honeybadger

...going around a corner fast with a torsion beam rear setup, does indeed look like a dog lifting it's leg to pee.

honeybadger

haha! how old is Pete?

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

independant rear suspension is expensive so they didnt fit it to a car that didnt need it.

its what performance cars have

honeybadger

...a bit off topic, but their latest Type-R has the same rubbish rear suspension.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

yes to keep costs down, the previous version didnt and was a much better handling car.

the japanese version doesnt use the crap suspension set up, there not stupid, they flog the rubbish abroad like the 2.5 engine.

honeybadger

BAHAHAHAHA!! Truer words have never been spoken!!

stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

anyone can produce that HB, so TT and F1

picture of the log book will do

honeybadger

sounds good

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

maybe pslewis will post his power to weight ratio of his car as its a bit of a heavyweight and only has 138 bhp.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Pete is only 5ft tall albeit 20st so that will certainly hinder his power vs weight ratio.

TX.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Why? I have the car in my garage and if you don't believe me I couldn't care less

honeybadger

lol

honeybadger

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Worked for the Peugeot 205 GTi though didn't it, and that was one of the best handling cars of all time

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

it didnt weight 1350kgs though.

look up 205 gti power to weight ratio and then civic diesel power to weight ratio.

the 205 was an 80's car and had 80's suspension too

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Agreed, but the quote was said all torsion suspension was rubbish (no specific weight of car was specified). This isn't the case as the 205 proves, again regardless of age. That's my point even though off topic

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

it is rubbish, fully independent suspension is what performance cars have, torsion bar is fitted because its cheap.

see the reviews of the newer type r civic (this is the performance version) and see what they say about its handling, then read the reviews of the previous one that had the independant rear suspension.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

How can one of the best handling cars have rubbish suspension though? Ie the 205? Independent is probably better as you say but the point I was/will make is it can't be that rubbish if a car which had it fitted (regardless of it being cheaper), was still one of the best handling cars of all time. I wonder how good it would have been if it was fully independent Gurrrd

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

it was a good handling car of its time, its light weight and high power to weight was a major factor in this.
look at all modern day hot hatches, i.e focus st/rs, megane even the new impreza if you wish and see how many run torsion bar suspension.

torsion bar was acceptable in the 80's but as pete keeps pointing out things have moved on, unless you own a honda it would seem.

old technology for old people.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Again, I agree with you. But just dismissing it as rubbish even though it is old hat, well let's say we disagree to put it politely.

Any who, most know Pete is an engineer in his late 40's, early 50's and indeed does have a well paid job. I won't say how I know this but I do as to maintain this Internet persona of his, he's a decent chap really.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

its not rubbish as such its cheap and does the job but as pete keeps telling us he has a performance car im pointing out he doesnt.
it has ONLY 138 bhp, torsion bar rear suspension,tiny brakes and a very low power to weight ratio.

not much i can see in there that makes it a performance car, yes it has good torque as he keeps telling us but it reaches max power at 4000 rpm and the power band is very small.

if he wanted a performance diesel he should have got a bmw or the like, as these run proper suspension and brakes and actually have performance car bhp.

all he is doing is trolling impreza owners with stupid claims about a honda which is just an old peoples run around.

being an engineer maybe he can tell us the advantages of torsion beam over independant as he is not the only engineer on scoobynet and how a low power to weight ratio will effect acceleration.

honeybadger

hahaha...Tommy, you crack me up

pslewis

The discussion of suspension isn't quite in line with this thread .... however, it's my thread and I can expand the subject matter

The advantages of a torsion bar suspension are durability, easy adjustability of ride height, and small profile along the width of the vehicle. It takes up less of the vehicle's interior volume compared to coil springs ... in this way the Honda Civic has a MASSIVE boot space - the Impreza Hatch boot space wouldn't even house my dog!! Yes, I know the AWD takes space, but the suspension does too.

Plenty of performance cars have utilised the Torsion Beam design ... remember, we are talking road cars here!! But, if you wish to know - Porsche used torsion bar suspension for their 911 series from 1963 until 1989 with the introduction of the 964. They are also used in the rear suspension of the 924, 944, and 968. Not performance cars? Do me a favour!!

Most on here keep forgetting real world driving - mostly, we drive from one queue to the next .... the Honda Civic diesel can cover the same ground, in the same time, as an Impreza - but, much, much, much cheaper - and in a far higher quality environment with much more equipment to play with.

You simply cannot lose with a high performance diesel, like the Honda ......

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

so all the performance cars that had it are old cars and as you say performance cars have moved on, unless you own a honda what modern day performance cars use this set up??
the advantages you mention are not performance advantages though are they?? last time i checked boot space doesn't offer any performance advantage at all.
This is because we both know performance and handling wise torsion bar suspension is rubbish.

so whats the power to weight ratio of your car again??

1350kgs and 138 bhp, hardly performance car figures are they

amazing how your arguement has now moved from performance to cost and equipment isnt it? the sti you mention has the same level of equipment as the honda anyway, but has the added advantage of proper brakes and suspension to use the performance.

pslewis

Does the STi have the same equipment?? I'm pretty sure you've got that wrong aswell ..

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

yes it does, you an get all the same features like sat nav and bluetooth phone.

am i wrong about torsion beam suspension being old then and no modern day cars having it??

so whats the power to weight ratio of your performance diesel ???

funny how you avoid this question isnt it???

pslewis

You know something? I cannot remember if the £30,000+ Subaru even has a chilled glovebox ..... don't think it does, the Honda does

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

will this effect its neck snapping acceleration.

once again whats the power to weight ratio of your performance car.

1350kgs is very heavy and 138 bhp is hardly enough to shift it

your neck may have snapped due to the amazing brakes..........

oh no they are tiny too



being an engineer you should know why the subaru is more, it has proper suspension,brakes and drivetrain.
The honda has silly little 2 pot brakes,ancient torsion beam technology rear axle and a wheezy underpowered engine.

this is why its cheap and please explain what effect power to weight ratio has on neck snapping acceleration to those on scoobynet that dont know.

honeybadger

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Let's put it to him then

Although I hazard being the wind up merchant, he'll resort to the 'kiddies' and 'real world driving' comments