wrxyz

iTrader: (2)

as I said the worms are spilling out.....

bigballs

iTrader: (8)

I have a bugeye wagon wrx too.

What springs do you have and how did you find the ride quality?

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

I've had Prodrive and Tein springs on standard shocks.
I found the Tein's actually seem to give a better ride.

Sheepy Sean

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to hijack but does anyone know what spring rate the KW v1/v3s are offered with?

jura11

iTrader: (7)

KW using different rating of their springs as BC/Tein etc

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...0&postcount=10


All depends on your requirements,but usually KW V3 are great,if you are looking for more track orientated setup KW Clubsport will be mine choice

if you are thinking about the KW you will need too Camber plates

Have look on Nitron suspension,which are great like on track or road and price is almost as KW


Jura

Sheepy Sean

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Jura thats a really informative thread. I'll have a look at the Nitron suspension as well.

Cheers

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

For the people that says bc's are hard for road, has anyone tried the rm series as they Are designed to absorbe bumps more.

SloSTI

@jura11

Thank you for your kind reply. Yes I know BCs are big in UK and therefore also I was considering their purchase in past.
Hope I did not ruin anybody's business with my remark.
Later I came across Tegiwa’s add for Racing Logic and since there was no review to found at the time I just bought one set on impulse thinking those are Australian made. I want(ed) to (re)present this brand in my country.

Only latter I’ve learned that those are Taiwan made (which does not bother me really).
Recently I came across some pretty good Australian and European reviews about those all hinting about the fact that this brand and its quality is rather underrated mainly due the lack of relevant info and references.
What I could say from first hand is that manufacture and materials used are very good.

Only unknown in equation is their durability, but just today I’ve read in some Australian forum report of a guy who is running them (drifting) for 3 years now and he still did not manage to destroy them.

I saw few their issues ago that Japanese Performance magazine was installing RLs to their GC Impreza.
I wonder if they had any comment on those yet.

@Bobby_RStevens

Regarding spring rates.
Only recently I’ve learned that different coilovers require different spring rates to compliment their specs. There is no unique receipt for certain rates for certain car.
F.ex. Dutch AST coilovers which Iain Litchfield is using are having 5/3 rates whereas Ohlins are using 7/5 for GDB A-D and 6/4 for GDB E+.

So you could imagine my surprise when Luke from Tegiwa told me that RLs are coming with 7/5 rates as softest option for GDB. I was having my second thoughts about how I will stand normal commuting but then I’ve discovered reviews reporting about very smooth and compliant ride with RLs with such spring rates.

At the end it all boils down to what you want to do with your car. If you wanted just right amount of weight transfer and (consequently) good grip above all then you should bear with a bit harsher ride when going to work.

If your wife was frequent co-driver then you would go softer and lose 0,5s per round during the weekend.

Of course to stiff is never good, You lose a lot of traction going into extremes.


I still did not install RLs as my RB320 Bilsteins after 65.000 km are still in excellent shape according testing I did the other day.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

i found my bcs on soft setting are better than the original sti shocks.
very hard on hard setting but thats what the adjuster is for

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Classic or newage Tommy? On full soft my BR series literally bounced down the road and was ridiculous - I'd say nearly undriveable because it felt so arkward.
I'm afraid I'm firmly in the - too hard and not fit for purpose camp when it comes to BC's BR series on a newage. In comparison to WRX shocks and Prodrive springs it was nuts, far less compliant ride for a daily driver and on country B roads the BC's made the car thoroughly unpleasant to drive.
I've since driven the same roads down to Devon on the racing logics and the difference is, like Scooby Clinic say - night and day. I'd never go back.

Re comments on RM series - chalk and cheese mate - they're hugely more expensive as they use external reservoirs.
My 7/5 rate on my racing logics with all settings at middle is 10 better than the BC's were on any setting I tried on 5/4 springs. That's on a lardy newage.

Many people say they're great but me and a mate with a Hawkeye who still runs em think they're not well made enough to deal with the extra weight of a newage, and that's why they ride too hard.
My guess is that the racing logics were designed for newage and BC's for classics.

davedipster

I have BC's with 6/4 springs on my newage sti.
The ride and handling is far far better than the std KYB rubbish, 3 years later they are still performing without fault!

Well please, cheers Apex performance!

Dipster

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

newage sti, did you have the geometry set up again? mine has uprated arbs and roll bars and an antilift kit too, but it drives great.
not too harsh on bumpy roads at all.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Yep, I do my research when I buy stuff, and have owned these cars last 7 years (WRX bug first, then an STI blob). I've even written a few of the guides on here chap to try and help others.
With both my BC's and Racing Logics I had a 4 wheel laser alignment and geometry done immediately afterwards.

