What are my options for a brake upgrade??
05 July 2012, 02:36 PM
#31
We only sell grooved discs NOW , I was the first to come out with a grooved and drilled discs about 20 years ago , as pads were not capable or running the temps pads do today , it wasn't so much of a problem , now with the better pads of today it is a problem , so we DROPPED drilled discs from our line.
These high end cars you speak of , I have one , a 2008 E92 M3 with drilled discs , guess what , it has cracks around the holes , and that is with a low spec pad , so its not nonsense , its very real.
Check out cars you will see on a track day with drilled discs , most of them will have cracks around the holes.
I don't even rate dimpled discs , as the dimples are small it doesn't take long for them to fill up with brake dust , and as they are to take the gas layer off the pads , if there is no room for the gas to go in , then they are not doing the job they are designed for.
My CNC machines will give me any finish I choose , and what I find works reliably , and choose to do to our discs , is grooved only.
These high end cars you speak of , I have one , a 2008 E92 M3 with drilled discs , guess what , it has cracks around the holes , and that is with a low spec pad , so its not nonsense , its very real.
Check out cars you will see on a track day with drilled discs , most of them will have cracks around the holes.
I don't even rate dimpled discs , as the dimples are small it doesn't take long for them to fill up with brake dust , and as they are to take the gas layer off the pads , if there is no room for the gas to go in , then they are not doing the job they are designed for.
My CNC machines will give me any finish I choose , and what I find works reliably , and choose to do to our discs , is grooved only.
05 July 2012, 02:45 PM
#32
Maybe you know something that companies that spend endless amounts of cash on R&D don't know. I suspect their R&D facilities have more than a spinning lathe and a CNC machine though. 
You should be rolling in royalties from your alleged drilled and grooved disc invention and not up to your eyeballs in metal swarf.
You should be rolling in royalties from your alleged drilled and grooved disc invention and not up to your eyeballs in metal swarf.
05 July 2012, 03:27 PM
#33
I half expected you to come out with some crappy remarks , and try and turn this from an adult conversation into one of your childish outbursts , I'm not going to get into an argument with you , again.
All these companies have a ' spinning lathe and CNC machines ' , that's what all items are made on , what do you have ?
Maybe you should ask PF why they don't offer a drilled disc ?? they offer mini grooves and dimpled , after all you keep saying about PF being the best of the best , or is it they don't want to be associated with drilled discs cracking
We have had customers send us 2 piece discs and bells in to copy the discs , drilled discs that have cracked , we have had some where we have removed the bells and the discs have actually fallen in half they have cracked that badly , we have never seen a grooved disc do that.
Have seen both AP and Brembo 2 piece drilled discs crack , along with all other makes , mine included when we used to do them , so i'm amazed that the comline discs you sell made in India have never cracked on you , thats amazing
All these companies have a ' spinning lathe and CNC machines ' , that's what all items are made on , what do you have ?
Maybe you should ask PF why they don't offer a drilled disc ?? they offer mini grooves and dimpled , after all you keep saying about PF being the best of the best , or is it they don't want to be associated with drilled discs cracking
We have had customers send us 2 piece discs and bells in to copy the discs , drilled discs that have cracked , we have had some where we have removed the bells and the discs have actually fallen in half they have cracked that badly , we have never seen a grooved disc do that.
Have seen both AP and Brembo 2 piece drilled discs crack , along with all other makes , mine included when we used to do them , so i'm amazed that the comline discs you sell made in India have never cracked on you , thats amazing
Last edited by Godspeed Brakes; 05 July 2012 at 03:28 PM.
05 July 2012, 03:42 PM
#34
Most dealers that supply drilled disc on their high end cars are good for road use only and when tracked and then crack, then they blame your driving attitude and hope for you to replace them at a high cost, put money back into them for replacement parts.
I've had mates that have had drilled and they have certainly cracked!
That's my 2p worth on drilled discs, but then again it's how your wanting to use them.
I've had mates that have had drilled and they have certainly cracked!
That's my 2p worth on drilled discs, but then again it's how your wanting to use them.
05 July 2012, 03:48 PM
#35
Can't be that bad, how much do you spend with Comline again? 
I think companies like Brembo and PF have a little more than spinning lathes and cnc machines for the R&D, don't you think?
Did you even read my post properly? Clearly not from your response. I'm not backing drilled discs entirely, merely dismissing the usual scare mongering with reasoned explantations. After all, I did say all the disc types have their benefits, which is why we sell a wide range of discs and not just one type.
Maybe you should call PF and let them know that due to your "R&D" you have found their dimpled discs to not be good as wide aperture grooved discs as "the dimples fill up with brake dust". Maybe even sell them some of your designs as they don't seem to offer any grooved only discs and must be missing the point surely? I have to say, the PF dimpled discs on our car work a treat.
I think companies like Brembo and PF have a little more than spinning lathes and cnc machines for the R&D, don't you think?
