RS500 Front Mounts?
26 July 2012, 12:42 PM
#31
Nice photos Banny and another very clean and tidy engine bay.
Hybrid have just updated the XO-1 core which you had to the GT2 X0-1 with a higher flow and thermal efficiency and the GC8 GT2 is taller, similar widths, for different applications.
Here is someone else's take on intercooler size taken from an Autospeed article.
The pressure drop referred to above must be for an older bar and plate.
Hybrid have just updated the XO-1 core which you had to the GT2 X0-1 with a higher flow and thermal efficiency and the GC8 GT2 is taller, similar widths, for different applications.
Here is someone else's take on intercooler size taken from an Autospeed article.
Myth 4: A Huge Intercooler is a Must-Have
When I first started writing about turbo car modification, I pleaded for people to fit bigger intercoolers. In those days, some turbo cars didn’t even have a factory intercooler, and of those that did, nearly all were tiny.
Now the wheel has turned full circle. People fit the most enormous intercoolers they can possibly jam into the front of the car, complete with equally huge plumbing.
There’s nothing wrong with that in itself, but it costs a lot and often requires that the car get hacked about to fit the new core and plumbing. For example, on one car, the front intrusion bar (located behind the plastic bumper) is removed to create room for the core – and that’s not a good idea...
The upgrade intercooler has to do two things – flow enough so that it’s not a restriction of more than (say) 2 psi of full boost, and cool the boosted air. The latter’s kind of obvious, but it needs more examination. In a street driven car, you’re on boost very little of the time. So the intercooler is subject to alternating periods of coolness and hotness. The hotness is often only 10 per cent or less of the total time! Therefore, you need only absorb and store that heat to get rid of it when the engine is off-boost.
Short answer: before deciding you need something humungous, measure the intake air temp and boost pressure present after the standard intercooler. Oftentimes, you don’t need to go as big as you first thought.
When I first started writing about turbo car modification, I pleaded for people to fit bigger intercoolers. In those days, some turbo cars didn’t even have a factory intercooler, and of those that did, nearly all were tiny.
Now the wheel has turned full circle. People fit the most enormous intercoolers they can possibly jam into the front of the car, complete with equally huge plumbing.
There’s nothing wrong with that in itself, but it costs a lot and often requires that the car get hacked about to fit the new core and plumbing. For example, on one car, the front intrusion bar (located behind the plastic bumper) is removed to create room for the core – and that’s not a good idea...
The upgrade intercooler has to do two things – flow enough so that it’s not a restriction of more than (say) 2 psi of full boost, and cool the boosted air. The latter’s kind of obvious, but it needs more examination. In a street driven car, you’re on boost very little of the time. So the intercooler is subject to alternating periods of coolness and hotness. The hotness is often only 10 per cent or less of the total time! Therefore, you need only absorb and store that heat to get rid of it when the engine is off-boost.
Short answer: before deciding you need something humungous, measure the intake air temp and boost pressure present after the standard intercooler. Oftentimes, you don’t need to go as big as you first thought.
08 August 2012, 02:44 PM
#32
I asked the Hybrid Technical Boffin who knows more about intercooling than anyone else I have ever conversed with on the subject regards changing direction of flow or mounting upside down. Here is what he said :
The HDI coolers are design with uni direction and can be mounted upside down. It won't affect the performance
Both coolers have tested from 200 hp car to over 700 hp with great efficiency and performance.
So when I questioned this further he said he did not advocate mounting upside down but the difference in performance was so small it was not worth bothering about.
Having taken an interest in the RS500 core I see it is bar and plate so it will have a higher pressure drop than a well designed tube and fin. It is also thinner depth wise. Not having tested one I cannot comment on performance but back to back testing would certainly be interesting.
The HDI coolers are design with uni direction and can be mounted upside down. It won't affect the performance
Both coolers have tested from 200 hp car to over 700 hp with great efficiency and performance.
So when I questioned this further he said he did not advocate mounting upside down but the difference in performance was so small it was not worth bothering about.
Having taken an interest in the RS500 core I see it is bar and plate so it will have a higher pressure drop than a well designed tube and fin. It is also thinner depth wise. Not having tested one I cannot comment on performance but back to back testing would certainly be interesting.
