How far to push
17 July 2012, 05:44 PM
#33
im running a v3 type r box ,sti 3 standard engine ,simtec,gt spec headers,harvey up pipe,3 inch exhaust,rcm filter,fmic ,bigger injectors,fpr running 380 we stopped there due to a lil clutch slip never done it since. not a problem i got 53k on clock and i dont not put my foot down and has had a few launches. I think there to many people that have had a bad experience then come on here saying how they blow up at 330 ect.
17 July 2012, 06:38 PM
#34
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im running a v3 type r box ,sti 3 standard engine ,simtec,gt spec headers,harvey up pipe,3 inch exhaust,rcm filter,fmic ,bigger injectors,fpr running 380 we stopped there due to a lil clutch slip never done it since. not a problem i got 53k on clock and i dont not put my foot down and has had a few launches. I think there to many people that have had a bad experience then come on here saying how they blow up at 330 ect.
Usually for a reason
There are the odd engines and boxes that last the course but when a respected mapper like Bob Rawle (in my case) says 350bhp/350lbft is safe, I tend to take that advice
(That's on my MY99 UK Wagon where I'm happy enough with the power figures and early boost off the TD04) Some people are in the situation (say like 99GW is) where if their gearbox goes at their power levels, they have the ££ readies to pop a freshly built or reconned unit in. I haven't got the luxury of that moolah so don't/won't stress my components to the higher elchions.
17 July 2012, 07:39 PM
#39
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Car was mapped before I bought it. Put it on rollers i've always used and trust and it's running very rich. Simon from JGM is re-mapping it for me on known rollers on 30th August after his hols. Hoping for circa 380bhp too as my spec is almost the same as sonic93.
18 July 2012, 08:00 PM
#40
This is not a standard V4 UK or WRX. This is an STi 4 as I understand it
The pistons are good to well over 400 bhp. The rods will do 400 bhp plus a small margin possibly but will give up before the pistons. This assumes an engine in good condition, well maintained and driven intelligently.
TY754 gearboxes are good to over 400 bhp driven intelligently and the TY754 that was in my STi 6 Wagon was run over 500 bhp with a number of quarter mile starts at Elvington. That gearbox is now in my 95 WRX over 450 bhp and the only thing that has been changed in the life of the gearbox is the centre viscuous diff.
The TY754 has a stronger casing and on the STi models it may have wider gear wheels. The TY752 has a less rigid casing and will break in time at 350 bhp. I guess the 754 will break in time at the level I am running but that has not happened so far on this box.
The AFP turbo for sale by Green Wagon will be a good turbo for this setup making over 380 bhp if it is in good condition as will one of mine, both with full supporting mods on road fuel. Add another 10% or slightly less to the power figure for a 20% methanol mix.
As with anything, if you are a boy racer, regularly drive foot to the floor and specialise in traffic light grand prixs ignore all the above as it does not apply to you.
The pistons are good to well over 400 bhp. The rods will do 400 bhp plus a small margin possibly but will give up before the pistons. This assumes an engine in good condition, well maintained and driven intelligently.
TY754 gearboxes are good to over 400 bhp driven intelligently and the TY754 that was in my STi 6 Wagon was run over 500 bhp with a number of quarter mile starts at Elvington. That gearbox is now in my 95 WRX over 450 bhp and the only thing that has been changed in the life of the gearbox is the centre viscuous diff.
The TY754 has a stronger casing and on the STi models it may have wider gear wheels. The TY752 has a less rigid casing and will break in time at 350 bhp. I guess the 754 will break in time at the level I am running but that has not happened so far on this box.
The AFP turbo for sale by Green Wagon will be a good turbo for this setup making over 380 bhp if it is in good condition as will one of mine, both with full supporting mods on road fuel. Add another 10% or slightly less to the power figure for a 20% methanol mix.
As with anything, if you are a boy racer, regularly drive foot to the floor and specialise in traffic light grand prixs ignore all the above as it does not apply to you.
