Muslim question
09 June 2012, 08:54 AM
#61
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i spent time in oman when i was younger as my grandad was on the sultans royal yacht and same as above when on their own they used to love a fry up or a pint (we were in a huge compound that was for the british.i think some musims over here take the **** big time and just like to cause trouble and stand out.
09 June 2012, 08:57 AM
#62
Yes thanks 
So you can understand why my religion is more important to me than someone else's cultural norm 
Nice idea, it is great to see some people look at both sides of the situation and consider it rationally. Unlike others who see "Muslim" and have made their mind up already 
Nice When is your animal getting released down the strip?
So you can understand why my religion is more important to me than someone else's cultural norm i also have also not shook a womens hand in many years at work. best way about it is to explain or just walk int he room with a tissue, ive noticed whether you have a cold or not they dont tend to put their hand out to shake your hand anyway. and no one gets offended to it.
the above is also a good alternative, i quite like that idea and may use it in future, a gift to make it forgotten
the above is also a good alternative, i quite like that idea and may use it in future, a gift to make it forgotten
When is your animal getting released down the strip?
09 June 2012, 09:09 AM
#63
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Yes thanks So you can understand why my religion is more important to me than someone else's cultural norm
Nice idea, it is great to see some people look at both sides of the situation and consider it rationally. Unlike others who see "Muslim" and have made their mind up already
Nice When is your animal getting released down the strip?
So you can understand why my religion is more important to me than someone else's cultural norm Nice idea, it is great to see some people look at both sides of the situation and consider it rationally. Unlike others who see "Muslim" and have made their mind up already
Nice
When is your animal getting released down the strip?
09 June 2012, 09:14 AM
#64
As mentioned already, it is forbidden in Islaam for opposite sexes to touch each other unless they are related. It is not a "sexist" thing, I may not shake a women's hand but may show her more respect and equality than someone else who does.
Your little "" at the end does nothing to soften the harshness and intolerance of your post. Is having a bacon and sausage fry up not a cultural norm here? Does the Jewish person have to eat up or go back? You clearly don't accept my belief as you say, and shaking hands is not a "belief" of yours, it is merely a "cultural norm" as already mentioned by Tony. 
I hope you can consider the matter a little more and maybe soften your views
" at the end does nothing to soften the harshness and intolerance of your post. Is having a bacon and sausage fry up not a cultural norm here? Does the Jewish person have to eat up or go back? You clearly don't accept my belief as you say, and shaking hands is not a "belief" of yours, it is merely a "cultural norm" as already mentioned by Tony. I hope you can consider the matter a little more and maybe soften your views
09 June 2012, 09:28 AM
#66
the way i see it its nothing to do with being sexist,racist or religion. quite simply hes not doing his job properly. its part of his job obviously and hes not performing as required in that respect. so as his boss i would take him aside and make him aware of the situation, the offence it caused and the reasons why and the need to discuss a way forward to resolve it such as the idea of a small gift or perhaps a small explanation at meet and greet time and a slight nod forward or bow towards the person with a friendly smile and hand over a company trinket of some sort? notepad or keyring or similar. the guy should be intelligent enough to accept his beliefs may be misconstrued and you can work a way forward without it needing to become a "race or religous issue" which it isnt anyway.
09 June 2012, 09:35 AM
#67
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What the guy did would be standard practise in Saudi, although it's also a bit of a moot point since women are basically banned from the business world there.
The obvious problem then is that he isn't in Saudi, so I suggest you forward him this link, and have a whip-round in the office to sponsor his trip
The obvious problem then is that he isn't in Saudi, so I suggest you forward him this link, and have a whip-round in the office to sponsor his trip
Last edited by JTaylor; 09 June 2012 at 09:53 AM.
09 June 2012, 09:36 AM
#68
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09 June 2012, 09:42 AM
#69
Some Muslims are very weak in their belief.
Last edited by AbbasSTI; 09 June 2012 at 09:49 AM.