The WRX I had BC's on also had:
- Whiteline ALK
- Whiteline 22mm Front ARB on medium
- Whiteline 22mm Rear ARB on hard
- Front strut brace

It handled well but the damping was utter ****e in comparison to the standard shocks with Prodrive springs that they replaced (with 70,000 odd miles on em) in my opinion, and that was on 5/4 springs (which were *supposed* to be comparable to the ride on a newage WRX).

The thing is - one person's bumpy road is another person's normal road. In the west country, near my folks, the roads are full of cracks and potholes, and the BC's bashed and jarred over all of them.

On the BC's, I tried fully soft (bounced), fully hard (shook your fillings out), and medium (which was bearable, no better).
I even tried raising the ride height a little (even though I set it up to be the same drop as on the Prodrive springs), and no improvement.

Took my mate out with the Hawkeye who still runs BC's on Tuesday on a road he drives a lot and he couldn't believe the ride on my STI (RL's) was so good on coilovers.
Back to back, can't say fairer.

Seriously guys, until you've driven a car with both sets of these coilovers on, you seriously cannot appreciate how different they are in quality and ride.

Markyscoob

Oh dear.

BC on full soft is bouncing because the damping is not enough. You want three or four clicks off full soft to start with as a comfort setting!

I run the ER series, the RM is just an inverted shock, it's the ER that has external damping resevoirs.

I run 6/5 and am about to go 4/3 for winter- the seperate comp and rebound damping is really effective and I can fully transform the car with a few clicks plus play with ride height to feel the roll centre changes.

IOM roads are VERY bumpy and I ordered my ER with long travel and plush high speed damping- absolutely amazing after the standard crap- and having driven a BR series equipped WRX with 5/4 my car can replicate that or beat the ride with no problems.

Any coil over can be made to feel bad quite easily.That's why O.E. car makers don't make them adjustable!

SloSTI

Markyscoob,

would you please evaluate for me how big improvement are your BCs in comparation to OEM Kayabas in terms of cornering grip and a speed you can tackle the bends with.

Kind regards to IOM.

chet123

iTrader: (7)

The BC's you will find are alot harder ride to the standard setup. BC's will improve your ride height, cornering, handling and ride stability etc etc. They are worth every penny but be prepared for the hasher ride no doubt, which is what I found out. Its recommended that the rear damper adjustments be slightly low than the fronts but I havent changed mines so just leave them on 10 (from soft) all the way round.

Overall good product, makes a hugh difference, although can't compare with other brands such as TEIN or Prodrive setups as never experienced but I guess you are asking about the BC's specificially.

Good luck

wilbo

iTrader: (1)

I am going to get the HSD DT ones soon so once they are all fitted will post up some feedback, surprised more people haven't gone for them. Looked at the HSD HR ones but spring rates looked pretty hard for a daily.

SloSTI

Thank you for your input chet123.

As this debate has boiled down to compliance of ride with BC's and as harshness of the ride is no issue to me due most important thing for me being how coilovers improve contact of wheels with the road, I was asking Markyscoob about his impressions.
I am interested in how good BCs or similar quality coilovers are at this task.

bikesforme

I am just lost on what to buy for my classic now, i just wont a road coilovers has my car is used daily for the family, but must be better then standard and not cost a fortune to buy.

davedipster

BC's every day, they can't be that bad Roger Clark motorsport sell them!
To be serious the early units had shorter travel, and with newage cars they could sit on the bumpstops when soft springs (4 or 5) springs where used.
Actually by using a harder spring like 6 the ride would be better.

I would buy BC's m8

dipster

bikesforme

What spring rate would be best for road use, i was looking at the ones in the £600 range. Not sure what BC model you rate. Thanks

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

No more than 5/4 for the road mate. 4/3 if you're sensitive to ride quality!

Harder does not = better for the road!

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

No **** funnily enough I know.
I have to say I found that quite offensive given that you had no clue exactly how I had my car setup long term.
This was whilst experimenting with the car.
After installation I tried it full soft, full hard, 15 clicks from soft, 10 clicks from soft, 5 clicks from soft, etc etc.
Eventually I ended up going for about 10 clicks from soft on the front and 12 on the back. Softer compromised the handling and harder was unbearable as a daily driver.