18 July 2012, 08:12 PM
#41
It's like most things, just because one or two cars run that power (for x amount of time) does not mean they all can. For every one that does I can bet my bottom dollar there's a 100 others that **** themselves well below that figure.
Fill your boots lads, I await the threads in the general technical..
"Harvey said my car could run 400+ but now it's dead"
I've said it before but I'll say it again, if you can afford to fix it then go for it, if not then tread carefully.
18 July 2012, 08:34 PM
#42
I hear you matty, but we all know cars usually **** themselves for other reasons than the pistons and rods exploding.
most are map,maf, fuel pump, turbo, and even dodgy fuel and the the ever present user error.
If you treat these cars the wrong way then they go bang, if your smart and sympathetic, then they are reliable and take some decent hammer but as harvey says if your a traffic light derby monster then none of what he said applies.
most are map,maf, fuel pump, turbo, and even dodgy fuel and the the ever present user error.
If you treat these cars the wrong way then they go bang, if your smart and sympathetic, then they are reliable and take some decent hammer but as harvey says if your a traffic light derby monster then none of what he said applies.
18 July 2012, 09:00 PM
#43
I respect your knowledge Harvey and genuinely take on board your comments but to say that a standard classic STI motor will run happily at 400+ is madness.
It's like most things, just because one or two cars run that power (for x amount of time) does not mean they all can. For every one that does I can bet my bottom dollar there's a 100 others that **** themselves well below that figure.
Fill your boots lads, I await the threads in the general technical..
"Harvey said my car could run 400+ but now it's dead"
I've said it before but I'll say it again, if you can afford to fix it then go for it, if not then tread carefully.
It's like most things, just because one or two cars run that power (for x amount of time) does not mean they all can. For every one that does I can bet my bottom dollar there's a 100 others that **** themselves well below that figure.
Fill your boots lads, I await the threads in the general technical..
"Harvey said my car could run 400+ but now it's dead"
I've said it before but I'll say it again, if you can afford to fix it then go for it, if not then tread carefully.
matty,i think what harvey is trying to say is that it would cope(based on the condition) ie..brand new/very very low mileage,not imported and then ran on 98/95 octane for 2 years with 70k on the clock before trying for 400bhp.
mine went pop at 300bhp,spun a shell and done a bearing,this was during a road mapping session so i also know exactly where you are coming from and i personally would never advise trying to run that power through a v4 13/14 year old motor.
18 July 2012, 09:10 PM
#44
I hear you matty, but we all know cars usually **** themselves for other reasons than the pistons and rods exploding.
most are map,maf, fuel pump, turbo, and even dodgy fuel and the the ever present user error.
If you treat these cars the wrong way then they go bang, if your smart and sympathetic, then they are reliable and take some decent hammer but as harvey says if your a traffic light derby monster then none of what he said applies.
most are map,maf, fuel pump, turbo, and even dodgy fuel and the the ever present user error.
If you treat these cars the wrong way then they go bang, if your smart and sympathetic, then they are reliable and take some decent hammer but as harvey says if your a traffic light derby monster then none of what he said applies.
But 400+ with a standard 14 year old classic engine is pushing the boundaries in my personal opinion and tilting the balance over towards disaster instead of safety, regardless of user and or mapper. Unless you drive like a coffin dodger that is.
'You pays your monies you takes your chances' as they say, (or something like that)
18 July 2012, 09:15 PM
#45
Yea maybe, but who would do that ? It would still be a risk would it not, and if your going to build a new motor who on earth would use OE spec V4 parts if their target was 400+.
I see your point in theory but in reality it's dead in the water.
18 July 2012, 09:21 PM
#46
So if someone was to build a brand new engine with completely standard V4 internals it would be fine at 400+ ?
Yea maybe, but who would do that ? It would still be a risk would it not, and if your going to build a new motor who on earth would use OE spec V4 parts if their target was 400+.
I see your point in theory but in reality it's dead in the water.