Did you even read my post properly? Clearly not from your response. I'm not backing drilled discs entirely, merely dismissing the usual scare mongering with reasoned explantations. After all, I did say all the disc types have their benefits, which is why we sell a wide range of discs and not just one type.
Maybe you should call PF and let them know that due to your "R&D" you have found their dimpled discs to not be good as wide aperture grooved discs as "the dimples fill up with brake dust". Maybe even sell them some of your designs as they don't seem to offer any grooved only discs and must be missing the point surely? I have to say, the PF dimpled discs on our car work a treat.
05 July 2012, 03:51 PM
#37
Most dealers that supply drilled disc on their high end cars are good for road use only and when tracked and then crack, then they blame your driving attitude and hope for you to replace them at a high cost, put money back into them for replacement parts.
I've had mates that have had drilled and they have certainly cracked!
That's my 2p worth on drilled discs, but then again it's how your wanting to use them.
I've had mates that have had drilled and they have certainly cracked!
That's my 2p worth on drilled discs, but then again it's how your wanting to use them.
Exactly, different discs are good for different applications. For fast road use in our years of selling a wide range of discs drilled and grooved discs have not given issue.
For track use we recommend different discs and pads. That's why we don't do a "one type fits all"
05 July 2012, 03:54 PM
#38
The only benefit a drilled disc has to offer is light weight , which on a race car is a good thing , but then that comes at a cost of the discs cracking , so these discs will be changed probably every race , and sometime they won't make it to the end of a race as I have seen a few cars crash because of a drilled disc breaking up.
As a performance disc they are too unreliable .
As a performance disc they are too unreliable .
05 July 2012, 04:09 PM
#47
Yes if you fitted a mild performing pad then a drilled disc will dispurse the gases , but they would still fade with hard driving , so fitting a pad that will work at high temps then causes the discs to start cracking.
I cannot see the point of fitting a drilled disc to a car you want to perform , then fitting a soft pad to combat cracking issues , when a grooved disc will suit all driving styles , and can be fitted with any spec pad .
But even grooved discs have there limits , you do track days , or compete as I do rallying , then with pads that are capable of running high temps , you will see small heat cracks on the disc , usually these heat cracks stay small on a grooved disc , but will cause a drilled disc to crack more , usually cracking hole to hole.
My M3 discs have cracks running from the holes outwards , which is what happens to drilled discs , they are about 10mm long , they are still on the car at the mo but do need changing , and will be changed in the next couple of weeks when I have time , it's not bothering me at the moment as I hardly drive the car
I cannot see the point of fitting a drilled disc to a car you want to perform , then fitting a soft pad to combat cracking issues , when a grooved disc will suit all driving styles , and can be fitted with any spec pad .
But even grooved discs have there limits , you do track days , or compete as I do rallying , then with pads that are capable of running high temps , you will see small heat cracks on the disc , usually these heat cracks stay small on a grooved disc , but will cause a drilled disc to crack more , usually cracking hole to hole.
My M3 discs have cracks running from the holes outwards , which is what happens to drilled discs , they are about 10mm long , they are still on the car at the mo but do need changing , and will be changed in the next couple of weeks when I have time , it's not bothering me at the moment as I hardly drive the car
05 July 2012, 04:09 PM
#48
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Grooved, drilled, grooved and drilled... let's be honest, all overkill for normal road use.
The majority of people that buy them never use their brakes to the extent that would stress a drilled disc to the point of fracture or even to the point that the gas build up is detrimental or the pad really needs to be swept (and let's be honest, if you do actually need them on the road, you probably shouldn't be driving like that and should take it to a track day instead).
In "normal" road driving, all that grooved/drilled discs do is reduce the surface area of the disc in contact with the pad, thereby actually reducing the performance of the brakes (slightly). Even high performance pads on the road are a bit pointless as the brakes are genrally too cold to get the full benefit.
In all honesty, on a road car, it's all about the bling factor anyway and has very little to do with real performance gain. If you want drilled discs on a road car fine - just accept the fact that they are weaker and that they may crack but just because something can happen doesn't mean that it will. Ipso facto. Q.E.D.
The majority of people that buy them never use their brakes to the extent that would stress a drilled disc to the point of fracture or even to the point that the gas build up is detrimental or the pad really needs to be swept (and let's be honest, if you do actually need them on the road, you probably shouldn't be driving like that and should take it to a track day instead).
In "normal" road driving, all that grooved/drilled discs do is reduce the surface area of the disc in contact with the pad, thereby actually reducing the performance of the brakes (slightly). Even high performance pads on the road are a bit pointless as the brakes are genrally too cold to get the full benefit.
In all honesty, on a road car, it's all about the bling factor anyway and has very little to do with real performance gain. If you want drilled discs on a road car fine - just accept the fact that they are weaker and that they may crack but just because something can happen doesn't mean that it will. Ipso facto. Q.E.D.
