Shaid

Iranians will blame everything on Israel. They are each others enemies. This part is to be expected. Trying to shift blame on Iran simply because it supply's weapons is #sigh

cster

Are they?
As far as I know, Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map - for reasons best understood by themselves.
Apart from this unfortunate issue, I don't really think the Israelis care about Iran one way or the other.

Shaid

Seriously, don't try feeding me anti Iran propaganda it really won't work. Iran has a lot of oil, we need some so all of a sudden Iran is a big scarry monster who is going to wipe the world out as soon as it gets some nukes.

Does this story not sound familiar? Seriously, do you not feel silly for hating Iran for no other reason than some story you read in a red top? Are you really unable to see what is really going on?

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

How is this sudden? I can remember my Grandad saying at the time of the first Gulf War that once the allies had gone through Iraq they should turn right and do Iran.

It's another bunch* of 'strictly religous' lying, corrupt, sexist, rascist etc etc gimps.

5t.

By which I mean the leadership of the place. I'm sure many people there are simply tryign to scratch out a meagre existence while their government goes on a ***** waving nuclear mission and spunks all the oil money on themselves. (Whilst being deeply religous of course)

JTaylor

More babble.

cster

And not pertinent to the post quoted.

Shaid

Well in that case maybe it's best left as a difference in opinion.

Wether they wave nuke ****** or not we are not the worlds police and should concentrate our efforts in sorting out our own country before we decide we should sort out others.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Or fact v fiction

Agree with you there. However, this thread started out as a bit of a "can't we do something" and as I said, damned if we do (interferring in the ME, killing civilians, trying to be the world police etc).

And damned if we don't (only care about the oil, How can we turn a blind eye? Why are we just standign by and letting civilians get killed etc).

Can't have it all ways.

5t.

Shaid

Indeed I speak fact and you believe twisted fiction

Nobody in the middle easy trusts us. They all see us as in it for ourselves. We could supply aid and maybe a few refugee camps that way however as soon as we decide to physically engage we will become the enemy from both sides. Everyone will think it's about oil and nobody will appreciate our efforts other than a few beduins saved along the way. Oh of course the mullahs will all of a sudden see it as a Jihad (which for some reason at the moment they don't!).

As you said damned if we do and damned if we don't.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

5t.

Leslie

No I haven't failed, but if you need further explanation it is a matter of degree which should have been easy enough to see from my post.

So you are prepared to stand there and watch while those people are murdered than!

The UN should produce a resolution to cover the prevention of Assad's present murderous actions. They were not prepared to do that for the attack on Iraq which was done because of the oil of course and Billy Liar allied us to the US for his own reasons.

You tell us then, is it right to stand by and watch those civilians being executed? I really cannot see why you are saying that there is no solution.

Les

David Lock

The thread started out as a genuine question asking what sort of people can slit the throats of kids in their own country. It developed, understandably, into a more open debate on what can we do about it.

I still don't know how people can do this and I never will.

FWIW I think there is sod all we can do about it. The UN are trying but even if they got Russian support any "invasion" would just start a civil war. Arming the rebels would result in the same thing.

I am tempted to conclude that the Russians are correct, hard as that may sound.


dl

JTaylor

You've absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'm out.

jef

iTrader: (13)

taylor, im interested in hearing your take please

just to hear others input or reasoning is helpful for me, atleast.

i really know very little of the situation, as the BBC seem to deem uk 5 year olds body dis-morphia a more pressing issue

Leslie

You are wise to retire from doing your best to decry my posts for your own personal reasons.

Les

JTaylor

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18914578

dpb

Democracy has polished off another few thousand then, with no end in sight

finalzero

I don't believe the majority are native on native crimes (but some are of a criminal background)...Just think, why would they do that to their own people however it is more likely the rebels, outside fighters and insurgents have committed these crimes as they have no empathy or sympathy for the Syrians, to them this is just work (and war).

cster

Why do you not believe this?
Repressive government with the odd major slaughter of the civilian population seems (unfortunately) to be the norm in this region.
Perhaps people just don't like living under dictatorships - mind you, when-ever they manage to get rid of one, they seem to like replacing it with another, so who can say?
Reminds me a little of a joke involving a frog and a scorpion crossing a river.

JTaylor

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mobile/iplayer/..._with_Dan_Snow

This provides a good insight for those who care.

dpb

Yep saw that. And the problem is nobody knows who a syrian really is including those that live there, it's a game about who's got the biggest gun

David Lock

Well I do care but couldn't open that link.......

But since this thread has come up again might I ask if folk support Cameron and, particularly, is he right to think about arming the rebels?

The world can be a horrible f,ucking place at times and I do find it depressing especially as there is so little that we can do which will actually help - aside from medical aid.


d

mrtheedge2u2

I personally dont think we should arm the rebels......

A couple of points always trouble me....

1) They always go on about how the "people" v the regime...how many Syrians actually wanted Assad gone???? How many people make a convincing argument for change? Is it half the population plus 1? If the only people who wanted Assad gone were the ones now fighting then that means the West have simply supported a mob and the vast majority have been punished in turn....

2) I am curious to see how it turns out if/when the FSA get in power. Will they turn on each other? The West want a an image of themselves but the largest force in the FSA have stated they want an Islamic state.....will this in turn lead to a massive pro-Hezbollah push????

And just for the record, I certainly don't think we should pay to rebuild that country! They destroyed it, let them pay for it!!

JTaylor

Sorry, David, it looks like it's a mobile only link. Perhaps someone could put a standard link up if this one doesn't work:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01rb2st

David Lock

Yeah that works - cheers.

A couple of weeks ago I listened to a programme about the British going into Syria in around 1840. They got obliterated by Syrian guile.

David

dpb

Well there goes the arms embargo, were up for shoving more weapons their way So we can ultimately benefit by selling them more weapons when they start to rebuild their country.

If there's anybody left..


Only the Russians seem to believe less weapons means less deaths.

mrtheedge2u2

TBH, and there are some on here will find this a disgraceful thing to say, but I don't care about the arms supply issue....the West supply the rebels and Russia etc supply Assad. The only thing I dont want is when it is all said and done is that they come saying 'we need 100 bn' to rebuild! You blew it up. You rebuild it!

Leslie

I can't help feeling that it is morally wrong for the military to be murdering innocent civilians. In such a case I feel that the UN should be protecting them.

Les

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

Do they?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22688894

I think they believe that keeping the current regime will mean less deaths.

David Lock

And just how should the UN do that?

The UN agencies can't even raise enough money to feed the kids that have fled over the borders.

dl