All mp's are corrupt in someway or another but at least if we stay together the corrupt bàstards will have more fighting power and we can be stronger together.
All mp's are corrupt in someway or another but at least if we stay together the corrupt bàstards will have more fighting power and we can be stronger together.
\[quote=Martin2005;11508911]
hope this is sinking in
you're just being dopey nowthere was a prospectus for those sales, they were in manifestos, they were largely popular. The NHS is a sacred cow, there is no chance whatsoever of it being privatised. I repeat one more time IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN
Oh yea I am positively certain they were popular amongst thatcher and here crew
They are not protesting because there are cash points in the wards, even though that seems to be what you are implying is going to happen.
Without fail whenever anybody tries to change anything in NHS, Schools, Defence etc. there are vested interests that will protest, that has always happened, and will no doubt continue. This does not mean that the NHS is going to be privatised.
even the BBC is reporting on privatization for christ sake
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21649307
Last time I saw this on the news it was seeing Salmonds lies on this getting properly shown up
Ok post the link please or video to that what ever tickles your fancy
And who would pay if tuition fees didn't exist. Yes everyone else, regardless of means or whether they too had been to uni.
If its everyone then its not just the poorest paying for the middle class is it !
its everyone which is not what you said in your original answer
I don't even understand what you are saying here. But presumably you mean we'd have lower bills, however that would mean that the money wouldn't be 'pouring in'
lower bills times how many million people in the UK ?
it would be make mega cash even with lower bills than current bills so yes it would be pouring in you mong
Oh yea I am positively certain they were popular amongst thatcher and here crew
They are not protesting because there are cash points in the wards, even though that seems to be what you are implying is going to happen.
Without fail whenever anybody tries to change anything in NHS, Schools, Defence etc. there are vested interests that will protest, that has always happened, and will no doubt continue. This does not mean that the NHS is going to be privatised.
even the BBC is reporting on privatization for christ sake
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21649307
Last time I saw this on the news it was seeing Salmonds lies on this getting properly shown up
Ok post the link please or video to that what ever tickles your fancy
And who would pay if tuition fees didn't exist. Yes everyone else, regardless of means or whether they too had been to uni.
If its everyone then its not just the poorest paying for the middle class is it !
its everyone which is not what you said in your original answer
I don't even understand what you are saying here. But presumably you mean we'd have lower bills, however that would mean that the money wouldn't be 'pouring in'
lower bills times how many million people in the UK ?
it would be make mega cash even with lower bills than current bills so yes it would be pouring in you mong
hope this is sinking in
Last edited by nizmo80; Sep 7, 2014 at 01:36 AM.
nizmo80 you are attacking westminster a lot. I am starting to feel you have no respect for the challenges that a government have and somehow seem to think that Scottish mp's are in anyway less corrupt than English mp's plus more intelligent.
All mp's are corrupt in someway or another but at least if we stay together the corrupt bàstards will have more fighting power and we can be stronger together.
All mp's are corrupt in someway or another but at least if we stay together the corrupt bàstards will have more fighting power and we can be stronger together.
Oh no mate I do have respect for the challenges a government has to go through
but I will judge them on how they deal with them also.
there is corruption in every government around the world I wont deny it
westminster has had decades to solve there problems with no effect
its time to make changes and for us its independence
I would rather us stay united as we are stronger together seriously I do
but I have no confidence in westminister and think the only way to make the change I want to see is to give SNP the chance to make changes through independence
Last edited by nizmo80; Sep 7, 2014 at 01:34 AM.
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Oh no mate I do have respect for the challenges a government has to go through
but I will judge them on how they deal with them also.
there is corruption in every government around the I wont deny it
westminster has had decades to solve there problems with no effect
its time to make changes and for us its independence
I would rather us stay united as we are stronger together seriously I do
but I have no confidence in westminister and think the only way to make the change I want to see is to give SNP the chance to make changes through independence
but I will judge them on how they deal with them also.
there is corruption in every government around the I wont deny it
westminster has had decades to solve there problems with no effect
its time to make changes and for us its independence
I would rather us stay united as we are stronger together seriously I do
but I have no confidence in westminister and think the only way to make the change I want to see is to give SNP the chance to make changes through independence
You should be getting excited.
Even though I'm apparently a 'mong' I can still be civil and genuinely interested and excited about this issue
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Oh no mate I do have respect for the challenges a government has to go through
but I will judge them on how they deal with them also.
there is corruption in every government around the world I wont deny it
westminster has had decades to solve there problems with no effect
its time to make changes and for us its independence
I would rather us stay united as we are stronger together seriously I do
but I have no confidence in westminister and think the only way to make the change I want to see is to give SNP the chance to make changes through independence
but I will judge them on how they deal with them also.
there is corruption in every government around the world I wont deny it
westminster has had decades to solve there problems with no effect
its time to make changes and for us its independence
I would rather us stay united as we are stronger together seriously I do
but I have no confidence in westminister and think the only way to make the change I want to see is to give SNP the chance to make changes through independence
Well he who dares wins so best of luck but from my point of view I feel like part of my country is being handed away (if yes vote is successful) .
Well the latest poll should be music to your ears then, the latest poll I've just seen has Yes 51% no 49% (excluding the undecided's apparently).
You should be getting excited.
Even though I'm apparently a 'mong' I can still be civil and genuinely interested and excited about this issue
You should be getting excited.
Even though I'm apparently a 'mong' I can still be civil and genuinely interested and excited about this issue
TBH I knew this already but dont want to count my chickens until after the vote,
Look dont take it to heart I know I can be a bit well lets say fiery
please accept my apology
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