Yea maybe, but who would do that ? It would still be a risk would it not, and if your going to build a new motor who on earth would use OE spec V4 parts if their target was 400+.
I see your point in theory but in reality it's dead in the water.
there are a few that are running this 380-400 bhp on oe motor but for me i would be seriously worried.
18 July 2012, 11:36 PM
#47
As with most things it's the luck of the draw, would i take the chance, No, mine went pop running standard power, and then again running 300bhp,so nowhere near 400.
gearbox ran 330 just fine, i won't be going over that sort of power on my type r , but thats because i like it like that, with standard suspension,gearbox and tyres, it's more fun, and i have a giant **** so don't feel the need to substitute it with bhp.
gearbox ran 330 just fine, i won't be going over that sort of power on my type r , but thats because i like it like that, with standard suspension,gearbox and tyres, it's more fun, and i have a giant **** so don't feel the need to substitute it with bhp.
18 July 2012, 11:57 PM
#48
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I respect your knowledge Harvey and genuinely take on board your comments but to say that a standard classic STI motor will run happily at 400+ is madness.
It's like most things, just because one or two cars run that power (for x amount of time) does not mean they all can. For every one that does I can bet my bottom dollar there's a 100 others that **** themselves well below that figure.
Fill your boots lads, I await the threads in the general technical..
"Harvey said my car could run 400+ but now it's dead"
I've said it before but I'll say it again, if you can afford to fix it then go for it, if not then tread carefully.
It's like most things, just because one or two cars run that power (for x amount of time) does not mean they all can. For every one that does I can bet my bottom dollar there's a 100 others that **** themselves well below that figure.
Fill your boots lads, I await the threads in the general technical..
"Harvey said my car could run 400+ but now it's dead"
I've said it before but I'll say it again, if you can afford to fix it then go for it, if not then tread carefully.
Love it, and they say the newbies are know it alls
Your opinions are not fact and Harvey's post is based on experience and from what I understand Harvey has lot's of it! You could completely forge a motor and tell someone it will handle 500bhp plus, doesn't mean they won't blow it up, sounds like you just got sucked in to all the crap that's spouted on here over and over and actually believe it, If you talking from experience of owning thousands of Imprezas or working on thousands and knowing why each one failed being able to pin point the exact cause then I withdraw this statement, I fail to believe that Imprezas are as crap as you make out, seems weird you own one but constantly tell people they are unreliable, uncapable cars unless you spend thousands on them ffs, this is just not true, everyones entitled to their opinions but your now trying to argue with people who really do know what they are talking about 
, absolutely love it
19 July 2012, 08:53 AM
#50
Love it, and they say the newbies are know it alls Your opinions are not fact and Harvey's post is based on experience and from what I understand Harvey has lot's of it! You could completely forge a motor and tell someone it will handle 500bhp plus, doesn't mean they won't blow it up, sounds like you just got sucked in to all the crap that's spouted on here over and over and actually believe it, If you talking from experience of owning thousands of Imprezas or working on thousands and knowing why each one failed being able to pin point the exact cause then I withdraw this statement, I fail to believe that Imprezas are as crap as you make out, seems weird you own one but constantly tell people they are unreliable, uncapable cars unless you spend thousands on them ffs, this is just not true, everyones entitled to their opinions but your now trying to argue with people who really do know what they are talking about , absolutely love it
Your opinions are not fact and Harvey's post is based on experience and from what I understand Harvey has lot's of it! You could completely forge a motor and tell someone it will handle 500bhp plus, doesn't mean they won't blow it up, sounds like you just got sucked in to all the crap that's spouted on here over and over and actually believe it, If you talking from experience of owning thousands of Imprezas or working on thousands and knowing why each one failed being able to pin point the exact cause then I withdraw this statement, I fail to believe that Imprezas are as crap as you make out, seems weird you own one but constantly tell people they are unreliable, uncapable cars unless you spend thousands on them ffs, this is just not true, everyones entitled to their opinions but your now trying to argue with people who really do know what they are talking about , absolutely love it You are a fool WildPikey who likes nothing more to argue on the interweb. I do not have the time, patience or need for it.