09 June 2012, 10:12 AM
#71
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I'm with some of the above comments if I go to Japan I would bow to the natives out of respect, when in Rome and all!
Originally Posted by tony de wonderful
"You do realise this is just an archaic cultural norm?"
AbbassSTI "Yes thanks So you can understand why my religion is more important to me than someone else's cultural norm"
Is this where the problem lies? We as the natives are all welcoming and accept other cultures with open arms and change accordingly as to not offend but the above comment seems to me as if it's a one way street.
Originally Posted by tony de wonderful
"You do realise this is just an archaic cultural norm?"
AbbassSTI "Yes thanks So you can understand why my religion is more important to me than someone else's cultural norm"
Is this where the problem lies? We as the natives are all welcoming and accept other cultures with open arms and change accordingly as to not offend but the above comment seems to me as if it's a one way street.
09 June 2012, 10:24 AM
#73
I'm with some of the above comments if I go to Japan I would bow to the natives out of respect, when in Rome and all!
Originally Posted by tony de wonderful
"You do realise this is just an archaic cultural norm?"
AbbassSTI "Yes thanks So you can understand why my religion is more important to me than someone else's cultural norm"
Is this where the problem lies? We as the natives are all welcoming and accept other cultures with open arms and change accordingly as to not offend but the above comment seems to me as if it's a one way street.
Originally Posted by tony de wonderful
"You do realise this is just an archaic cultural norm?"
AbbassSTI "Yes thanks So you can understand why my religion is more important to me than someone else's cultural norm"
Is this where the problem lies? We as the natives are all welcoming and accept other cultures with open arms and change accordingly as to not offend but the above comment seems to me as if it's a one way street.
09 June 2012, 10:25 AM
#74
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I also have not shook a female hand for many years 
There is no difference of opinion on this in Islaam. It is forbidden & rejected. When the situation arises, I explain that it is forbidden in Islaam to touch a female who is not a relation & we Muslims suffice ourselves with what is legislated for us, in other words, verbal greetings such as "Hello! Nice to meet you" I don't think this has ever caused me to loose any business, or left the the lady who was left hanging feeling that I'm a "sexist" 
There is no difference of opinion on this in Islaam. It is forbidden & rejected. When the situation arises, I explain that it is forbidden in Islaam to touch a female who is not a relation & we Muslims suffice ourselves with what is legislated for us, in other words, verbal greetings such as "Hello! Nice to meet you
" I don't think this has ever caused me to loose any business, or left the the lady who was left hanging feeling that I'm a "sexist" TX.
09 June 2012, 10:41 AM
#76
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It is quite difficult to explain, as there many surrounding principles which should be understood first. In a nutshell, I would say men and women are a test and trial for each other. The soul naturally inclines towards following our lowly desires. Our religion forbids us from this and we try our best to restrain ourselves. Logic behind any of the legislation is from Allaah, the All Wise. Our minds may not fully comprehend the wisdom behind something, but a believer believes and fears His punishment & hopes for His reward.
Some Muslims are very weak in their belief.
Some Muslims are very weak in their belief.
In business it is the norm to shake hands. I personally would be very offended if someone, no matter who they were, refused. It would be very rude to a high powered business woman to be snubbed , as this is how it would appear, because of religion
I have no problem with peoples beliefs but in some areas it really should be put on the back burner.
09 June 2012, 10:42 AM
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09 June 2012, 10:48 AM
#78
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No it's an archaic desert cultural norms which was incorporated into Islam by whoever wrote the Koran (I'm assuming the forbidding of male-female physical contact is on the Koran and not the Hadiths?). In the desert women were kept hidden away men who were outside the tribe/family. They were a jealously guarded resource. This Patriarchal culture demanded men had complete control over the reproductive process.
It makes no sense to shift this norm into western society.
It makes no sense to shift this norm into western society.