Last edited by harvey; 08 August 2012 at 02:46 PM.
08 August 2012, 02:52 PM
#33
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Go on harvey do the honours of testing one.. as im pretty sure i need a new intercooler soon as im stuck at 600.. and was thinking gt2 untill i saw Matts Car with a gt2 on and it was struggling just as much..so i think we are both going rs500 next..pretty sure hes just sold his ic setup so should be doing it before me..
08 August 2012, 07:08 PM
#35
Interesting. Thanks for the link Banny. Is it tube and fin or bar and plate?
There are lots of things that can be done to improve the intercooler performance but until I have an installation in front of me I cannot tell you exactly what that would be.
Regardless of which intercooler you use it is worth lagging the cold pipe from the core outlet to the throttle body to ensure that the cold air remains cold but generally the compressor discharge pipe remains unlagged as it is losing heat all the way to the the core. It also helps to blank off any apertures at the front of the car to prevent air going round the side of the intercooler as opposed to being forced to go through the core. There is no point having a massive core if a large percentage of the area is not subject to air flow. Bends should be as shallow as possible and radiused without sharp edges and avoid 180 degree bends.
At present I don't have a need for an intercooler other than the GT2 Classic which does everything I want but on a diesel application I am about to try a GT2 Classic in place of the GT, both tube and fin just to see what happens but I suspect there are bigger gains to be made from just improving air flow to the core and some insualtion in the right places with a slight alteration to the pipe work and that may be more important than changing the core.
On the other hand if someone wants to loan me an RS500 I can do the testing which is quite time consuming and would involve air charge temperatures measured over ambient temperature and pressure drop across the core. This would be subject to the core fitting an existing installation running a GT tube and fin. I would pay for the dyno time and anybody wanting to see both cores in operation would be welcome.
Could be very interesting.
There are lots of things that can be done to improve the intercooler performance but until I have an installation in front of me I cannot tell you exactly what that would be.
Regardless of which intercooler you use it is worth lagging the cold pipe from the core outlet to the throttle body to ensure that the cold air remains cold but generally the compressor discharge pipe remains unlagged as it is losing heat all the way to the the core. It also helps to blank off any apertures at the front of the car to prevent air going round the side of the intercooler as opposed to being forced to go through the core. There is no point having a massive core if a large percentage of the area is not subject to air flow. Bends should be as shallow as possible and radiused without sharp edges and avoid 180 degree bends.
At present I don't have a need for an intercooler other than the GT2 Classic which does everything I want but on a diesel application I am about to try a GT2 Classic in place of the GT, both tube and fin just to see what happens but I suspect there are bigger gains to be made from just improving air flow to the core and some insualtion in the right places with a slight alteration to the pipe work and that may be more important than changing the core.
On the other hand if someone wants to loan me an RS500 I can do the testing which is quite time consuming and would involve air charge temperatures measured over ambient temperature and pressure drop across the core. This would be subject to the core fitting an existing installation running a GT tube and fin. I would pay for the dyno time and anybody wanting to see both cores in operation would be welcome.
Could be very interesting.
18 August 2012, 01:51 PM
#38
Here are some photographs showing both the latest New Age and Classic cores.
The New Age core is 575 x 200 x 94 thick. 13 row.
It is 730 - 650 mm wide and an overall height 220m.
The Classic core is 560 x 270 x 80mm thick. 16 row.
It is 720 - 630 wide and total height 290 mm.
I would assume that if you were prepared to fit a non standard core on a big power application the Classic GT2 core would be the one to go for but I also believe that both cores will handle 700 bhp without dificulty providing attention is paid to the air flow to the core and through the core to the radiator.
The New Age core is 575 x 200 x 94 thick. 13 row.
It is 730 - 650 mm wide and an overall height 220m.
The Classic core is 560 x 270 x 80mm thick. 16 row.
It is 720 - 630 wide and total height 290 mm.
I would assume that if you were prepared to fit a non standard core on a big power application the Classic GT2 core would be the one to go for but I also believe that both cores will handle 700 bhp without dificulty providing attention is paid to the air flow to the core and through the core to the radiator.
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