I do not need to get into a debate about if a standard engined classic can or can not run happily at over 400.
There are literally hundreds of owners who know they can't.
Find me 10 that have run sweetly at over 400 and I'll find you 50 that let go well below that figure
Last edited by MattyB1983; 19 July 2012 at 09:05 AM.
19 July 2012, 09:11 AM
#51
I respect your knowledge Harvey and genuinely take on board your comments but to say that a standard classic STI motor will run happily at 400+ is madness.
You believe what you want Matty. If you do not like my advice just ignore it. Same goes for everyone else. My advice is usually free, based on experience and if I do not know I do not comment and will say I do not know if asked. There are too many Scooby myths that are complete bunkum.
Madness? What is your direct experience on this matter?
I come on here from time to time to help people but if I am accused of madness............ I do have other things to get on with and have no need to share my hard earned knowledge and expose myself to accusations of madness.
1) I am not talking about
a standard classic STI motor
2) It is clear you are unaware of the differences between STi 3 and 4 pistons and say STi 5 and 6.
3) Ask people who build engines what their experience is on STi 3 and 4 compared to other STis. Scooby Clinic, Merlin from API etc. The practical guys who actually take these engines apart and put them back together.
Fill your boots lads, I await the threads in the general technical..
"Harvey said my car could run 400+ but now it's dead"
"Harvey said my car could run 400+ but now it's dead"
Ditchmeister #42 is correct. The failures I see are usually down to poor or irregular maintainance including the use of the wrong oil, no oil, infrequent oil and filter changes and so on. Fuel related, generally running weak for a number of reasons. A poor map, no map after a modification to the inlet tract especially when still running a MAF Sensor. (In my experience STi 3 and 4 MAF sensors are tough and fairly reliable, not so ver 5 + 6 cars) Fuel pump tired or unable to keep up with the power increase modification and continuing to run the car when it is obvious that the engine is unwell and not running correctly. Also driving the car flat out on 95 RON on older imports when steps have not been taken to protect the engine.
Add to this list poor rebuilds or use of poor components.
If you cannot afford to or cannot care about maintaining a Subaru properly best advice is not to buy one.
If you want to modify it then it has to be done properly, in the right order and ignore any of that and engine life is dramatically reduced and it will break in time. Sometimes far sooner than you expect.
So if someone was to build a brand new engine with completely standard V4 internals it would be fine at 400+ ?
Thankyou Wild Pikey and others.
19 July 2012, 12:55 PM
#54
I mine gets driven hard and mines fine . Banny has had a Sti 8 short block ,Sti 3 heads at 522 bhp for I think 10k sold as a running engine afterwards spose that can't be done either ? Af was racing with a 440 bhp ra running a standard v3 with no probs. Harvey's had a load of cars running impressive power on these engines. If you knew a bit about Harvey he's far more clued up on these cars than 90 % on this forum.
19 July 2012, 01:19 PM
#55
I mine gets driven hard and mines fine . Banny has had a Sti 8 short block ,Sti 3 heads at 522 bhp for I think 10k sold as a running engine afterwards spose that can't be done either ? Af was racing with a 440 bhp ra running a standard v3 with no probs. Harvey's had a load of cars running impressive power on these engines. If you knew a bit about Harvey he's far more clued up on these cars than 90 % on this forum.
There was a chap on here making 600 on a newage short motor, doesn't mean I'd consider pushing mine to that. If it was safe then the companies we spend thousands with having cars forged would be out of business.
I never said it couldn't be done as Harvey etc have proved it can, I was merely pointing out that not every car can handle that figure despite the love and care its owner gives. Regardless of what people put on this thread 400+ on standard classic STI motor is pushing the boundaries, that is fact.
Ofcourse Harvey knows far far more about these than I do and far more than most and I'm always open to learn something new.
So, what makes a STI 3/4 internals that much stronger than the other variants ?