09 June 2012, 10:51 AM
#79
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You seem to have missed the point completely. Take the pork and Jewish person analogy made earlier. Would you expect a Jew to compromise his religion for a cultural norm? He isn't having a fry up because of his religious beliefs not to be awkward or disrespect your culture.
If you refuse to shake a womans hand a) it is impolite b) it is a sexist snub basically saying you don't see her as a peer in the business world but someone defined by having filthy female sexual organs.
09 June 2012, 10:53 AM
#80
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You seem to have missed the point completely. Take the pork and Jewish person analogy made earlier. Would you expect a Jew to compromise his religion for a cultural norm? He isn't having a fry up because of his religious beliefs not to be awkward or disrespect your culture.
09 June 2012, 10:54 AM
#81
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Not eating pork doesn't effect anyone else except pig famers.
If you refuse to shake a womans hand a) it is impolite b) it is a sexist snub basically saying you don't see her as a peer in the business world but someone defined by having filthy female sexual organs.
If you refuse to shake a womans hand a) it is impolite b) it is a sexist snub basically saying you don't see her as a peer in the business world but someone defined by having filthy female sexual organs.
09 June 2012, 10:55 AM
#82
The group of muslims in Rochdale didnt shake any young girls hands...
They just drug them and sh@g them...
Wonder how that would go down in a business meeting?
Its all archaic nonsense.......And if im sure about one thing,its not "respect" for the women that causes muslims indifference to the opposite gender..
They just drug them and sh@g them...
Wonder how that would go down in a business meeting?
Its all archaic nonsense.......And if im sure about one thing,its not "respect" for the women that causes muslims indifference to the opposite gender..
The above have nothing to do with being Muslim/Christian/Catholic in fact quite the opposite and this is a great example, had they abided by this strict archaic belief of ours none of it would of happened. It's there to prevent things like that, but with any rule there going to be broken.
These rules and beliefs of ours are there for a reason and this particular rule is there not to be rude, but to protect the respect of women.
A lot of comment's such as "respect our beliefs or foook off" which is understandable.........,but foook off where this is also our country and like many including Abbas, I would die and fight for this country as long as it's not part taking in illegal wars over oil
09 June 2012, 10:57 AM
#83
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It's already been mentioned but the explanation & presenting with a gift (memory stick, pen etc.) is something we've done successfully at work over the years
09 June 2012, 11:01 AM
#84
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You don't actually have a reason for not shaking hands other than the fact that a religious text commands you not to do so.
09 June 2012, 11:03 AM
#85
Not a very good analogy though, is it? It's not rude to not eat pork products, but it is very rude, in the West, to decline a handshake because a person is a women. A better analogy would be to compare a women having the audacity to drive a motor vehicle in Riyadh - if a Westerner claimed the right to do this on the grounds that she'd inherited a liberal culture of equality and that she wished to express that right the Mutaween would come down very harshly.
A lot of you keep missing the point, our belief is not being rude it's there to show respect to women so why not understand it and move on.
My misses is a marketing exec and she has to shake the hand of many men, not being funny, but how many guys have scratched or loosened there ***** before going into a meeting
The thought of it is hanging, personally I would rather they just great her with a smile.
09 June 2012, 11:07 AM
#87
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You keep talking about 'respect' but the women you are alleging to respect here is nothing but a universal shell to you, not an individual human being. You are refusing to acknowledge that she may feel more respected if you shake her hand. Why not ask her first if shaking hands is ok with her? If she says no then so be it?
09 June 2012, 11:09 AM
#88
The reason behind it again, it's to prevent sexual thoughts and wrong doings.
Last edited by juggers; 09 June 2012 at 11:10 AM.
09 June 2012, 11:15 AM
#89
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09 June 2012, 11:15 AM
#90
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We shake hands to say "How do you do", we shake hands to seal a business deal. I doubt it would enter anyones head, certainly not mine, that we should not offer our hand just incase the person is a Muslim and it goes against their belief.
It does come across as a snub and if you had not enlightened me to your reasons as to why you will not shake hands with a woman, I would take it as a snub, as most women would.