So basically you're saying that your BC's were specially constructed for your requirements rather than being standard out of the box, AND they're not BR series which are the ones I'm talking about, and then you go on to say the standard BR series are crap!?. Maybe I've misinterpreted your comments as I thought you were being pro BR here for a minute!?

That's why the majority of car makers don't put coilovers on any cars at all Sadly the standard Subaru shocks are not much cop as we all know but I couldn't be bothered with installing grease nipples in my rear shocks and they knocked terribly.
I also think you could easily revise that statement to "any car could be made to handle badly if you fit the wrong suspension, springs, or don't have geo done, etc etc".

The fact that a business sells a product doesn't make it the best on the market for the price.
It's like me saying - Scoobyclinic sell Racing Logics so they must be good.
Similarly you could say Time Attack cars run BC's - but they're not the BR series which is what's being discussed here so it's no comparison.

If you want an honest opinion ask someone who's run more than one brand.

Mate, at the price you'll pay they'll all be much of a muchness. IMHO having had both BC's and RL's I'd say the latter appear better made - have photos of both installed.

Handling wise both are fine, although I'd say the BC's had more of a tendency to bounce than the RL's over undulations in the road as the damper appears slower to keep up (and I'll add regardless of what soft / hard setting is dialled in before I get jumped on again by the BC gang).

I must say I'm a little cheesed off being on the receiving end of so much grief and finger pointing here for offering what appears to be the only balanced opinion here between two sets of products.
The rest are mostly people banging on about how great BC's are, but what I'm surprised about is nobody's surfaced to talk about TEIN, Hotbits, Meister R's (although the latter are just re-branded BC's), etc.

You can shout until you're blue in the face that BC's are wonderful because they're on my car, but let's hear some honest views from people who have run BC's and have something else they can compare it to / ridden in someone's car with other brands.

I mean, if money's no object buy KW3's or Ohlins - but that's just what I hear.

SloSTI

Thanks Bugeye_Scoob,

as stated in my previous posts my Racing Logic are already waiting in my garage to be installed in the future.
Ohlins DFV or PCV (when available for GDB) would be tried as next option if I would still own a car at that time.

I was only sincerely curious if BC/D2/K-Sport damping settings in fact improve road contact.

BC gang , now thats funny . I am loughing loudly.

Are you sure TEIN are rebranded BCs? IIRC TEINS should be Japan made.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

No mate, Meister R's are re-branded BC's, you've just misinterpreted that sentence - tis why forums are not always the best place to have these conversations
There you go - updated to be bang on

If the brake kits are anything to go by, it's likely that the K-Sport and D2 offerings will be identical although I've never personally seen a set of either fitted to a Scoob so probably shouldn't comment

In terms of contact with the road, I'd say BC Vs RL - the RL's just take it for me, but the BC's would still be fine for track work etc - might even be better suited given how solid the ride is in comparison you'll probably get more feedback from them.
I'm running my RL's on 15 clicks from soft and found them so bang on that I didn't mess with them anymore, really happy and ride quality is similar to the STI shocks, much more so than my old BC's were.
I could try winding them down harder and see if they were better but as the car's my daily driver I think I'll leave that one until track day.

One other thing in the BC's favour is they come with rear adjuster extenders whereas the RL's don't, so tweaking them at the moment means back seat out - but I'm sure that could easily be remedied - Apex sell the extenders for £15 IIRC.

SloSTI

Sure , I see now, I missed the "latter" word.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Nah, in fairness you didn't - I added it after your comment - lol
Updated post above for a bit more info on my setup HTH

SloSTI

Regarding RL cliks I will go from Iain's AST suggestion 7/5 clicks (12 clicks max) for fast road which it would transform into aprox. 18/13 clicks with RL and theirs 32 clicks max setting.
For every day use he suggests 4 - 6/2 clicks, this again for AST.
His suggestion for height was 340/320 mm.

I would not need rear extenders as my rear seats are out permanently .

Thank you for info.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Sounds reasonable; I think Prodrive springs drop the height about 25mm so this is a slightly larger drop.

I'm also thinking about getting a roll centre adjustment kit to reduce roll following lowering the car. Will need geo again, but I tend to get this done once every 12 or 18 months anyway.
Something like this:
http://www.scoobyparts.co.uk/acatalo...O_RCA_KIT.html
or these as a cheaper alternative:
http://www.apexperformance.co.uk/cat...oducts_id=1861

CDF Racing

iTrader: (49)

If anyone is interested in kw's let me know and I will see if I can get a good deal as I know the uk owner well!

We don't normally sell other brands other than our own but I know kw's are very good and I won't have any problems with them

Chris