Last edited by Gigsy; 05 July 2012 at 04:12 PM.
05 July 2012, 04:12 PM
#49
2 - grooved discs are as strong as plain discs if they are grooved properly
3 - Grooved discs will wear a standard pad out around 10% quicker that a plain disc , a grooved discs and a performance pad will give about the same life span as a standard disc and pad
05 July 2012, 04:16 PM
#50
Grooved, drilled, grooved and drilled... let's be honest, all overkill for normal road use.
The majority of people that buy them never use their brakes to the extent that would stress a drilled disc to the point of fracture or even to the point that the gas build up is detrimental or the pad really needs to be swept (and let's be honest, if you do actually need them on the road, you probably shouldn't be driving like that and should take it to a track day instead).
In "normal" road driving, all that grooved/drilled discs do is reduce the surface area of the disc in contact with the pad, thereby actually reducing the performance of the brakes (slightly). Even high performance pads on the road are a bit pointless as the brakes are genrally too cold to get the full benefit.
In all honesty, on a road car, it's all about the bling factor anyway and has very little to do with real performance gain. If you want drilled discs on a road car fine - just accept the fact that they are weaker and that they may crack but just because something can happen doesn't mean that it will. Ipso facto. Q.E.D.
The majority of people that buy them never use their brakes to the extent that would stress a drilled disc to the point of fracture or even to the point that the gas build up is detrimental or the pad really needs to be swept (and let's be honest, if you do actually need them on the road, you probably shouldn't be driving like that and should take it to a track day instead).
In "normal" road driving, all that grooved/drilled discs do is reduce the surface area of the disc in contact with the pad, thereby actually reducing the performance of the brakes (slightly). Even high performance pads on the road are a bit pointless as the brakes are genrally too cold to get the full benefit.
In all honesty, on a road car, it's all about the bling factor anyway and has very little to do with real performance gain. If you want drilled discs on a road car fine - just accept the fact that they are weaker and that they may crack but just because something can happen doesn't mean that it will. Ipso facto. Q.E.D.
I disagree , it doesn't take much to fade a standard braking system , you can do it towing a caravan down hill , so you don't have to be driving like a loon to do it , its all well and good saying if you fade brakes you shouldn't be on the road , but lets be honest , we all do it , as long as its the right time and place .
You might be in the wrong car and on the wrong forum thinking that
05 July 2012, 04:16 PM
#51
1. So either they do aid the dispersing of pad gasses or they don't.
2. How is that possible, by cutting grooves in a disc and removing material it will obviously weaken the disc? Yes, there is a point whereas one can reasonable remove x amount of material before causing a problem, but in terms of outright strength you can only weaken a disc by cutting parts out of it.
3. So grooved discs do wear out pads faster than plain discs. Glad that's agreed.
2. How is that possible, by cutting grooves in a disc and removing material it will obviously weaken the disc? Yes, there is a point whereas one can reasonable remove x amount of material before causing a problem, but in terms of outright strength you can only weaken a disc by cutting parts out of it.
3. So grooved discs do wear out pads faster than plain discs. Glad that's agreed.
05 July 2012, 04:27 PM
#53
1- read my full take on drilled discs , not just the bit you want to hear.
2 - if a disc is grooved properly , there is no proof that it is weaker , you will weaken a disc if the grooves break through to outside diameter of the disc as this can cause premature warping of a disc , but otherwise we have have seen no proof of grooved discs being weaker.
3 - yes grooved discs will wear out pads quicker than a plain disc , up to 10% quicker in extreme cases
2 - if a disc is grooved properly , there is no proof that it is weaker , you will weaken a disc if the grooves break through to outside diameter of the disc as this can cause premature warping of a disc , but otherwise we have have seen no proof of grooved discs being weaker.
3 - yes grooved discs will wear out pads quicker than a plain disc , up to 10% quicker in extreme cases
05 July 2012, 04:43 PM
#56
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I disagree , it doesn't take much to fade a standard braking system , you can do it towing a caravan down hill , so you don't have to be driving like a loon to do it , its all well and good saying if you fade brakes you shouldn't be on the road , but lets be honest , we all do it , as long as its the right time and place .
You might be in the wrong car and on the wrong forum thinking that
You might be in the wrong car and on the wrong forum thinking that
Anyway, my point is more that most of the time we spend on the road, we're not suffering from brake fade and the stock system is generally OK. Therefore, for the majority of people that buy "performance" brakes, it's not really about performance, it's about bling so the why's and wherefores of drilled vs grooved is a bit of a mute point IMHO (and dare I say it, in a lot of cases, a couple of lessons in how to use the brakes properly is often a much better upgrade than the brakes themselves
).As for caravans
Last edited by Gigsy; 05 July 2012 at 04:47 PM. Reason: typo
05 July 2012, 07:21 PM
#57
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besides grooved and drilled look great and i'm a tart
